Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
The Courts Government Media Movies Patents News Your Rights Online

Copyright Extension In Australia 258

femto writes "The Motion Picture Association and APRA have commissioned a report from Allen Consulting into the effects of extending Australian copyright from life+50 years to life+70years. This forms the MPA and APRA's contribution to US-Australian free trade negotiations, currently underway. The report recommends that copyright terms should be extended. An extension of copyright would not be in Australia's interest. Some would argue that it is not in anyone's interest. Projects such as Project Gutenberg of Australia would be adversely affected by such an extension. Perhaps now is to time to write to your Member of Parliament, asking them to oppose any extension of copyright or patents, and shore up whatever resistance there is to an extension of IP in Australia?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Copyright Extension In Australia

Comments Filter:
  • Report link (Score:4, Funny)

    by Empiric ( 675968 ) * on Thursday October 23, 2003 @10:52PM (#7297454)
    Slashdotting a pdf on Allen Consulting's meager web server. Good move. Oh... good move!

    (For those soon to be unable to reach it, it's basically the template rent-a-stance enumeration of weak arguments against extension, followed by a refutation, followed by an enumeration of arguments for, and supporting arguments for each. Selective focus with input from Allen associate Mr. Straw Man.)
    • Re:Report link (Score:2, Informative)

      by herrvinny ( 698679 )
      Nonsense, here's a mirror: http://www.herrvinny.com/slash.pdf [herrvinny.com]

      Go ahead, I have 6 GB transfer, and it should hold up, or Hostway has explaining to do...

      By the way, I hate to be offtopic and all, but if people could visit herrvinny.com, I'm working on an open source voting program. I already have it with the capability to do write in, check multiple choices, instead of just one, etc. Anyone from UW Madison reading this, I'd like to talk to you about field testing this thing. Server edition should be availa
  • the other thing you lucky "sheriffs of Asia" get is alignment with US patent laws...

    • If deputy Sheriff Howard wants to align copyright with anything, wouldn't it be more logical to align it with patents e.g. 20 years?
      Bearing in mind the time value of money, this would not significantly affect the Net Present Value i.e. the business case of any project.
      It would have the opposite effect of driving innovation in arts in the same way that occurs in engineering/ medicine.
    • OK, why can't every one shut up about the sheriff thing. That is by no means the Australian attitude, nor is it even Bush's attitude. Bush simply meant to say that he does not consider Australia to be inferior to the US, he just messed it up in the delivery like he allways does.

      Bush just missunderestimated (sic) the impact that would have on Australia's neighbours. If leaders reacted in the same way every time bush said something stupid then we would have worldwide chaos.

      Most people all around the world k

  • Simple solution (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kris_J ( 10111 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @10:55PM (#7297471) Homepage Journal
    Don't make it retroactive. If it's really about encouraging new products, only make it apply to new products. Any extension to copyright lifespan shouldn't apply to anything created before the law is enacted.
    • by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:01PM (#7297499)
      yes good point.

      however I cynically suspect that this kind of sensible point of view has absolutely no place in politics these days, especially over anything relating to intellectual property or innovation.

      laws are made by companies with money. companies with money have already succeeded. the last thing companies that have succeeded want is innovation.
      • i think the real discussion here should not be about life+70 or life+50

        it should about how absurd life+anything really is.

        can't people see that the existence of widespread law breaking from copyright violation is a CLEAR signal that people do not see that the copyright contact is fair? it is so obviously not fair now that people blatantly and purposefully flaunt the laws.

        as I put into another post, below. 15 years should be plenty.

        • can't people see that the existence of widespread law breaking from copyright violation is a CLEAR signal that people do not see that the copyright contact is fair? it is so obviously not fair now that people blatantly and purposefully flaunt the laws.
          as I put into another post, below. 15 years should be plenty.


          Or maybe more radical changes to copyright are needed. Similar to the way in which the "Statute of Anne" fundermentally rewrote the concept.
    • by CosmeticLobotamy ( 155360 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:11PM (#7297527)
      Seventy years? Sweeeeet. I was thinking about writing a really, really, really, really, really great novel, but if it was only going to be profitable for fifty years after I die, I wasn't going to bother. But now! I guess I'll have to learn to spell, 'cause I got some novellin' to do.
    • Giving that all the corporations push this in to protect their existing materials, I doubt this is going to happen. Plus, think abut our grand-grand kids which will be stuck with ID4 and T3 as the best movies of public domain!
      • Giving that all the corporations push this in to protect their existing materials, I doubt this is going to happen.
        Well, quite. But I'd love to see how they, or better yet -- the government, justify retrospective copyright extension given that the original reason for the artificial structure or copyright is to encourage new products not to encourage people to create one thing then sit on their arses for the rest of their lives.
        • They will not justify it. Do you think they need to justify everything they do? They'll either:

          1. not respond
          2. Make up anything stupid.

