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Spam The Internet Your Rights Online

NZ Spammer Shutdown Makes Big Difference 654

lump writes "A notorious spammer, based in New Zealand, who had his name and other personal info released first in a national newspaper, and then on the web, has shut down his operation, citing harassment. What interests me about this case is that, in the 5 or 6 days since he has supposedly stopped operating, I personally have had one (1) spam email, to an address which had previously averaged around fifty per day. Colleagues report a similar reduction in spam. All I can say is 'excellent.' Hate to say it, but in this case, vigilante type action seems to have had the desired result. This needs to be publicised, as anything which slows down spam can only be a good thing."
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NZ Spammer Shutdown Makes Big Difference

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  • by svvampy ( 576225 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:02AM (#6781695)
    Does that mean we can only look forward to baked-beans?
  • Yeah, true, but this doesn't stop the flux of spamhaus cohorts' virus-infected computers sending me their pestilence simply because I'm still on their "hit lists" or whatever. That's basically evidence that even if the root of the problem is taken care of, that the symptoms can still persist.

    Unsolicited e-mail, spam or virus, all the same to me.
    • by Kris_J ( 10111 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:21AM (#6782032) Homepage Journal
      I've just started getting hit by the latest email worm/virus/trojan thing (some jerkoff with my real email address has just gotten themselves infected). And judging by the lack of response from my personal address' email server I'm not alone. This could be the resurgance predicted as people got back to work after the (long?) weekend. Either way, spam is probably down because email servers are overloaded more than peoples' inboxes are.
  • Me too (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:02AM (#6781700)
    I really have noticed a dramatic decrease in the amount of spam I've received in the past 4-5 days. I figured it was just due to my dilligence with unsubscribing myself to mailing lists but everything just suddenly dropped off.
    • Re:Me too (Score:5, Interesting)

      by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:05AM (#6781972) Journal
      LOL.

      I remember years ago when I responded to the footer "Click here to unsubscribe". Little did I know that was a way spammers varified email addresses. It must have taken me off the $20 for 1 million email addresses, and placed me on the $250 premium list.

      Kinda like the footer that spammers had which cliamed their email complied with some HR#1342 blah blah blah. That is when I became suspicious, because I knew something that passed in the house alone was not law.

      • Re:Me too (Score:5, Insightful)

        by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @05:58AM (#6782628)
        Yeah, that HR#1342 nonsense was really annoying. They were like saying "see, we are law abiding citizens, we're doing you a favor" What BS

        Scum of the earth.

        I really believe that contrary to popular opinion, a tough federal spam law would make all the difference in the world.

        When police catch drug runners, they seize the drug runners possesions (house and car). Why couldn't it be the same for spammy??

        Think about it -- if they would lose their computers, they would have a difficult time spamming. Couple that with some pound-me-in-the-butt federal prison time, they might get the freakin' message the they are not liked

        All you would need to do is catch a handful and make an example of them.

        Sure, the remaining spammies might move to another country, but at least they would be on the run.
        • Re:Me too (Score:4, Interesting)

          by thogard ( 43403 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @07:42AM (#6782834) Homepage
          Problem is this guy is in a country where even if they threw the book at him they would let him off because the thought of having the book thrown at him would be too stressful.

          But I'm willing to put up NZ$1000 [clueby4.com] of my very own money to get this guy in front of the courts and the reporter that turned him in will make sure it stays news.

          This guy has costs Kiwi businesses millions of dollars in bandwidth costs. He sells illegal drugs. He advertises adult items to children. There ought to be something to bust him on.

          He claims he has reformed but if he had, he would be naming his associates.
        • Re:Me too (Score:5, Insightful)

          by johnnyb ( 4816 ) <jonathan@bartlettpublishing.com> on Monday August 25, 2003 @11:36AM (#6784379) Homepage
          "When police catch drug runners, they seize the drug runners possesions (house and car). Why couldn't it be the same for spammy??"

          That's a terrible law for drug runners, it would be even worse for people who are just sending email.

          Honestly, even after they have acquitted someone, often times they still cannot get back their property. I don't want a police state, and I bet that you don't either.
          • Re:Me too (Score:3, Insightful)

            by WNight ( 23683 )
            You need to avoid the conflict of interest. Don't let the police department keep the good, or the money from the auction.

            Having the tools of your crime confiscated seems to make sense. If I rob a store with a gun, should I get to keep the gun? If you use the computer primarily for an unlawful purpose, you should have it taken away.

