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India Blocks Yahoo Groups Over Political Content
Posted by
simoniker
on Mon Sep 29, 2003 03:59 PM
from the brute-force-embargo dept.
from the brute-force-embargo dept.
Ryan Barrett writes "In an attempt to shut down the Yahoo Group of a separatist political
movement, the Indian government's
CERT organization ended up blocking its country from accessing Yahoo Groups as a
whole. China's censorship of the Internet in the past few years has been
unsettling, but most people have accepted it as a by-product of China's form of
government. Given that India's form of government is clearly different, this is
much more chilling."
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India Blocks Yahoo Groups Over Political Content
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Irony (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Wednesday October 20 2004, @10:41AM)
Re:Irony (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://prawnworks.com/girlish)
What they did do was about the worst thing they could.
Odd That (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Monday December 03, @04:23PM)
This is definitely a chilly article. It does not bode well for the region at all.
Re:Odd That (Score:4, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Thursday July 28 2005, @08:28PM)
Re:Odd That (Score:4, Interesting)
In India, with their thriving economy and huge cash reserves, it's a different deal. Some journalist got one of the defense ministers on video while taking a bribe - they shut him down, put some of his colleagues in prison, and used any means they could to harrass him.
"Different" governments (Score:1)
Re:"Different" governments (Score:5, Informative)
(Last Journal: Wednesday December 13 2006, @06:43PM)
Pre-Communist socialism is not to be confused with democratic socialism, which has been practiced from time to time in various western countries. In this form of government, all major industries and resources are owned by the state. However, private businesses are allowed, and democratic rights are respected. Examples: pre-Thatcher Britain, pre-1990 Scandinavia
Re:"Different" governments (Score:5, Insightful)
Plenty more to block! (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not only ridiculous, it's not feasible. Good try.
Right, but... (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Monday May 22 2006, @03:55PM)
Quickly mirror the groups everywhere... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.codepunk.com/)
More. (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.colingregorypalmer.net/)
I bet they get more after this amount of news attention.
Freedom of speech (Score:4, Interesting)
This is going to happen, sooner of later, in any nation which doesn't have some analogue of the First Amendment. Even in democracies like India, either the government will do it unilaterally or they will scare the people enough to push it through.
A Constitution like ours (US), however flawed, is a wonderful thing.
Re:Freedom of speech (Score:4, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Friday January 09 2004, @03:09PM)
Re:Freedom of speech (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.louishochman.com/)
In addition, we have courts that have overturned provisions of the patriot act, and states that have refused to enforce parts of it.
Our system isn't perfect, and it requires consistent vigalance on the part of hte governed, but at least the avenues for change are built into its core.
Unrestricted freedom of speech is rare... (Score:4, Insightful)
Just one more reason why maintaining freedom of speech in the U.S. requires constant vigilance.
just use... (Score:2, Insightful)
When are countries going to learn that the Internet can't be stopped?
Re:just use... (Score:4, Informative)
http://theregister.co.uk/content/55/32450.html
They posted an updated version which contained a backhole... they called it a 'crime tracking feature'... and then refused to indicate to users which site was being monitored and which wasn't.
New Headline (Score:3, Funny)
(http://www.snowplow.org/tom/)
NNTP bittorrent news proxy? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.kaillera....topic=1743&forum=5&0 | Last Journal: Tuesday August 10 2004, @02:43PM)
Why can't the same principal with web boards be applied with bittorrent? Simply wget the page you want, create a
(runs off to script)
Where to draw the line (Score:5, Insightful)
If we don't believe in free speech for people we despise, we do not believe in it at all.
It's very difficult to draw a line in the sand to divide what is and is not acceptible as free speech. And the most damage doesn't come from misplacing the line a little to the right or the left, but from placing the line to begin with.
India will now be forever locked in a debate over what can and cannot be accessible to the public.
On the upside, the more India is cut off from the internet, the better my job security.
Re:Where to draw the line (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://geekbiker.net/ | Last Journal: Thursday July 01 2004, @05:57PM)
Free speech laws aren't there to protect popular speech. By its very nature, it doesn't need protection. It's to protect the unpopular view. Before anyone jumps on me for this, realize that not long ago in the deep south the popular view was that blacks were not really human. The unpopular view was that blacks deserved to be treated as equals.