          As usual. Don't hope too much from these guys.
        • But I'd love to see how they, or better yet -- the government, justify retrospective copyright extension given that the original reason for the artificial structure or copyright is to encourage new products not to encourage people to create one thing then sit on their arses for the rest of their lives.

          Retrospective extension cannot possibly encourage the creation of something which already exists in the first place. If something already exists then what ever incentives in terms of copyright term which exi
    • Re:Simple solution (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Kris_J ( 10111 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:06AM (#7297729) Homepage Journal
      Here's what I wrote to my MP:

      Dear Mr Wilkie,

      A report has recently been commissioned to discuss the issue of increasing the life of copyright from 50 years after the creator's death to 70 years after the creator's death.

      http://www.allenconsult.com.au/resources/M PA_Draft_final.pdf

      Leaving my personal views on the actions of major corporate bodies with significant Intellectual Property assets aside for the moment, I would like to make two points.

      The first is that copyright is supposed to encourage creation of new material. That's what the artificial structure called copyright is all about. The basic question behind the existence of copyright is "Why would people create something if everyone can just copy it?" Ignoring that people do readily create works for which copyright is applicable, yet still give freely to the public domain, I would just like to say that if any extension is made to the life of copyright I can find no way to justify retrospectively increasing the life of copyright on works that have already been created.

      My second point is that the reason for encouraging creation of works is to enrich the public domain, not line the pockets of big business. Government should always be on the side of the public domain and should be constantly striving for ways to bring more material into it, not less. As such, it is my belief that copyright should only exist on a work so long as the copyright owner actively maintains it. The most simple method of encouraging this it to require a token payment be made every, say, ten years to keep the copyright work registered in a central database. The payment need only pay for the upkeep involved in maintaining such a database. The result is that if any copyright work becomes abandoned, it enters the public domain before it becomes worthless.

      Please consider these opinions should any relevant vote come before parliament.

      Thank you for your time,

      Chris Johnson

      • by Anonymous Coward
        Your solution is terrible. Think, companies can afford to pay for something to be in the copyright register FOREVER. So it's a bad idea.

        I wish for works to be in the public domain 2 years after the ORIGINAL AUTHOR dies. And that's really it. This would seriously promote new material, as the copyright holders such as corporations would have to bring new things into market as soon as possible in order to make the most money.

        But even the 2-year span is too much. The best solution would be that the original a

        • My second point is not advocating endless copyright. I'm suggesting a token payment to signal active upkeep start from day one and be required every X years until the copyright runs out.
          • My second point is not advocating endless copyright. I'm suggesting a token payment to signal active upkeep start from day one and be required every X years until the copyright runs out.

            A token payment is unlikely to help much with "copyright squatting". Far better is a payment which rises exponentially.
        • I wish for works to be in the public domain 2 years after the ORIGINAL AUTHOR dies.

          What's so special about "author's life plus X" anyway? How did this concept get into copyright law in the first place...

          The best solution would be that the original author retains the copyright, but only LICENSES the work to publishers and others to sell and distribute for profit. That way the original author would be able to do whatever he pleases with his OWN work, including revoking a license from a publisher so that n
    • Re:Simple solution (Score:3, Interesting)

      by driptray ( 187357 )

      The report "addresses" this criticism. From the report:

      The most criticised element of copyright extension is that existing copyright owners will benefit from an additional 20 years copyright protection for works that already exist. The argument goes that term extension is designed to encourage the creation of new works, and that providing the extension to existing works is incompatible with copyright's incentive rational. The consequence will be a transfer from consumers t o copyright owners. While this

      • IOW, it's only a relatively small theft from the public domain, so don't worry about it.

        It's a very sneaky way of trying to make the loss look OK by giving it the value the transferee attaches to it rather than the value the transferor attaches. While the owners may be making a very small gain, the public is losing a considerable right to use old works. Considering the public is the one being asked to give up this advantage, isn't the more relevant point of view that of the public?

        Putting it another way,

  • by Coram ( 4712 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @10:58PM (#7297490)
    Ironic. Companies like Disney, which make their money by deriviting copyrighted material from out of copyright works, want to retain their own copyright for even longer.

    I will certainly be writing to my MP. Unfortunately as it is John Howard this won't make much difference.

    Sadly this is another example of policitians putting corporate needs before the greater good. Until corporations can have their leverage over politicians dissolved, this will always be the case.
    • Not only that but the heirs of the creator of Pooh Bear are sueing Disney for shortchanging them in royalties.