            But, I think spam is a *very* serious crime. Nothing speeds the decay of a society faster than abuse of the commons or being encouraged to sell out your neighbors for a quick bu
            • Re:Me too (Score:3, Interesting)

              by johnnyb ( 4816 )
              I could go with corporal punishment, but the deprivation of property without due process is what I find problematic.
    • Re:Me too (Score:3, Interesting)

      by adelton ( 50213 )

      If the spammers get as much virus-bounces as I do (about 1000 over last 24 hours), they figure out that it doesn't make sense to send any spam at the moment. It will simply get lost among the other trash.

      I set up bogofilter to mark Bogosity in two categories -- viruses and spam. Then I color the index in my mutt accordingly and I get nice overview. The virus to spam ratio is about 25 : 1. The spam to legal mail ratio is about 3 : 1.

    • Re:Me too (Score:5, Funny)

      by Boiling_point_ ( 443831 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @03:07AM (#6782192) Homepage
      An AC writes:
      I really have noticed a dramatic decrease in the amount of spam I've received in the past 4-5 days. I figured it was just due to my dilligence with unsubscribing myself to mailing lists but everything just suddenly dropped off.
      Hmm let's see - an anonymous coward uses a subject line of "Me too" to provide a brief anecdote about noticing an unspecified decrease in spam received during an approximated timeframe, then speculates on attributing this to an untested hypothesis, and gets moderated "+4, Informative".

      Come on - you know you wanna blockquote me now, and get a +5, Funny for saying "You're new here, aren't you"...

      • Re:Me too (Score:3, Funny)

        by Eythian ( 552130 )

        Hmm let's see - an anonymous coward uses a subject line of "Me too" to provide a brief anecdote about noticing an unspecified decrease in spam received during an approximated timeframe, then speculates on attributing this to an untested hypothesis, and gets moderated "+4, Informative". Come on - you know you wanna blockquote me now, and get a +5, Funny for saying "You're new here, aren't you"...

        You've been here for some time, haven't you...

  • by mrseigen ( 518390 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:02AM (#6781701) Homepage Journal
    I used to get solid stuff in all of my accounts but I haven't gotten a single piece of anything in the last week. Hate to say it, but vigilanteeism is the only thing that works.
  • Are we sure? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RT Alec ( 608475 ) * <alecNO@SPAMslashdot.chuckle.com> on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:03AM (#6781705) Homepage Journal

    I have noticed a sharp drop in spam the past few day, too. I attributed that to the recent SoBig.F craze sweeping the nation (and beyond). Is there any definative evidence?

    While I am skeptical, I am also hopeful. If he has indeed been the cause of so much of the spam I have seen recently, then this ought to serve as a wake up call to anyone looking to fill his shoes.

    • Many spammers use systems with holes in them. So if we have the slammer and sobig worms going around, maybe these are infecting spammer machines and preventing spam from occurring somehow. Then again, I've read that "experts have speculated that Sobig.F, which affects only machines running
      Microsoft Windows, is setting up computers to become spam generators."
      • Re:Are we sure? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by leviramsey ( 248057 )

        Also, with various mail servers being swamped with SoBig mail, I don't think much spam can get through.

      • Re:Are we sure? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by andrewski ( 113600 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:49AM (#6781908) Homepage
        I have a feeling that the large-time spammers don't really sit around r00+ing boxes to spam with. These guys are transfering gigabytes per day of spam. They are doing so with the blessings and services of hosting companies. The only reason a hosting company has for shutting down a spammer is that they've been blackholed. This is the only thing that works. I have NO pity for folks who also have hosting from these scumbags who are collateral damage. Find a new hosting or colo company or feel the wrath.

        The different governments ESPECIALLY the US federal government feels that spam isn't their problem. The only recourse are semi-vigalante operations such as blacklists. God bless 'em.

        (P.S. Don't say 'well, how did we know?' You learn when your clients can't get their mail or whatever. You then switch hosting co's to a less scummy operation. Vote with dollars people.)
        • Re:Are we sure? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Shdwdrgn ( 162364 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @08:16AM (#6782971)
          You have obviously never been on the receiving end of a blacklist. I look at the mailing lists and all I see are a bunch of jerks acting as if the provider is always at fault, and that everybody has a choice who their provider is.

          In the past week, I've had some messages start bouncing. A lookup at http://openrbl.org/ shows 0 positives on my IP, yet for some reason I'm getting bounces claiming both SPEWS and Osirusoft are rejecting me. It would be nice to find out what's going on, but both of their websites are unaccessible. The only reference I could locate to others in my /24 block was the local Catholic School having an open proxy (NOT an open relay), but no reported spam.

          So is my ISP being lax in their anti-spam policy? I could only find 1 report of a known spammer operating from my ISP's address block in the past year, and that one appeared to have been picked up from their purchase of another provider. Sounds to me like they are doing their job.

