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SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy
Posted by
michael
on Fri Dec 13, 2002 04:17 PM
from the yahoo-knows-you're-a-dog dept.
from the yahoo-knows-you're-a-dog dept.
simeonbeta2 writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is running a story about Pac Bell's dsl partnership with Yahoo. Initially touted as a new service, Pac Bell is apparently now mailing existing dsl customers to urge them to install additional client software that will enable 'incredible new features and services'. While SBC's privacy policy is not excessively intrusive, use of the new software is covered by Yahoo's privacy policy, which is just a bit more Orwellian." The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
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SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy
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Re:What a surprise! (Score:5, Interesting)
Uh, not exactly. I have had SBC DSL for just over a year now, previously it was speakeasy - before that northpoint/covad.
I moved to PacBell DSL when they installed a CO across the street from my house, and they offered higher speeds off their new equipment than whatever speakeasy DSL equipment my line was previously provisioned on....
anyway - I also happen to have and use a yahoo email account. I have had this email account since 1996 or 1997.
I am now seeing a redirection to a FULL SCREEN advertisment from SBC & Yahoo when I log into my account from my home machine.
Basically they check the IP thats logging into the yahoo account - and if its an SBC provisioned IP - they first redirect you to this AD. It sucks.
Yes you can close the AD pretty quickly, but its still bugs me for many many reasons here are some:
1) I never signed up for Yahoo/SBC DSL. So I dont want the ads that people who signed up for this package are subjected to. *Especially* since they signed up at a lower rate than I pay because of the promotion. If they are going to show me these ADs I should pay the same as the Yahoo/SBC DSL subscribers.
2) My account on both SBC/PacBell DSL and Yahoo Mail PREDATES any of these policies - and in some cases predates the *existance* of SBC-PacBell as a merged company. I agreed to certain things when i signed up years ago for Yahoo, but apparently since the laws are so fucked up - if you agree to a contract these days - you also agree that the other party can make any changes, any time for any reason to any part of the contract you agree to - and you are not required to re-examine any terms and re-agree to anything. That's bull shit.
3) There is no switch for me to turn this option off - I wasnt asked if I wanted it - I cant "opt-out". The way I feel is that I should show up to their offices and hit them in the face with a shovel. They didnt opt-out of the shovel in the face program I run.
4) It is pretty much fact that this type of forced marketing doesnt work too well. Show me any users who actually read the ad - and show me the click-through numbers on these ads. Show me the *actual* conversion ratio. I'd bet its not even enough to make the whole effort worth while.
Basically, I would like to see the Yahoo agreement I entered into way back in 1997. I also want to see the SBC agreement I entered from last year - and I want to see if they allow for this sort of thing. I doubt that in '97 the agreement I actually clicked "I Agree" on says that I agree to bend over and get fucked in the ass by any affilate Yahoo ever decides to every do any sort of marketing arangement with.
so its not as simple as saying "its up to the user to read the policies that they agree to with any company"
HOLY CRAP!! (Score:5, Funny)
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it even news?
Re:DirecTVDSL is out of business... (Score:4, Insightful)
Modems... (Score:3, Insightful)
Comcast...grumble...
I went through the same thing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Finally they started bombarding me with emails that extolled the virtues of the new software. My guess is when you install it then it checks you off on the master list on the server that you installed it, nevermind if you never needed to or didn't care at all. Finally after trying to register on the web site and failing miserably, I just called and cancelled the account. And ya know what? My spam amount is down 95% since then
Re:I went through the same thing... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, and I will say it. Smaller ISPs are wonderful, except they always get bought out by large ISPs, and then you get screwed. It's happened to me three times. Now there are no local ISPs left in my area.
No Linux Client (Score:3, Interesting)
this new service. I have dsl via pppoe on a linux
box running as a vpn router, and I use mozilla/phoenix
as my browser.
I tried going to the web page on the flyer, but it
just doesn't do anything.