      Which franchise does Diney gets its most $$$ from? Not Mickey mouse or Donald Duck or any other Disney creation... it's Pooh.

      • Pooh (Score:3, Informative)

        IIRC it is the descendants of the agent (Slesinger) of the creator (A.A. Milne) that are suing, and the descendants of the creator are on Disney's side.

        It's partly about whether US video game royalties were included in the agent's contract (Pooh stories were written decades before video games were invented).

        I'm not a great fan of the heriditary system anyway - why should you inherit your ancestors book characters (copyright), or wealth (death taxes help) or Presidency/PM (USA, India)? Get a job yourself

    • by thogard ( 43403 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:06AM (#7297732) Homepage
      If your MP wants the extention, ask for a real extention.
      Life+200 years would mean the Grimm brothers familys could collect everything Disney ever made.

      If adding 20 years is good, then adding 150 should be even better right?
  • Eek!

    There is no public benefit to having copyright restrictions for such a long period of time. ..or if there is, would someone let me know what they are.
    • Well duh... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MacDork ( 560499 )
      So Walt Disney Corp can still sell Mickey exclusively and so that Time Warner can sue you [snopes.com] for singing 'Happy Birthday' of course. What? You don't see the point in that??
      • The Walt Disney Company may have already lost the copyright on Mickey Mouse [asu.edu] due to a faulty copyright notice.

        Snopes [snopes.com] seems to think "Happy Birthday to You" is still copyrighted and owned by Time Warner. But it may not be different enough [infoanarchy.org] from an earlier song called "Good Morning to All", whose U.S. copyright has already expired, to be considered a distinct work worthy of a separate copyright.

        • That article about Disney losing the copyright to Mickey Mouse is very interesting. Unless there are some other cases that alter the law differently, I'd agree with the author - Disney certainly appears to have lost the copyright to Mickey Mouse.

          On the other hand, I'd hate to be in court facing Disney's platoon of lawyers in a discussion about infringement...

    • Let me see your 'Eek!', and raise you a FUCK!

      I had hoped for better since Mr Luddite^WAlston got promoted sideways.

      I guess I didn't expect better, but I had hoped.
  • Just to eke out a few more dollars from that Yahoo Serious movie?
  • by KiwiEngineer ( 585036 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:05PM (#7297516) Journal
    Will an extra 20 years really make that much difference that movies will either be produced or not produced? If you can't enough make money in the first few years (and ideally the first year)of realease, why bother at all?

    How much (other than as much as their pockets can fit) money do they really have to make to justify their projects?
    • yes apparently most movies make their money back in the opening weekend or thereabaouts. which is why we had the story a while ago aboutt wanting to ban mobiles because they allow bad opinions to be spread too freely and interupt the PR machine.

      but so long as you have absolute control over something, even if you're not clever enough to do something profitable with it yourself, at least you can stop anyone else trying.

      if you can't raise yourself up, then keeping everyone else down is just as good.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I was not arguing for a socialist model at all, merely a reasonable appraisal that if a project is not going to make sufficient profit to justify its going ahead within 50 years, it is highly unlikely to generate that extra money in the final 20 years.
        • I was not arguing for a socialist model at all, merely a reasonable appraisal that if a project is not going to make sufficient profit to justify its going ahead within 50 years, it is highly unlikely to generate that extra money in the final 20 years.

          In how many cases is the possibility of a 50-70 year long monopoly going to be at all relevent. Even contracts for managment of buildings rarely last that long. A company renting office space or charging bridge tolls has a reasonable chance of continuing inc
      • "I totally agree with you, in fact I think that we should just take all the money from society and distribute it equally to every person, regardless of contribution."

        Well, what they're doing right now is taking money from society and distributing it to copyright holders (even if we aren't buying a copyrighted product - like with the tax on blank tapes), and suing people and/or threatening jail time for having certain bit patterns of music data on their hard drive, or just for reading the data they paid fo
    • How much (other than as much as their pockets can fit) money do they really have to make to justify their projects?

      You don't understand how these people think. They don't care how much money can fit in their pockets. They know they can allways buy bigger pockets. That alone is justification enough for them.

      Enough ranting. I'll shut up now.

    • Very simple: Because big studios have discovered that they can make a lot of money off derivative works, re-releases, remakes and so on. Especially now that they can release digitally enhanced special editions and DVDs. That's a lot of money for not much work. Far more profit that would have been gained from buying a few politicians.

      Watch out next year for the feature blockbuster Flowers and Trees vs Steamboat Willie.