          And don't give me any of this BS about 'well the ISP had their chance to shut down the troublemakers before they were blacklisted.' Where the hell was *MY* chance to do something before *I* got blacklisted?

          I've been using ordb and spamhaus to filter incoming mail for the past severl months, but had never really read any of the mailing lists to see what was going on. Quite frankly I'm amazed at the attitudes. The scenario that comes to mind is this... On the block where I live, someone who I have never met gets a DUI while driving (someone spams). The court orders them to attend classes about drunk driving (send a message to ISP to get rid of the problem). The person never attends those classes, so the city takes away the driver's license of EVERYONE on the block (blacklisted). Of course, nobody on my block has any idea what was going on, and if we had, we may have been able to put some pressure on the individual to make changes, but no, the city doesn't care about that.

          In my case (with the discovered open proxy), it's a little more incredible... A neighbor lends his car to someone else, and even though that person drove safetly and there were no reported incidents, our whole block has restricted anyway.

          I'm going to keep using RBL's on my mail server, but I'm going to do a little more research into who I'm using. It's a great concept, but I've seen too many people on huge power trips now to explicitly trust what they are telling me should be restricted.
          • Re:Are we sure? (Score:3, Informative)

            by frankie ( 91710 )
            I'm getting bounces claiming both SPEWS and Osirusoft are rejecting me. It would be nice to find out what's going on

            Well, you could always RTFM [google.com]. Post your question on NANAE or NANAB and the group will tell you exactly why you're in SPEWS.

            • Re:Are we sure? (Score:3, Informative)

              You can be on SPEWS for giving the wrong look. Seriously, SPEWS is an incredibly bad blacklist. The notion of throwing out entire IP blocks, entire ISPs, even entire backbones that MIGHT support spam, is entirely insane. The list is such a joke that the RBL test may be taken out of SpamAssassin [spamassassin.org] in the next version.

              The only thing more inaccurate than SPEWS is URBL. (And yes, that is a subtle joke.)
      • Re:Are we sure? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:19AM (#6782024) Homepage
        Aside from the possibility SoBig.F is building another SpamNet, in which case we are about to have a *major* deluge of spam, I suspect SoBig.F is the real cause of the slowdown for other reasons. The NZ spammer, Shane Atkinson, is not even listed on Spamhaus' [spamhaus.org] ROKSO list, so unless he's only known there by a company name he's probably small beer.

        On the other hand, we have a myriad of compromised Windows boxes sending out new copies of SoBig.F, and poorly configured corporate mail scanners bouncing them back to their faked addresses. All this adds up to a massive strain on ISP's mail gateways, some of which are going to be used to send spam. I suspect the spam is just being slowed to a crawl by the sheer volume of SoBig.F and normal spam inconvenience levels will be restored soon. My money's on September 10th...

  • by Spytap ( 143526 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:04AM (#6781707)
    Sounds like we're about to enter the times of the Wild Wild Web, where vigilantism and marshal law run wild....sounds like fun to me!
    • Re:sounds like... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by darkov ( 261309 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @03:38AM (#6782280)
      I hope so. One brutal public execution of a spammer by a wild mob would stop spam overnight.

      Another strategy might be to bait psychopaths with spam mails "look what this guy sent your momma" then direct them to the spammer's residence.
  • by TypoNAM ( 695420 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:04AM (#6781708)
    ... I haven't seen much spam in my inbox lately. But yet spam from my hotmail account is just the same, damn Microsoft for using their hotmail users as a spam whore for money. :P
    • Re:No wonder... (Score:3, Informative)

      by bedessen ( 411686 )
      It's not that microsoft is somehow selling hotmail names. That would be a terrible business decision for them, as it costs them an arm and a leg to deal with spam. If there was a way that they could easily stop it with no false positives (pipe dream, alas) they would. Otherwise they're stuck paying for the enormous bandwidth and storage costs associated with running hotmail.com and msn.com. (Yes, I know there's ad money involved, but I would wager it doesn't come close to paying for operations.)

      The rea
      • by finallyHasANickname ( 559395 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:57AM (#6782488) Journal
        Otherwise they're stuck paying for the enormous bandwidth and storage costs associated with running hotmail.com and msn.com. (Yes, I know there's ad money involved, but I would wager it doesn't come close to paying for operations.)

        ::::dumb look:::: Wait. Ohhhhhhh. I know what you mean. Somebody's gotta pay the people who stand in line to step up onto the porch where the guy is standing there with his lever to let people fall through the trapdoor when the customer lady conspicuously mouths but does not audibly utter, "No!" with shoulder gesticulations after 200 focus groups have worked on tuning the ad content toward the demographic of people who are in the market to choose their first ISP. You mean like that? :-)


    • interesting. I have had a huge decrease in my hotmail account. You must be on a different list.