I wonder what happens if I never sign up for this
yahoo service? Guess we'll see eventually.
reporters research? (Score:3, Funny)
Don't need it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Whenever I see one of their commercials... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Whenever I see one of their commercials... (Score:4, Funny)
Americo-Australianian relations are at an all-time low.
[talks over a slide show]
As I'm sure you remember, in the late 1980s the US experienced a short-lived infatuation with Australian culture. For some bizarre reason, the Aussies thought this would be a permanent thing. Of course, it wasn't.
[a slide shows "Yahoo Serious Festival"]
Lisa: I know those words, but that sign makes no sense.
Just sign here, don't worry, we'd never enforce it (Score:5, Insightful)
The buyer protests "But you said that was just a formality." The agent says "That's right--it is a formal, binding legal contract enforceable in a court of law."
In real life, when it is honestly a negotiating situation, when I see things I really don't like in contracts I test them. "Can I strike this out?" "Can I write here, 'I have sixty-day return privileges and ask you to initial it?'" The results are very unpredictable. When the clause really IS just boilerplate that they don't actually plan to use, very often they will be perfectly agreeable, and you can get the verbal understanding down on paper. But occasionally, they'll freak out--that clause is in there for a reason and they've been ordered not to let anyone mess with it.
Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and click-through stuff is a situation where you really have any power or any ability to negotiate. You can't strike out clauses and see if they'll agree to accept them.
Nevertheless, it's a very good idea to assume that contracts really do mean what they say and that all the fine print and boilerplate really might become operative someday.
Re:Just sign here, don't worry, we'd never enforce (Score:5, Informative)
Is installing a program on more than one computer stealing? Is installing bitkeeper and contributing to cvs without paying $5000 stealing? Is installing a program on a multi-processor box without paying for the multi-processor version stealing? Is using frontpage to make an anti-Microsoft web site stealing?
Existing law makes no provisions for a seller to dictate to a buyer what he may or may not use a product for.
But a EULA does. And if a EULA is equivalent to a binding contract, then it can be enforced as a contract can be.
Twenty years ago no one would ever have considered a EULA the same as a contract--no one signs it, there is no proof of who exactly agrees to it. But no one should underestimate the power of established tradition. As EULA's become more and more ubiquitous, they will become more and more accepted by the legal community. And eventually and gradually, without a single legislature passing any law on the matter, the courts will rule by precedent and make EULA's legally binding. And then you can trust that the consequences of forcing average consumers to agree to long and complex legal documents whenever they want to buy a common consumer good will be felt. The law will intrude even deeper into people's everyday lives, making everyone less free. No, people won't read them more carefully--that's impossible anyway, the EULA's necessary to install something as common as Windows with the necessary updates already includes more pages than the Bible. People won't choose to live as hermits in the woods, either--rather they will simply bend their backs and bear the burdens of a few more laws.
Re:Just sign here, don't worry, we'd never enforce (Score:5, Insightful)
This should be hammered into every person - there is no such thing as "boilerplate" in a contract. There is a REASON for EVERY SINGLE WORD (unless the attorney who prepared it is guilty of malpractice) It doesn't "become operative someday" - it is in force the second you agree to it. You may not understand the purpose of all the text in the contract, but the attorneys who prepared it do, and will enforce it if you arouse their ire.
Shhhhhocking! (Score:4, Funny)
They're just bundling in consumer profiling into the ISP, so people basically pay to be advertised to under the guise of having a homepage that displays things they're interested in (and apparently everyone is interested in consumer goods, top 40 music, and celebrity gossip). Obviously this is a staggering innovation, perhaps patent worthy (if Amazon hasn't beaten them to the punch, natch).
The whole scheme is just retarded and I had a nice chuckle when SBC (my ISP...) emailed me offering a free (!) upgrade to Yahoo!DSL. Fortunately this "service" isn't supported under Linux, so I could use it even if I wanted to.
The Note (and my opinion) (Score:4, Informative)
*begin note*
Dear SBC DSL Internet Services Member,
SBC Internet Services* has been working to improve your member benefits. We've recently joined forces with the world's number one Internet destination -- Yahoo!(R) -- to bring you SBC Yahoo! DSL, a powerful new, feature-rich Internet experience that will replace your existing SBC Internet service.