    • If you can't enough make money in the first few years (and ideally the first year)of realease, why bother at all?

      This is an excellent point. Movies which have not already made a large chunk of money in the first life+50 years aren't going to suddenly going to turn into cash cows in the next 20 years after that.

      However, there are cases where movies which were never popularized under copyright flourish after the copyrights expire. The classic example of this is, of course, "It's A Wonderful Life [imdb.com]". Al

      • If only more people understood this, we might have more reasonable copyright laws. Copyright laws exist because without them, few people would bother to make (in this case) movies. As a society, we have more movies to choose from because of copyright law. The longer the copyright term, the more incentive there is. However, a longer copyright term also makes it harder to access older movies, discourages derivative works, and does little to encourage production. So there's a tradeoff. One week is too sh
    • My guess is that they think that the more good free movies are out there the less their copyrighted stuff will be worth. They probably feel that ANYTHING that makes them more money is good for the public because it gives them the capital to create more new movies.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The freight train of hysteria's due to run this topic down, but I'm gonna try anyways: The US extended its copyright laws to match those of the EU. No, we were not _compelled_ to match their IP laws, but if you want to lay the burden at someone's door, it belongs to a door in Belgium, not Washington, DC.
    • I think most people are more of the opinion that this is just plain stupid regardless of country of origin anyway
    • So why does the US have to match the EU instead of the other way around? If somebody is going to change to match another, why does it have to be that the change is made to match the one with the longer copyright term? If a country has a 1000 year term, does that mean the US has to have 1000 years too? The burden is at America's door, no one else. There really is no compelling reason to go for anything longer than what is provided under the Berne convention. Unless of course, you consider campaign contr
  • copyrights would actually create a Balanced contract between composition, profits vs. public good.

    life of the author plus 50 is already absurd.

    how about, say 15 years? That sounds good to me.

    10?

    • Re:in my world... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by silentbozo ( 542534 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:46PM (#7297666) Journal
      I think you should be guaranteed 20 yrs, and anything after that (up to life of creator, or 100 years for a corporation, whichever comes first) would be fine as long as:

      1. The owner pays for continual upkeep and maintenance on a pristine "master copy." This mean recopying it, restoring it, digitizing it, or transcribing to new media/formats as necessary to guarantee that a usable copy is available at the end of the copyright term. This also includes storage costs for the Library of Congress (or equivalent body in country where copyright is being extended.)

      2. For every year beyond the minimum, compulsory licensing must be made available if there are no publicly purchasable copies of the work. For example, if Vol 1, Issue 9 of Comic X is out of print, and the publisher wants to hold on to the copyright, they must make that material available for sale (ie, via a digital download, on-demand copy, graphic novel or other compendium) or else be subject to compulsory licensing of the work. This ensures that copies of the work are publicly available (even if they have to be extremely expensive.) None of that stop selling for X years to build up demand crap that Disney pulls.

      Why these conditions? To make sure that the material is available to the public, and if the owner doesn't want to pay for the master copy (to ensure that the work is accessible after the copyright expires) then the copyright expires right there and then, and if people think it has value, they will copy/distribute it and preserve it that way.

      For an example of where this is happening, some copy-protected programs/games from the 80's are no longer available from the original owners (no master copies exist.) The copyright has yet to expire, but even if it did, there are no master copies exist for people to copy and examine. However, there are collectors (ie, pirates) who might have broken the copy protection, archived those copies, and have kept copying them to new media (5 1/4 floppy -> 3.5 floppy -> hard drives -> CD-Roms -> DVD, etc.) This is moot without the hardware to run this stuff, so enter emulators to run the software.

      Thus, an item that had value was maintained by the copying of collectors even when the original owner lapsed in their duty to preserve that original. Ironically, this behavior, preservation of a public good (which it would have been, once the copyright lapsed), is illegal under the DMCA. What a way to erase cultural history and hundreds of man-hours of creative work in the name of profit and greed.
      • Actually that could be a great case for Lessing's next argument! If a "copyright" holder can't produce a valid, reproducable copy of a given work like in your example, they we should get the courts to rule against them. They weren't interested enough to KEEP it available...and obviously YOU can't give them a copy, can you! What about rare books or phonographs too. Another example would be Star Wars. The original archive was in such bad shape that the digital remaster was necessary to clean it up enough
  • Fuck the FTA (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    the USA wants Australia to take away the Pharmacudical Benifits Scheme (PBS). PBS gives millions of Australians access to cheap medication. I am a diabetic, and if PBS is taken away, I will have to pay $500 or so a month for my meds.