      We just need to find your spammy and cap his butt.
  • by cybercuzco ( 100904 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:05AM (#6781711) Homepage Journal
    Catburglary is down. In other news, vicious sack beatings up 300%
  • Anything? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:07AM (#6781721)
    "Anything which slows down spam can only be a good thing."

    Hardly. Without violating godwin's law, I can think of lots of ways to stop spam that would be a bad thing. Be careful, this is a slippery slope.
    • Re:Anything? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by black mariah ( 654971 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:32AM (#6781830)
      Oh shit, the 'slippey slope'... Slippery slopes often have more of a foothold than people think. Finding spammers and publishing their email addresses and maybe even phone numbers would do a lot to stop the bullshit. Before you ask, no I don't want my personal info printed for all to see. That's why I don't piss them off.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:08AM (#6781724)
    I was so naive.
  • by nocomment ( 239368 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:09AM (#6781729) Homepage Journal
    As I have this in /etc/postfix/body_checks /^Penis/ REJECT /^penis/ REJECT /^Pindick/ REJECT
  • by shird ( 566377 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:09AM (#6781730) Homepage Journal
    I might be reaching a bit here, but perhaps the spammers are waiting for the current SoBig infestation to die down. Reasons being;

    many people are getting flooded with the crap and where they may just get a few spams and be able to read them, now they are inundated and are trigger happy with the delete key.

    Many peoples inboxes are filled and can't accept any e-mail

    It also may be that your particular address just happened to be 0wn3d by that particular spammer but not any/many others. There are plenty of other people that are on many other spammers lists.

  • by sssmashy ( 612587 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:10AM (#6781733)

    Shane Atkinson - whose business is known as spamming - said the barrage of abuse made him worry about the safety of his children.

    Given that Mr. Atkinson is a man who sent out a hundred million spam messages a day, for penis enlargement and similarly raunchy BS, I too am worried about the safety of his children... with an amoral sleazebag like him for a father, who knows how his unfortunate progeny might turn out?

    I doubt if Mr. Atkinson ever lost sleep over the millions of children whose email inboxes were polluted with his X-rated crap on a daily basis. And yet he tries to pull the "good father" routine. What a joke.

  • Just suppose.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Alpha_Traveller ( 685367 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:12AM (#6781745) Homepage Journal

    ...that this kind of thing continues. The same way that sex offenders lives are disrupted by having their names published in communities they move to, we could publish spammer's information here on slashdot.
    Oops. we do that already I think...

    Realistically though, is this something the US would want to adopt as a deterent? it seems to me way too open for abuse.

    But let's suppose we could do that officially. Who is qualified to offically identify a spammer? How easy is it to detect a specific spammer (in terms of the skills required to get to right) and how easy is it to get the skills you'd need to do that? Not that Congress is going to authorize the establishment of an anti-spam unit...are they?

  • I think you are right. This jacka$$ was filling my inboxes too apparently. I used to recieve around 30-40 spams in my main hotmail spam repository....another 20 or more getting automatically blocked... Now I have less than a third of that. Praise God.
  • "A notorious spammer, based in New Zealand, who had his name and other personal info released first in a national newspaper, and then on the web...

    National New Zealand Newspaper?? That's commonly known as a flyer.

    Just kidding. I actually know a lot of Kiwis and they're all pretty passionate about whatever they're doing. I'm not surprised at the result.
    • by cowlum1 ( 685203 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:45AM (#6781898)


      I live in NZ and read the original article. + the followups.

      The original article was in the national paper The Herald, around two weeks ago. The original article was only a moderatly sized peice at the back of the paper (IT section). The author had simply had enough of the spam and was also worried for his daughters exposure to things such as viagra. So he went about tracking the spammer down. He eventually found him, rang him and organised an interview. Thus the spammers name appeared within the paper and thus harassemnt began.

      So then the spammer become worried for his family .
  • Hate to say it ? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DeBeuk ( 239106 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:17AM (#6781771)
    Hate to say it, but in this case, vigilante type action seems to have had the desired result.

    Why do you hate to say this ? If governments fail to do anything about spammers, possibly because they don't know how, the only option is vigilantism.
    If the only way to stop these guys is to put their names in the paper or mention them on television shows, so be it.