The cure to bad free speech is more free speech, not laws limiting what you can say. People with some degree of intelligence will figure out what is right. The stupid people have already decided so the amount of free speech won't affect them.
Stupid Stupid move - But its back on line (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.cs.ttu.edu/~sundararajan)
Of course for a democratic nation like India free speech was taken for granted until today. The infamous declaration of Emergency by Indira Gandhi in 1975 plagues the Congress party even today. Funny, a lot of the leaders in the ruling party found themselves at the receiving end of the stick back then. Time really does make one forget I guess.
Anyway let us see how the "democratic process" pans itself out on this issue. The US found its own achilles heel in the Patriot Act. So moralizers beware.
Little known facts (Score:1)
(http://poobal.net/)
judging from India's CERT(shouldn't the real CERT sue over the name issue?) ban we can see what kind of people run the IT sector(atleast on the govt side). Bad day for democracy.
How slashdot can help (Score:1)
(http://192.168.1.1/)
Hmm, Then India would have to block
Loosing Y! groups? Hardly a loss (Score:2, Interesting)
(http://www.kamps.org/)
I only wish the British government would do the same - perhaps people will make *real* groups and/or websites.
h
Killing Flies with Nuclear Weapons (Score:5, Insightful)
It is unlikely they need Yahoo in order to successful anti-government activists. If they do, then they are not much of a threat. It would seem this is like killing flies with nuclear weapons.
Perhaps this should be a word to the wise, as American companies continue off-shoring development. What happens when the shut down incoming email? Your corporate site? Or your ISP? It appears they have no concern for the outcome of their action, merely that they follow it, as their duty demands. However, it is _their_ country and as it said, it is outside the control of US laws, and by direct connection US protections.
look dudes (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://circletimessquare.com/)
but so is strong government
a lot of people here come from cultural monocultures of western democracies with strong central governments
we're talking about an organization with at most a few dozen members that want a sliver of land in the northeast of india to be independent, in a country that is as about as culturally varied as the entire african subcontinent
this is serious stuff in a place where india and china still have serious border issues about sikkhim, kashmir, etc., not to mention active separatist groups like in assam
this is not the border of canada and the us, across which most people here on slashdot are posting, perhaps the most historically peaceful border in the world
this is serious stuff, this is not funny, this is not a simplistic civics lesson in sixth grade that is understandable in simplistic terms only
india has to take serious steps to protect the integrity of its borders and internal cohesion
blocking all of yahoo groups was a MISTAKE in trying to block this one small group
everyone involved admits that
germany/ france actively censors nazi interests, and we think of them as open democracies
that's a group a lot larger than this tiny unknown group
nobody's screaming bloody murder over that here
so please, ket's have not have all the knee-jerk over-simplifying chicken littles cry the sky is falling in india
let's have some perspective
this really is no big deal, except for this minor practically unknown separatist group, which now has won more pr than they could have possibly dreamed of
which is perhaps the real lesson here about censorship, after all is said and done: you often just wind up buying pr for the group/ work you are trying to censor
Indians love trouble (Score:5, Insightful)
neighbor. Indian political leaders are under a lot
of pressure to not settle any of these disputes.
Instead they have to fan these flames to win votes.
Maybe one day Indians will wake up and elect leaders
that will do something about feeding and educating
their masses rather than bickering with neighbouring
countries over land.
Re:look dudes (Score:4, Insightful)
Not perhaps, definitely. It is the largest and longest undefended border in history (although there apparently were some issues between Minnesota and Canada during the 60's, IIRC)
"a lot of people here come from cultural monocultures of western democracies with strong central governments"
The US isn't a mono-culture. India is not a mono-culture either. It just happens that India's cultural differences currently tend towards violence more than the cultural differences in the US do at the moment.
"this is serious stuff, this is not funny, this is not a simplistic civics lesson in sixth grade that is understandable in simplistic terms only"
The purpose of the structure in the United States is not that something is best for country, but that it is right. That it is best for the country happens to coincide with what is right, on many occasions. Regardless of effectiveness and side-effects, some things are inalienable rights. The point is, if they can be abridged *at all* they are no longer inalienable rights.
It's like the difference between getting genuinely no water, and getting a little drink of water every day. Stepping away from the absolute has a drastically different effect. It is not merely a change in the magnitude of a situation, it is change in the nature of the situation.