    Fuck The Corporate Scumbags and there Free Trade.
    • I'm with you on that one. My wife has ME (that's Chronic Fatigue, not a reference to her husband) and needs a truckload of medication just to keep going. Most of it is PBS. If that were taken away we would have a hard time surviving.
  • Just wondering... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Joel Carr ( 693662 )
    While we're on the topic of IP, Patents and Australia, does anyone know what Australia's position on software patents are? Just wondering because it's something that may become important for me to know, but yet I have no idea about it...

    Better yet, does anyone know of a comprehensive online listing of which countries have software patents, and what exactly can be patented in each country? I was unable to find such a list, but I'm sure there must be one.

    ---
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:20PM (#7297556)
    The original justification for the length of copyrights, to keep them long enough to make money, no longer exists because of the rapid transmital and sales possible by current technology. IE a 100 years ago, it could have taken awhile to start amassing sales world wide. Today, distribution is possible worldwide immediatly. Copyrights should be *shortened* in todays climate. It borders on insanity (or an unrighteous desire for monopoly) to wish to extend them in this climate.
  • by HermesT ( 694672 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:22PM (#7297563) Journal
    The way I see it copy right term extension is transference of public property into private hands without payment being rendered in return. What has Disney --and all those companies that have successfully lobbied for longer copyright durations-- given back to the public in return? Nothing. That's right. They got what was to be public property for free and gave the public *nothing* in return. Its corporate welfare and its theft.
  • A side-effect (Score:4, Interesting)

    by The Munger ( 695154 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:35PM (#7297611) Homepage
    Slightly offtopic, but one bizarre thing a free trade agreement with the US would mean for Australia, is more US television content. There are currently laws in place that mean television broadcasters must allocate a certain amount of hours to Australian content. It's much cheaper to buy television content than it is to make it, so the broadcasters are well and truly in favour of it. Many consumers feel that we get too much US content as it is without opening the flood gates.

    There are many ways a free-trade agreement would benefit Australia as well. As a largely primary producer, the subsidies the US government give its wheat producers price Australia out of the market. No-one has managed to convince me either way that such an agreement would work out better or worse for Australia. I certainly can't see any benefit for the US. Obviously, things will change (some for better and some for worse) for both parties. But is it truly worthwhile for either?
    • Re:A side-effect (Score:4, Informative)

      by tqft ( 619476 ) <ianburrows_au @ y a hoo.com> on Friday October 24, 2003 @02:03AM (#7298071) Homepage Journal
      USA also wants Australia to drop the "economic" value argument in the PBS (pharmaceutical benefits Scheme) - ie make the drugs subsidized to sick people more expensive. An actually independent government appointed body works out what the drugs are worth in economic value and then refuses to pay anymore than that to the drug companies. Guess what the drug companies don't like it. Tese drugs are then suypplied to sick people at that cost. If you are a pensioner/unemployed it can cost as little as AUD$2.
  • by MacDork ( 560499 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @11:44PM (#7297659) Journal

    Check this [reference.com] out.

    Use of copyright to restrict redistribution is actually immoral, unethical, and illegitimate. It is a result of brainwashing by monopolists and corporate interests and it violates everyone's rights. Copyrights and patents hamper technological progress by making a naturally abundant resource scarce. Many, from communists to right wing libertarians, are trying to abolish intellectual property myths.

    Who the hell wrote that? Well, it's better than the RIAA's version. Interesting :-)

  • by m00nun1t ( 588082 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:01AM (#7297711) Homepage
    What happens to IP which is, for example, at life + 60 years? It's been in the public domain for 10 years and there may well be people out there happily exploiting it - for example, a publisher publishing a public domain book. Do they suddenly need to withdraw it from sale or start paying royalties?

    It seem bizarre to me that something could enter the public domain and then leave it again.
  • by the-build-chicken ( 644253 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:04AM (#7297719)
    As to why, if someone creates something, it should _ever_ have to go into the public domain? If I create/discover something...why shouldn't it be mine and my descendants for ever? (not flame baiting here...I'd be really interested in learning the finer points of this debate)
    • Good question (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Pseudonym ( 62607 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:23AM (#7297777)

      The answer is a utilitarian one: Human progress happens by building on the fringes of what we have now. If what we have now is locked up indefinitely, progress will effectively stop due to the cost of determining who owns what already exists.

      Think about this for a moment. How much would your computer cost if, for every component in it, you had to pay a royalty to the descendents of Faraday, Telsa, Volta, Planck, Boole, Turing, Babbage and so on for everyone who discovered something crucial to its operation?

    • Would you want to be paying royalties to the descendants of the caveman who invented the wheel?

    • If you don't want it to ever become public domain, you can keep it a secret and only yourself and your descendants will ever see it.