    Personally I wouldn't mind seeing them being dragged down the street to be tarred and feathered.
  • A number of causes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by svvampy ( 576225 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:17AM (#6781772)
    A much as a two-bit spammer in the South Pacific would love to think that he has such an impact upon the industry, let's be realistic. What about the South Canadian power outage? The various worms and virii that have been circulating? I'd say that maybe some of the filth spewing nodes of our beloved internet have been infected. Also likely is that the recent profusion has probably made some people take a closer look at their PCs and network, eliminating some spam-zombies, or spombies and other sploitz
  • NOT a dupe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sbszine ( 633428 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:21AM (#6781793) Journal
    Attention Slashdotters! This is a follow-up story, not a dupe. It even links [slashdot.org] to the older story. This new article is not about the Kiwi quitting spamming. Rather, it's about the noticeable drop in spam since he quit, and speculates that his story might have scared other spammers.

    Of course, just after he quit Blaster and SoBig hit the net, so it's more likely that the drop in spam is linked to them, e.g.
    • People are more cautious about opening random mail because SoBig is on the lose
    • Inboxes are stuff full of viruses and anti-virus autoresponder messages, so that there's no room left for spam
    • Spammer's machine keeps mysteriously rebooting (my favourite)
  • by bgeer ( 543504 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:22AM (#6781794)
    DEAR SIR/MADAM,
    MY NAME IS MOHAMMED YASSIN NGABE CURRENTLY PROVIDING INTERNET SERVICE TO SEVERAL WELL KNOWN SPAMMERS. I KNOW THIS LETTER MIGHT SURPRISE YOU BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD NO PREVIOUS COMMUNICATIONS OR BUSINESS DEALINGS BEFORE NOW.

    DUE TO A RECENT UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT INVOLVING A GARDEN WEASEL AND MY LARGE BOWEL, I CAN NO LONGER PROVIDE ACCESS TO THESE UPSTANDING ENTREPENEURS. AS A RESULT I MUST REGRETFULLY DISPOSE MYSELF OF THE SPAMHOSTING BUSINESS AND GIVE THE ADDRESSES AND NAMES OF SEVENTY-TWO (72) SERIAL SPAMMERS TO A WORTHY REPLACEMENT HOST.

    DUE TO THE SENSITIVE NATURE OF THESE ADDRESSES, AND THE SENSITIVE NATURE OF THE GROSSLY ENLARGED PENISES OF THE SPAMMERS THEMSELVES, I MUST EXCERCISE THE UTMOST DISCRETION IN GIVING AWAY THESE ADDRESSES.

    TO ESTABLISH YOUR GOOD FAITH IN THIS TRANSACTION, YOU MUST FIRST SEND ME YOUR NAME, EMAIL ADDRESS(ES), SHAMPOO BRAND PREFERENCE, AND PENIS SIZE.

    KINDLY TREAT THIS REQUEST AS VERY IMPORTANT AND STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL. I HONESTLY ASSURE YOU THAT THIS TRANSACTION IS 100% LEGAL AND RISK-FREE.

    MOHAMMED YASSIN NGABE, ESQ.
    LAGOS, NIGERIA
  • by saskboy ( 600063 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:22AM (#6781797) Homepage Journal
    I have a prediction for the future.

    Given the last week of automated spam from the most popular viruses out there, I'd say we can expect computers to outspam the best spammers. Spammers will write many viruses that send ads to enlarge our penises, and stop popup ads, and then they don't even have to take responsibility.

    The smart thing for them to do, since they will be outlaws anyway, is to have OTHER PEOPLE send spam for them.
    Enough people are sending "empty" virus messages right now. Just think of the marketing potential if those virus messages contained a payload to send the spammer's material!

    Scary.
  • by mdinowitz ( 618329 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:34AM (#6781842) Homepage Journal
    During the last week, while SoBig was flying around, my spam level was exceptionally low. Now that SoBig is basically gone (for now) the spam level has increased almost back to its normal level. Remember the basic rule:
    "correlation does not imply causation"
    Just because spam levels went down when this guy said he was getting out of the game does not mean that his departure was the cause.
  • Hey, I do get fewer. (Score:5, Informative)

    by dtfinch ( 661405 ) * on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:39AM (#6781870) Journal
    Last week: 179 spams
    Previous week: 210 spams
    Previous week: 277 spams

    My spam dropped by 35%. Though I can't discount the possibility that it's just the increased virus traffic slowing the rate at which spammers can send their emails.
  • by dirtydamo ( 160364 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:40AM (#6781871)
    anything which slows down spam can only be a good thing

    s/spam/terrorism/

    Still agree with this statement?
  • YRO (Score:5, Funny)

    by black mariah ( 654971 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:40AM (#6781873)
    Stories posted in the YRO section should have an option to moderate comments as "Paranoid".
  • An idea... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:41AM (#6781876) Journal
    I was thinking, the problem with spam is two fold. One, the person sending it to you is anonymous. If the spammer believed everyone would know his identity, that would be a deterrent. Second, the spammer has no large costs. This makes for a marketplace where a few individuals will make money at the expense of everyone else.