Upgrade here: http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/upgrade.html
Upgrade to SBC Yahoo! DSL today. We've designed your new service so you can upgrade in just minutes, and of course, upgrade is free. All you have to do is follow the on-screen
instructions. It's that easy. Before you know it, you'll be enjoying a whole new set of nhancements, but 4 important aspects of your account won't be affected by this upgrade:
Your email address will stay the same.
Your monthly price will stay the same.**
Your billing method will stay the same.
Your high speed DSL Internet connection will stay the same.
_
With SBC Yahoo! DSL, you are in control. You have the power to choose which software to download based on the features you want: ***
+ SBC Yahoo! Browser Environment Software
This software package gives you the SBC Yahoo! DSL custom browser with built-in Messenger and LAUNCHcast Radio plus easy access to email, finance, games, and more. In addition, this package also includes Parental Controls and Firewall software.
+ SBC Yahoo! Dial Connection Manager Software
Loading this software gives you unlimited remote dial-up access to your account, so you have the ability to log in
with your existing email and password even when you're on
the road.
+ SBC Connection Manager Software (coming early 2003)
This software includes a large set of support tools that monitor, test, and repair your DSL connection to ensure high-quality service. In addition, the SBC Connection Manager will diagnose any connection problems and provide automated help to resolve the issue.
Mac users can also upgrade to the SBC Yahoo! DSL experience.
Download for Mac users is coming soon.
_
Once you upgrade... you'll receive incredible new features and services, including:
+ A home page you can customize to give you the information and features you want.
+ Email account with 25MB of online storage space.
+ 10 FREE additional email addresses - each with 10MB online storage space.
+ 110MB of online storage with SBC Yahoo! Photos and Briefcase.
+ 3 premium listings in both SBC Yahoo! Classifieds and SBC Yahoo! Auctions.
+ 2 select premium services like Bill Pay and Games memberships.
+ 20% discount on additional Premium Services in select categories.
Don't wait. Upgrade now and start enjoying your enhanced Internet experience right away. And be sure to check your email for additional information about your account update.
Upgrade here: http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/upgrade.html
P.S. Remember - your email address stays the same, your monthly price stays the same, your billing method stays the same, and your high speed DSL Internet connection stays the same. Act now. It only takes a few minutes to upgrade to the custom features of SBC Yahoo! DSL.
If you have any questions please go to http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/ for additional
information. For technical support please call:
1-877-SBC-DSL5
* Pacific Bell Internet Services, Nevada Bell Internet Services, Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Ameritech Interactive Media Services, SNET Diversified Group and Prodigy Communications, L.P.
** Your basic monthly price does not change during your existing term commitment.
*** Download of software is not required for the upgrade.
Download available for Windows users with
Internet Explorer 5.0 or above. Mac users can also upgrade to the SBC Yahoo! DSL experience. Download for Mac users is coming soon. Minimum systems requirements are provided online for the options you choose to download.
SBC Yahoo! DSL is an information service that combines DSL transport, Internet access and applications from SBC Internet Services, with customized content, services, and applications from Yahoo! Inc., to provide the customer with
high-speed broadband access to the World Wide Web. Further details on offers/packages provided during enrollment and registration. Acceptance of Terms of Service required.
Yahoo!, the Yahoo! logo and other Yahoo! logos and product and service names are the trademarks and/or registered trademarks of Yahoo! Inc. SBC, the SBC logo and all other SBC logos and product and service names are the trademarks and/or registered trademarks of SBC Properties, L.P. All
other brand names may be trademarks or registered
trademarks of their respective owners.
(c) 2002 SBC Properties, L.P. and Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy: http://yahoo.sbc.com/privacy
*end note*
My thoughts: I don't think I'm going to "upgrade". From the note at the bottom about "your price will not change during your term commitment", I'm thinking that it's a trial of a more expensive service. I staying with the regular service. My server computer runs Mozilla on FreeBSD anyway. I don't need any of the Yahoo stuff.