      Once you release it, it now becomes a burden on society to forever force people not to reproduce the words, sounds, images, or physical constructs that they would naturally want to do and be able to do.

      Second, in this day and age, nothing truly useful is developed from scratch. If you are a good author, artist, or musician, you learned from others that went before you. As a
    • I was listening to the fourth movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony recently, and I wanted to see how the choir parts are put together. Because it's in the public domain, I was able to find a PDF of the score online, and print it out (88 pages for the fourth movement, so far I've only printed part of it). It's absolutely a work of genius, and far more complicated than I would have been able to transcribe while listening to the CD. In the 16-bar passage I've been looking at, the tenor part goes above the a
    • Taken from another viewpoint, why should artistic effort provide a revenue stream for descendants?

      You write a successful book, your children can potentially live off the income from that book, while doing nothing themselves to help society in any way.

      But if you build a bridge that allows millions of people to travel more easily between two locations, increasing trade and generally giving value to society, then you get paid once for your work. Nothing for your kids, nothing for the grandkids.

      But maybe I'
    • Simple, prior to copyright laws, everything was public domain, the only way to have an idea what was your's and your's alone was to not tell anyone about it. The US invented copyrights to convince possible inventors/writers/artists to share their works with the rest of the people, and that the US if someone was to take their works as their own would protect it. Some of the people of the time (being that copyrights at the time did not exist) felt that an idea is a naturally free concept, so restrained the
    • Pseudonym had a better argument, but there is another.

      I could just turn around your question and ask:

      "Why should the descendants of someone reap in royalties forever for something one of their ancestors happened to create?"

      Copyright have been created to make it possible for artists and authors to make some money off their work and thus encourage more work to be done.

      If copyright is extended over the life of the author for some really important work, the author and his descendants have no need to do any
  • That's right (Score:5, Informative)

    by vandan ( 151516 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:05AM (#7297725) Homepage
    The FTA is nothing but bad news for Australia.
    If nothing else, it further entagles us with the lunatic foreign policy of the US.

    But of course the bad news doesn't stop there. Health care, local media content, copyright law, drug law, terrorist law, foreign ownership, ... the list goes on and on.

    For those who are interested, the ISO is holding a social forum this weekend, and will be discussing just such issues, and many more. It starts tonight ( 7pm ) and goes until Sunday. It's at UTS. See http://www.sydneysocialforum.org [sydneysocialforum.org] for more details. Honestly, this is the best place to discuss the issues involving the FTA, and build resistance groups to lobby the government. See you there!
  • I just wrote to my local MP voicing my objection to this. He is a member
    of the current government, albeit a mere backbencher at the moment.

    Here is hoping he doesn't tow the party line should they choose to tow
    the corporate American line.
  • by Pseudonym ( 62607 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:18AM (#7297756)

    ...it's actually surprisingly understandable.

    It's also surprisingly balanced. Their conclusion is that the benefits and costs of copyright term extension approximately balance each other, and hence harmonisation arguments result in a net gain for extending the term.

    I noticed that they, like most pro-copyright-term-extension reports, miss out on one crucial thing, and that's that they do not acknowledge that thanks to modern technology, there is a burgeoning "public domain industry" which consists of real stakeholders whose interests are directly in opposition with the existing copyright holders on this issue.

    Moreover, this industry is making a real foothold in Australia. I own a number of Australian-produced DVDs of 1930s era animated shorts, for example.

    People writing to their MPs might like to point this out. A copyright term extension would effectively kill a new Australian industry.

  • by Quizo69 ( 659678 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @12:24AM (#7297778) Homepage
    I am an Australian who is quite frankly sick and tired of the corporate world slowly stomping away all our rights, privileges and national identity in the name of $$$. Look through my older posts for more insight on my views on copyright (short answer - they should be abolished).

    I also don't believe in this "War on terrorism" we have enjoined with the United States. I see it as nothing more than a global land grab for US oil and gas interests. Read "Rebuilding America's Defenses" if you don't believe me (http://www.newamericancentury.org/).

    Ironically it has taken the "war" to get me interested enough in where we are potentially headed to actually decide that if I can't change those IN power, I better get my voice heard by being in government myself.

    So to this end I am interested in hearing from fellow Aussies (and others if you want to make your view known) on whether or not you want to support a future Senate candidate who is a geek at heart, and who plans to have a party based online with forums where everyone can make their voice heard. You've all heard that sending email to politicians is useless; well my view is that email and forums such as this are the BEST way to make issues known to those in politics (well, those that really care, anyway). It will allow me to disseminate my ideas and allow for consensus based policy making.