    I have said this before, we have a problem of ethics. Nobody wants to be responsible for what they do. A spammer is more concerned about making money than the inconvenience he causes to millions of people.

    My solution is we will have to remove aninimity from the web. Everyone will have to become accountable for what they do.

    • Re:An idea... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Little Brother ( 122447 ) <kg4wwn@qsl.net> on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:04AM (#6781965) Journal
      Um, what about the people who use the internet anonymously as a form of political expression because they're afraid of retribution if it is known what they're saying? What about the people who want to express things about themselves that, while perfectly legal and healthy, are not in tune with their community's standards and if they were discussing openly could lead to loss of job or even a lynch mob? I think your cure is worse than the disease, although I agree it would cure it.
  • by Quizo69 ( 659678 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:44AM (#6781890) Homepage
    I monitor my father's email as well as my own, since he was a bit naive when he started out on the internet and got his email address in a bunch of spam lists.

    Since the NZ guy got shut down, he's had about 1 spam a day (in Australia, close to NZ). I've been using Mailwasher to bounce all his spam, figuring eventually his email would show up in the spam lists as being dead, and hopefully being removed (other than those lists that don't care who they spam).

    So it would be interesting to see if we can get a sense of the list this guy used, based on geographic proximity to NZ. I figured that maybe he was getting his names from closer to home, but I could be wrong.

    The spam had so many different email addresses as the reply to field that I wouldn't have thought it all came from one guy!

    Quizo69
    • by bedessen ( 411686 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:00AM (#6782341) Journal
      I've been using Mailwasher to bounce all his spam, figuring eventually his email would show up in the spam lists as being dead

      Please stop. Bouncing spam after the delivery phase is not only naive and stupid, but it makes the life of innocent third parties harder. The From: line is nearly 100% guaranteed to have absolutely nothing to do with the persons responsible for the spam. In most cases it's a random third party, this is called a "joe job." When it happens to you, you receive thousands and thousands of these idiotic bounces (in addition to thousands of angry replies and "please remove" messages) from clueless mail software and cluless users. All you are doing is adding to the problem by "bouncing" spam. You are not bouncing it, you are just forwarding it to someone else's inbox. The only legitimate bounce that you can do with spam is during the mail delivery phase, before the connection has closed. As soon as the message has been delivered, that's it: either delete it or possibly submit it to a spam corpus, but for heaven's sake don't try sending it back to either the envelope-sender or the From: line, as both of these are spoofed and invalid.

      "Bouncing" just adds to the spam problem. Stop.

  • Ugly but true.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TygerFish ( 176957 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:57AM (#6781937)
    The original poster wrote that once the spammer who became known shut down his operation, saw a 98% reduction makes an interesing point: if we knew who was sending the spam and who was profiting, we the community could send him enough hate-mail and other forms of revenge for the richer ones to be more content with the money they've already made while the poorer ones might take up more noble pursuits.

    It's a pity that there is, as yet, no elegant, widely-known mechanism for finding the people who are the source of spam. God, one of *them* unable to use email without having to learn to use complex filters to get his messages.

    I would *pay* to see that.

  • by cowlum1 ( 685203 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @01:58AM (#6781942)

    I read the original article and all the followups. The important part here is the spammer in question agreed to being interviewed...
  • anything - really? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:08AM (#6781989)
    This needs to be publicised, as anything which slows down spam can only be a good thing.

    So you're saying it'd be OK to murder the spammer too?
    • by zulux ( 112259 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @09:38AM (#6783453) Homepage Journal
      So you're saying it'd be OK to murder the spammer too?

      Let say this spammer sends out a 6 million messages a day, causeing a million people to spend ten seconds deleting the message. That's 416 hours of lost time per day - do that for a year, and it's as if 10 people lost all the time in their natural born lives.

      It's it right that he can do this? Ten lives were lost, just spread out over many people.

  • by tinrobot ( 314936 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:10AM (#6781995)
    Sure he shut down his operation, but he was probably making a TON of money through spamming. My guess is that he will lie low for a while, change his name/address/whatever, then fire up the spam servers once again... and if not him, someone else will step into the vacuum.

    One guarantee... If there's a profit to be made, people will do anything for a buck..
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:17AM (#6782018)
    Hate to say it, but in this case, vigilante type action seems to have had the desired result.

    This is hardly vigilantism - people called to complain (aside from a few kooks who made death threats) about his actions and how it affected them. The spammer realized the error of his ways.