If you wish to argue that some rights can still be restricted, feel free to. In some cases, I may even agree with you. However, once a right is reduced, it is no longer an absolute right, and cannot fit into the same category of absolute rights.
Not Sure (Score:1)
(http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Monday April 02 2007, @11:59AM)
Otherwise, this has little to do with anyone outside of India.
Two Words (Score:1)
Times of India article (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.speakeasy.org/~dunl/public/)
The Times of India [indiatimes.com] has an article, "Big Brother turns gaze on debates," about this [indiatimes.com] (dated Saturday). From the article:
Strange... India is usually quite tolerant (Score:1)
(http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/)
I wonder how long the block will last?
A taste of context (Score:3, Insightful)
So instead of ranting and raving on SlashDot about freedom of speech, write a letter to the appropriate ambassadors-- and then go and donate to a charity that helps poor Indians. It'll be more productive, and you'll help solve two problems, not just one.
Bullshit sensationlist headlines (Score:1)
IP & Yahoogroups (Slightly off topic.) (Score:1)
What if it's a closed members only who join & are invited discussion group held on the yahoo servers ?
Can an american company claim legal ownership of IP discussed on such kinds of yahoo groups?
I once tried to get to the bottom of it and ended up being politely told by some yahoo admins & their IP dept. to go find a lawyer and figure it out for myself.
2 things (Score:1)
or, maybe, participating in the group via email only.
2. Governments are about control and lack trust in individuals. (And rightly so, too many conflicting interests!) The Internet is based on trust and freedom of speech/expression. It is the conschiousness of mankind starting to manifest itself in material (well, electronic) form. Which is an evolutionary step towards a revolution in human relationships.
I'm willing to offer them space, others should too (Score:1)
(http://www.chatmag.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday November 09 2004, @07:41PM)
From the Yahoo group, it looks like kyrmenlang may be the owner, at least thats the nickname that posted the first message on their board. I'll see if an email to that nick will get through.
figures (Score:1)
(http://slashdot.org/)
oh, and India isnt as democratic as it seems. its really just a corrupt govt that says it was voted in.
remember, this is the country where ghandi's village has no running water but cola is widely available.
Hmm... (Score:1)
Woohoo (Score:2)
Freedom != Democracy (Score:2)
Don't confuse individual rights with democracy. They are not the same thing.
In fact, the ideas oppose each other. Democracy is about giving the majority control. Individual rights are there to protect us from the excesses of democracy.
Maybe India will outsource? (Score:1)
On the Surface Different (Score:1)
(http://slashdot.org/)
But at heart how different are states? They want control and to stay in power.
not the end of the world for third world (Score:1)
It is not is a statement about india being less democratic because of this. The fact that that many newspapers and journalists are up in arms about this is statement about its fundamental philosophy being sound.
Once in a while, every country slips up.
Patriot act,DMA
al jazeera (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:al jazeera (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/)
non-technical journalism strikes again (Score:2)
(http://domain.broken...registrar.joker.com/)
But it does raise an interesting point - are they going to block, say, NNTP traffic? What about other encrypted, non HTTP-based alternatives?
I can't believe these idiots. There they have a group of dissidents communicating out there in the open where they can be freely and easily monitored - and they're forcing them to use another (probably secure) alternative.
Stupid techies at the ISP (Score:1)
Indian Constitution (Score:2, Informative)
This type of behavior would appear to be blocked by the lines: "LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship," "Right to Freedom," and " Cultural and Educational Right."
Although, the line: "To uphold and protect the sovereignty, unity and integrity of India," would appear to allow them to silence any opposition to their government.
Just some food for thought from a first time poster.
authoritarians 1, technodeterminists 0? (Score:1)
Since then, countries like China, Cuba and others have taught us that it isn't that easy (surprise of all surprises!) The Internet is a tool like any other that determined governments can circumvent and use to support their goals. As previous posters have mentioned this is not only true in authoritarian regimes but also in countries that are ostensibly democratic such as India and the U.S.
Your ad here
A Simple question to my Wise American Friends (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.etash.com/)
What is the correct, free response to such a scenario?
yahoo groups or nuclear conflict? hmmm... (Score:1)
i dont know if this ahs been pointed out... (Score:1)
(http://slashdot.org/)
can we (Score:1)
(http://www.cyberbite.com/)
Primordial Human Right of Self-determination (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.geocities.com/jim_bowery | Last Journal: Tuesday September 19 2006, @10:20PM)
Logic such as this could have resolved the conundrum of the Confederacy by stating simply that the north had a right to invade the south for the sole purpose of giving slaves the right of self-determination -- and that the right of the Confederacy to secede was not the issue.