    Anyone who wishes to help by donating a small amount of server space and forum expertise to set up a fledgling party page, please contact me at quizo_NOSPAM_69@hotmail.com and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

    As we have learned from Pauline Hanson's screwups, I would need 500 registered party members to make this a legitimate endeavour, in time to run for the 2004 Federal Election. I'm not kidding myself though - as a lone Senator I would not be in much position to formulate national policy and have it succeed constantly, but I would be a tech savvy person who would vote down stupid laws that take away our privacy, and give $$$ to corporations at the expense of the citizenry.

    Oh, and instead of a fridge magnet, I'd give everyone a CD with free software such as OpenOffice.org etc, and mandate that government use open standards to deal with the public.

    Anyway, if anyone thinks they would like someone in office who is not a politician by nature (I'm a pilot by profession) then drop a comment here or email me (bear in mind Hotmail will die silently after the inbox fills so posting here is preferred!). If there's enough interest I'll begin the process of running for parliament next year.

    I don't want to make this post too long so read my other posts for more insight into how I view the world.

    Quizo69
    • Look, the idea of a "Liberal Geek" party is a great one, and though it would be difficult to get any real support, it might well be worth a try.

      Obviously, you realise that running as a true independent is a long shot to succeed, and hence the idea to form a party. However, a suggestion: if you want to form a party, don't form it around the basis that you'll be the one running for the Senate. A truly democratic and open party can be founded by you, sure, but the members might want someone else among their

      • Thanks for your comment and you raise a great point - whilst I am trying to set up a political party that represents our broad interests, I should also acknowledge that if people would rather someone else to get elected, I will stand by that. After all, what I am trying to achieve is the election of someone who will truly understand and represent what I consider to be important issues. If I can do that (and I believe I can obviously or I would not put myself up for it) then well and good, but if along the w
    • Your proposal is an interesting one and I have emailed you. Should you not get it (full inbox etc), you can reach me via my email address publically viewable on slashdot.
    • Not sure who modded this as a troll, I can assure you all this is nothing of the sort. I've already had plenty of replies to my hotmail address, so I've set up a new email address to take the load off my hotmail one. It is:

      politics@leeming_NOSPAM_designs com

      Please send emails to this address please. I've already had a tentative offer of server support (thanks), but please keep them coming if you feel you can contribute in any way.

      Once I get some space that isn't going to melt under a potential Slashdotti

  • Tell me what copyright holders think about this. Really. They have a stake in this too but I never see their points of view written about.

  • There's an excellent short story on a possible danger of extending copyright law and archives by Spider Robinson. Seems to be available for reading online [baen.com].
  • by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @01:10AM (#7297922)
    Originally, the copyright term in the US was 14 years. If your work was successful and you therefore felt it was worthwhile, you could extend that term by another 14 years if you applied for it. This was in the days before modern printing technology, advertisement, and mass transportation, let alone the Internet! So if you wrote a book or recorded a phonograph, it took awhile for enough copies to be manufactured and shipped across the country. Without modern communication and advertisement, it took even longer to achieve enough popularity to sell significant volume. And yet authors survived just fine.

    Today, we live in a world where near-instant capitalization is possible. A popular writer can sell millions of copies in the first week of a book's release. An unknown writer of exceptional quality can become well known in a few months. Similar scenarios exist with all other forms of media. A typical hollywood blockbuster makes several hundred percent profit in a theatrical release cycle alone. As a result, most of the capitalization occurs within a few years of a work's publishing and then quickly tapers off to a relatively insignificant level.

    So the question becomes: Why are copyright terms getting longer and not shorter? The vast majority of the incentive to produce occurs in the first couple years of release. After that period, one must reasonably weigh the pros and cons of allowing that term to continue. Because copyright law is a social compromise, it must be judged by its value to society as a whole. Does allowing a term to continue into years of greatly diminished sales give enough extra incentive to authors to outweigh the costs to society of the work not entering the public domain?

    There are many possible factors to consider. On one hand, very prolific authors can retire earlier on the combined trickle income from the remnant sales of numerous old works. This could be seen as an added incentive to become an author. However, at the same time, it is an incentive to stop producing earlier! On one hand, a longer term allows for certain works to go through several revisions by the original authors. But at the same time, there is no longer an incentive for others to produce derivative works of what would have been public domain material! Disney is, of course, the most classic case.. They make big money on reworking the public domain but then don't want their derivatives to ever go public domain again!