    Now, getting a dozen geeks with baseball bats together and beating a few spammers, while fun, would be vigilantism.
  • by brooks_talley ( 86840 ) <brooks@frn[ ]om ['k.c' in gap]> on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:28AM (#6782063) Journal

    This needs to be publicised, as anything which slows down spam can only be a good thing.

    Things which would slow down spam, but which most of us would not consider to be "good things.":

    • Massive DoS attacks against root name servers or other infrastructure that significantly impair the operation of the Internet
    • "Upstream readers": a new policy where you are charged $1.50 per email sent. Funds go to a government organization which all mail must be routed through. Bureaucrats read your outgoing mail and decide if it's worthy of being on the Internet.
    • More to the point: vigilante gangs start killing people who are rumored to be spammers. Thousands of innocents die, but possibly a few genuine spammers as well.

    Come on, people. Aren't techies, of all people, smart enough to see that "the ends justify the means" is *not* a valid rationale?

    Cheers
    -b

  • by zcat_NZ ( 267672 ) <zcat@wired.net.nz> on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:28AM (#6782065) Homepage
    We've outed and shut down one minor spammer.

    The Register of Known Spam Operations [spamhaus.org] lists nearly two hundred more hard-core spammers, along with everything the anti-spam people have been able to find out about them. Check the list, see if any are in your area, and take whatever action you feel is 'appropriate'.

  • Maybe not.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by craigtay ( 638170 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:46AM (#6782136) Journal
    I don't think the drop in spam is because of this guy in New Zealand, I think its due to AOL's new spam busting software! Go AOL!
  • by defile ( 1059 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @03:00AM (#6782174) Homepage Journal

    OK this is great news. One weapon that works wonders against spammers is by making them known. The closer you can get to making a spammer walk around his/her neighborhood with the word "SPAMMER" on their foreheads, the better the results.

    Eventually, all of these individuals will stop after they meet the fed up people who will threaten bodily harm or worse because of spam.

    The world becomes spam free. Being a spammer is just too dangerous. That is, too dangerous for anyone but the mob.

    Then we'll be up shit creek.

  • by dzym ( 544085 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @03:19AM (#6782226) Homepage Journal
    Not according to my graph [despayre.org] it hasn't.

    Perhaps too much of a bit of wishful thinking there?

  • No change here (Score:3, Informative)

    by pugdk ( 697845 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:16AM (#6782376) Homepage
    My amount of spam is exactly the same as the previous couple of weeks... so much for this (weak) story. I think we need to "take out" more than one spammer for people to really notice a difference. -pug
  • by mattr ( 78516 ) <mattr&telebody,com> on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:31AM (#6782424) Homepage Journal
    Nope, I had 200 emails to delete this a.m. So how do I find the guy sending me all this shit?
    I've done lots of detective forays and unsubscriptions but the spam just keeps coming.

    I'm thinking it would be useful if I could forward say a hundred spams to an address which would analyze them with other people's spam and figure out the top targets for detective work. Then when anybody gets enough energy/anger to do some calling around everybody benefits.. a kind of spammer scalping engine.

    Wasn't there a story about some guy in Argentina recently? Go for it!
  • No change here. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:40AM (#6782445) Journal
    I haven't noticed a difference outside of what can be considered 'statistical noise' in my daily spam load. SpamAssassin (or rather the procmail filter that catches what's flagged) puts spam sent to me in a spam trap, from there it's easy to count the number coming in. SpamAssassin is still catching a veritable torrent of spam.

    Funnily enough, SpamAssassin is also flagging the Win32/SoBig worm as spam. It's in the DCC (distributed checksum clearinghouse) and has a number of other 'spammy' features, such as obviously forged From: address and malformed datestamps. Not that it'd run on Linux anyway :-]
  • no change (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @05:48AM (#6782608)
    I run a very conservative mail server for about 340 accounts. I'm running 2-3 RBLs with no content filtering. We have a virtually non-existent rate of blocking legit mail.

    Mail stats in the last 24 hours:

    Rejected mail: 5,629
    Accepted mail: 2,082

    Because of our conservative blacklisting, the RBLs are probably only about 80% effective at best, we still hovered around our usual 28% legitimate mail traffic, verses 72% spam. (This also doesn't include worm messages which wouldn't have been relay-blacklisted so it's likely even worst.) Nothing seems to have changed, or it's not enough to be noticeable.