NOTE: This post was edited to pass the "Lameness/Junk" filter. Slashdot didn't like the long horizontal lines that were in the Email.
NOTE2: This post was edited to pass the "too few characters for line" filter. Slashdot didn't like the way the lines were broke up.
SBC, CPNI, and targeting small ISPs (Score:5, Informative)
> Your email address will stay the same.
>Your monthly price will stay the same.**
>Your billing method will stay the same.
> Your high speed DSL Internet connection will stay the same.
"**"? Why did I just instinctively reach for my wallet?
>[...]With SBC Yahoo! DSL, you are in control. You have the power to choose which software to download based on the features you want: ***
"***"? ...and my firewall? :-)
Interestingly enough, just a few weeks ago, I got a snail mailing regarding an opportunity to opt out of SBC's sell^H^H^Hharing of my CPNI (Customer Proprietary Network Information) data.
Unless I opted out, SBC promised that it would dutifully use the record of every phone number I dialled to figure out what sorts of crap^H^H^H^Hexciting products and services I might be interested in.
I wondered how the fuck a phone company could use that, and then I realized that if SBC is partnering up with Yahoo in order to provide DSL, that going through every phone user's CPNI records to target ad campaigns to users of competing (dial-up) ISPs would be a perfect application of this.
After all, with CPNI data, SBC could easily send "u wan2 swtch frm AOL" mailings to AOL users, "Tired of seeing Sky Dayton buggering the rotting corpse of Mindspring/Netcom every day?" mailings to Earthlink users of Mindspring or Netcom POPs, and "Why are you still with these small-timers" to users of independent/local ISPs.
Rant: I hate telcos. I hate marketroids. They seem to feed off each other, in an evil, sickening way that makes spammers seem honest by comparison.
At any rate, if you do business with SBC, I'd strongly recommend that you opt-out [sbc.com] of having your calling records used for marketing purposes. (You'll need a copy of your phone bill to use that link. A few days later, you'll get a receipt in the snail-mail confirming your opt-out. No word on how long it lasts, but knowing the DMA, you'll probably have to jump through the hoop on at least an annual basis. )
There is more here than you think. (Score:4, Interesting)
I was involved in a DSL project in Japan that used a piece of third-party software that was, essentially, a program that would examine your system and create a file that contained things like OS, Memory, CPU, Disk Size, monitor type, and anything else like this that it could find out.
This file was supposed to sit there until the DSL provider requested it behind the scenes. The purpose? Database Marketing. By knowing how old your system is, they can target you for new system sales. By knowing how small your monitor is, they can target you for sale of a bigger one. And so on.
I left before I heard about successful launch. So I don't know if it ever went live. But do _NOT_ for one minute believe that there is "nothing to this kind of report." I've seen it. I can't say for sure that this is, in fact, what the Yahoo!DSL in the US is up to, but let's say it would not surprise me.
Simple Solution (Score:3, Funny)
*locks himself in the bathroom and cries like a baby*
they dont allow servers anymore either (Score:3, Informative)
the new contract prohibits the running of any kind of server on their service.
It wont be long before they start portscanning people and sending off nasty letters like @home did back in the days.
I really dont see what the problem is, they limit your upstream data to around 12/Ks. It's not like anything could clog the network.
Installed SBC/Yahoo as a new customer. (Score:4, Informative)
ITS TRUE! SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS! (Score:5, Funny)
Inevitability... (Score:3)
Well..... (Score:3, Funny)
So what's the point? (Score:3, Funny)
Why A Blanket Policy? (Score:3, Interesting)
> they offer financial services and the like, where
> they may well need financial information from you
> to provide the service.
Why can't they have different policies for different services?
SBC is defiling our nation's pastime (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, there once was a park called Pac Bell. Granted, the name indicated that it was one of those "corporately defiled" stadiums, but it had a nice ring to it. But now we're going to have to call it SBC? [go.com]!?! They have gone too far...
Comapnies need to 1) Stop being so schizophrenic, and 2) go away.
Okay, you can mod me -1: Offtopic now