    Perhaps one of the largest factors is simply the shortage of modern public domain material. Besides removing the incentive to innovate on old material, this shortage creates a gap of cultural heritage. Consider music: when people go looking for music, they generally support the artists that are currently in style and/or innovative. Most are unwilling to pay for old music, not just because it is less popular, but because they can't afford both. (and after all, why would you "support" someone who's already dead?) And yet there has been a recent resurgence in the popularity of "oldies" music in youth. It is now common to hear parents saying things like, "Hey, I didn't know you kids actually listened to that stuff! That's older than I am!" Casual investigation reveals that unauthorized P2P swapping has largely replaced the functionality that public domain was intended to serve!

    By and large, there is great need for copyright length reform. What was once intended to create vibrant culture of quality, public information has become a system that often chokes innovation and rewards greed and slothfulness. Copyright is a good social institution, but its implementation has been greatly corrupted. It is high time for citizens to petition their lawmakers bring reason, fairness, and the public good back into the picture.

    This post is public domain. Do with it as you please.
  • Someone suggested that copyright holders ought to be responsible for maintaining a copy of the work in question, pay storage fees for the Library of Congress (in the US, obviously), etc.

    I think you could take that one step further and simply charge an annual copyright maintainance fee which should increase exponentially with the age of the copyright. Any entity could hold a copyright for as long as it wants, so long as they continue to pay the annual fee. A reasonable formula might be:

    fee = $(1.18)^(years
  • Disney, Yoko Ono...and many other worthy causes
  • ... explain why it should ever exceed the life in the first place?

    I mean, one good reason beyond wealth inheritance.
  • My two pence (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ajs318 ( 655362 ) <sd_resp2.earthshod@co@uk> on Friday October 24, 2003 @04:17AM (#7298432)
    This is the time to ask for a shortening of copyright terms. Life is too long already. What use do dead people have for royalties? Also, the original intention of copyright was to encourage the creation of works which would eventually enter the public domain. This needs to be borne in mind in any discussion. Oft has it been said that "my ideas are my babies": well, babies have this tendency to grow up and develop an existence independent of their parents.

    Here's what I would do if I was drafting a brand new copyright law:

    Default term of copyright

    Copyright should run for five years after the receipt of the first royalty payment, or five years after publication if no royalties are ever paid. If you can't make any money out of it in five years, then face it - you're probably never going to.

    Extension to five year term

    Extensions would be granted by court order and charged at five times the national median annual wage for the first six months, doubling the multiplying factor and recalculating the median wage for each additional six months thereafter. The onus would be upon the copyright holder to demonstrate why the work should not enter the public domain immediately.

    Prevention of abuse of copy-prevention measures

    If any technological measures are used to prevent unauthorised copying, then at least one unencumbered copy must be placed in escrow with the national library or a similar organisation in order that the work should be able to enter the public domain upon expiry of copyright. Failure to provide such an unencumbered copy would be grounds for termination of copyright. In such event, any penalty for attempting to circumvent copy-prevention would not be applicable in the case of such a work: it is in the public domain and the public has a statutory right to access it, using reasonable force if necessary. That the techniques used might be {illegally but successfully} applicable against other copy-prevented works should serve as a strong disincentive against "snake oil" merchants.

    And finally, the bit I think is really the most important: Protection of works in the Public Domain.

    Once a work has entered the public domain, whether by the expiration of copyright, by consent of the copyright holder or by court order, it would be legally protected against any attempt to re-copyright it. Exactly the same provision would be made for the fair use of PD material in copyright works as for the fair use of copyright material, except that nobody would be entitled to grant permission over and above what constitutes fair use.

    It's harsh, but so was the Thirteenth Amendment. We moved out of the age of muscle power and into the age of engine power; thanks to James Watt, there was no longer any even remotely legitimate reason to allow people to be kept as slaves. Now we have moved out of the Age of Scarcity and into the Age of Plenty, and the law needs to change to recognise that -- not to create artificial scarcity.
  • There are several basic reasons why they want such long copyright terms:
    1.without long copyright terms, a lot more "current" stuff comes out of copyright sooner (and therefore there is less incentive to go see the latest blockbuster or buy the latest hit game or whatever because they can get the older stuff for free AND do it legally)

    2.if it falls out of copyright sooner, the right to make "derived works" (for example, yet another sequal for or even just joe random movie that happens to use the same chara
  • I would like to see "Compulsory licensing" for copyrighted works.

    i.e. if I want a particular copyrighted work (e.g. a song), the copyright holder must make it available in a usable form. (obviously a fee can be charged for this)

    For example, songs must be on casette tapes or CDs or something.
    Movies on VHS or DVD.
    TV shows on VHS or DVD or something.
    Books would be made available either as hard-copy books or as electronic books.

    Software would be tricky (for example, what happens if someone makes a request fo

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. -- Cartoon caption

Working...