    Everything they say about spam clogging the Internet is true. Based on my own stats, for a server that is generally below the radar running very legitimate web and e-commerce operations and a few select POP3 mailboxes, a vast majority of the bandwidth we use is undesireable crap. Imagine the improved performance of the net if we could actually make a dent in stopping the spamming sleazebags from clogging our pipes!
  • by jolshefsky ( 560014 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @07:54AM (#6782874) Homepage
    Hate to say it, but in this case, vigilante type action seems to have had the desired result

    This got me to thinking. The thing I hate most about spam is that there is no way to contact the seller to let them know you're not interested--ever. When you annoy people and give them no power to respond, they'll eventually come after you and your kids. I'm always amazed to find that spammers don't know that people are angry about their behavior, but I figure they've never heard from someone who they sent a message to.

    Maybe they just think their "customers" are the people who give them money ... then what do you even call the people who receive the spam?

    I guess I'm also amazed to think that nobody can come up with good legislation. Yes, we should be able to send messages anonymously--including business people--but the limit should be when that correspondence becomes harassment.

    It's like if you put a sign in someone's yard--anonymously, without asking--and they tore it down, very few people would compain (at least not vehemently.) If you put ten signs in their yard every day for years, they'd probably kill you if they caught you. Is the answer to make a law banning putting a sign in someone's yard?

  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:41AM (#6783955) Homepage Journal
    I was beginning to think something was wrong with my email..

    Im so used to seeing them flood in, when i DONT get anything ... its ... wierd ...
  • drop off in spam (Score:5, Informative)

    by jqh1 ( 212455 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @10:56AM (#6784071) Homepage
    for what it's worth, the stats at spamgourmet.com [spamgourmet.com] confirm a drop off in spam the last couple of days. (if you look at the graphs, note that there was a server move near the beginning of July that accounts for the big drop and spike at that time).

    Are we saying, beyond the featured shutdown, that SoBig, etc. have actually taken the *spammers* out of commission for awhile -- not only by clogging mail servers, but by infecting and disabling their boxes?

  • My Spam Stats (Score:5, Informative)

    by waldoj ( 8229 ) * <waldo@@@jaquith...org> on Monday August 25, 2003 @12:21PM (#6784774) Homepage Journal
    Here are my spam stats, generated with Rob Park's excellent mboxstats [ualberta.ca]:

    Jul 01, 2003 102
    Jul 02, 2003 84
    Jul 03, 2003 83
    Jul 04, 2003 87
    Jul 05, 2003 64
    Jul 06, 2003 62
    Jul 07, 2003 81
    Jul 08, 2003 95
    Jul 09, 2003 73
    Jul 10, 2003 90
    Jul 11, 2003 88
    Jul 12, 2003 84
    Jul 13, 2003 77
    Jul 14, 2003 110
    Jul 15, 2003 122
    Jul 16, 2003 112
    Jul 17, 2003 84
    Jul 18, 2003 112
    Jul 19, 2003 103
    Jul 20, 2003 83
    Jul 21, 2003 92
    Jul 22, 2003 89
    Jul 23, 2003 103
    Jul 24, 2003 86
    Jul 25, 2003 91
    Jul 26, 2003 90
    Jul 27, 2003 66
    Jul 28, 2003 98
    Jul 29, 2003 92
    Jul 30, 2003 95
    Jul 31, 2003 98
    Aug 01, 2003 97
    Aug 02, 2003 93
    Aug 03, 2003 66
    Aug 04, 2003 83
    Aug 05, 2003 80
    Aug 06, 2003 76
    Aug 07, 2003 107
    Aug 08, 2003 85
    Aug 09, 2003 59
    Aug 10, 2003 63
    Aug 11, 2003 75
    Aug 12, 2003 63
    Aug 13, 2003 68
    Aug 14, 2003 71
    Aug 15, 2003 58
    Aug 16, 2003 75
    Aug 17, 2003 63
    Aug 18, 2003 51
    Aug 19, 2003 34
    Aug 20, 2003 62
    Aug 21, 2003 60
    Aug 22, 2003 66
    Aug 23, 2003 67
    Aug 24, 2003 64
    Aug 25, 2003 65


    There's no getting around it -- the quantity of spam that has decreased in the past couple of weeks.

    Note that the corpus is my UCE folder for my primary e-mail address. I do not use any RBLs to block, but I do use SpamAssassin to filter, and then I hand-review my UCE folder daily, weeding out viruses and the occasional legitimate message.

    -Waldo Jaquith

    In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. In order for Slashdot's garbage filter to let this post through, I need this really long line to bring up the average line length. Sorry about that.
  • by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportlandNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Monday August 25, 2003 @02:22PM (#6785984) Homepage Journal
    is to force the companies that allow spam to pay for and honor a 'do not spam' list.
    Sure spammer can move, but the companies that have the bandwidth to allow people to send out that kind of data are few.

Two can Live as Cheaply as One for Half as Long. -- Howard Kandel

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