Of course, as the globe shrinks there are opportunities to violate the self-determination of a lot more of the people than ever before. Hence the real test of a sovereign's committment to human rights is its committment to expanding the ecological range of Earth.
Actually (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Thursday October 19 2006, @09:26PM)
Actually, this feels a lot better than forcing Yahoo to take it down. At least Yahoo is still free to host (almost) whatever they want.
Now if I was a citizen of India, I'd be pissed.
There's a LOT of skeletons in india's Closet (Score:1)
ineffective (Score:1)
Of course this is bad, but... (Score:1)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~mazur/)
Of course, I currently drop everything from Yahoo except for the one person.
It would be so nice to be rich, so I could track and sue every SPAM sender, facilitator and SPAM relay to bits.
mazur.
Work Around (Score:1)
It was a damn TECHNICAL issue (Score:1)
Re:Good! (Score:1)
Re:Article text (Score:1)
Mods: Modified Article (Score:3, Informative)
(Last Journal: Monday May 22 2006, @03:55PM)
Bin laden, huh? That's not his him.
, Google, or MSN
MSN isn't mentioned in article. Hynniebinwtrep
More modification.
and prevent other sites from disclosing information about the ban,
Not present in original article.
Reporters Without Limits
Should be Borders
Re:Well gee. (Score:2, Informative)
KARACHI, May 30: A Washington-based news website - South Asia Tribune - has claimed that the government has blocked access to its URL. A press statement issued by the Tribune on Friday said Internet access to their website, www.satribune.com, "has been blocked" by Pakistan Internet Exchange (PIE), the Internet backbone provider for Pakistan. But Federal Minister for Information Technology and Telecommunication Awais Ahmad Khan Leghari expressed his ignorance about the development when asked to comment about the alleged denial of access to the website.
Re:India nukes Yahoo Groups (Score:1)
(http://www.schoolinsummertime.com/)
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb...
Re:No they didn't. (Score:1)
Re:So does USA block sites according to content (Score:1)
This sounds reasonably accurate, although I'm not quite sure the result of some recent lawsuits. But are you aware of how few people use the library as the primary Internet resource? We may be attempting to censor porn (and in turn, censoring more sites) at libraries, but nothing has been done for involuntary censorship at the ISP level or anything else.
dont think that democracy means free anything, you give up your daily life for your boss no ?
Yes, but I am free to tell my boss to go F#$* him/her self and not show up for work tomorrow. It's not a very viable option for the people of India to get up and leave their country, if it's even possible for them to do so.
Al Jazeera wasn't taken down by the government (Score:4, Interesting)
So many people who scream first amendment forgot this crucial point -- the first amendment limits what the government can do. A DDoS attack against Al Jazeera by the GOVERNMENT is a first amendment violation. A DDoS attack by INDIVIDUALS is not - although it is illegal.
Re:great. (Score:1)
(http://www.sa.niu.edu/anime/)
it was over there... (Score:1)
(http://www.anreabhloid.org/)
Re:Before mentioning the First Amendment (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Friday September 10 2004, @12:41PM)
Jobs are temporary (Score:1)
Re:Before mentioning the First Amendment (Score:1)
Re:Before mentioning the First Amendment (Score:2)
We're currently hosing it down, and will try to get it presentable and fit to move sometime in the next few months.
What about email ??? or webmail (Score:1, Insightful)
i barely actualy use the actual website for yahoo groups.
so all they have really done is made it a bit more difficult, but i dont see how they are going to stop people from checking webmail email accounts
and technicaly you dont really need to access the webpage to accept an invitation to the group
Re:Replies are a bit self centered (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Wednesday January 07 2004, @06:51PM)
Re:Replies are a bit self centered (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Saturday April 22 2006, @04:05AM)
That just points out the effectiveness of propaganda in the USA.
The Land of the Free isn't really, as your excellent EFF link points out -- just opposition to a few key policies is enough to elicit a glare from the baleful ever-searching Eye of repression.
For reference, look up the word COINTELPRO [wikipedia.org].