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Library Censorware Blocks Own Site
Posted by
timothy
on Sat Nov 23, 2002 02:40 PM
from the poignant-and-fleshy dept.
from the poignant-and-fleshy dept.
squiggleslash writes "The Daily Dayton News reports that a demonstration of a new website for a library in Piqua, Ohio, went horribly wrong when the site was blocked by the library's own censorware. Why? Because the library, founded by and named after businessman Leo Flesh 70 years earlier, had the domain name www.fleshpublic.lib.oh.us. And that key word, 'Flesh,' was a no-no as far as Flesh Public Library's copy of Net Nanny was concerned." And for an extra dose of tragicomic priority reversal, the library actually decided to change its domain name rather than have Net Nanny fix the erroneous blocking. I hope no one at the library wants to read about the fleshpots of Egypt.
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Library Censorware Blocks Own Site
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Re:Ummm.... (Score:5, Interesting)
The American Library Associate is fighting the law in the U.S. Supreme Court:
http://www.ala.org/cipa/ [ala.org]
Re:Ummm.... (Score:5, Informative)
The American Library Associate is fighting the law in the U.S. Supreme Court:
Yes, and they won [ala.org]. Several months ago.
Re:Ummm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Bad analogy. A howitzer would be a supremely effective way to remove an ant pile.
In this case, though, the problem is that the software blocks legitimate sites while letting pornography sites through. This is more like attempting to use a howitzer to remove an ant pile, missing the ant pile completely, and hitting your own house, after which the ants move in set up an even bigger ant pile in the smoking crater where your house used to be.
Quick! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Quick! (Score:5, Funny)
Our library was worse (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, what do you expect? (Score:5, Funny)
That's a story about men entering a horse.
Wrong kind of fix (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wrong kind of fix (Score:5, Funny)
Just ban "free" (Score:5, Funny)
"We banned ourselves" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"We banned ourselves" (Score:5, Funny)
Manager type: "Mr. Tech! Why didn't you tell us we had a pornographic domain name!"
Mr. Tech: "Er, because we don't?"
Manager type: "I can't believe you call yourself a tech! Our Net Nanny software clearly says that our domain name is pornographic. Don't you know anything about domain names?"
Mr. Tech: "Sure, you mean like the fact that the system is a way for mapping names to IP addresses?"
Manager type: "Nevermind that! Quick, change our domain name! We don't want to be listed as pornography!"
Mr. Tech: "Er, OK, sure."
Manager type: "By the way, what is our IP address?"
Mr. Tech: "214.57.69.0/24"
Manager type: "What? Are you kidding? You picked a *pornographic IP address*? What kind of tech are you? NetNanny says that addresses that include 69 are pornographic! You're fired!"
Mr. Tech: "Thank god for that."
Cheers
-b
I guess these are next... (Score:5, Funny)
Cosmic Pussycat Designs [cosmicpussycat.com] (okay, maybe this one should be banned)
you get the idea...
Re:I guess these are next... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I hope the also don't care about..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Still, gotta love that quote "we banned ourselves." Too bad no lesson was learned.
Not Serious? (Score:3, Insightful)
NASA pornography (Score:5, Informative)
Also (in)famous was AOL blocking discussion of "breasts" as in "breast cancer." another software package blocked women's political groups like NOW, for reasons unknown other than perhaps some twisted political agenda. When this was announced by ahacker, the publisher went ballistic with charges of reverse engineering, etc. Scary but true.
Currently before the Supreme Court (Score:5, Informative)
-R
Websense (Score:5, Interesting)
Archive.org [slashdot.org] is a "proxy avoidance system"
everything2.com [slashdot.org] is "Tasteless"
Among other categories: Non-Traditional Religion, Drugs, Alternative Journals, Political Groups, Financial Services, and Activist Groups.
Makes doing research on anything hell.
Re:Websense (Score:5, Insightful)
How much library censorware does it take to censor (Score:3, Interesting)
if the library's censorware censored the library's own site, how did the librarians find out about the censoring without bypassing the censorware?
Uhh... (Score:5, Funny)
Three months of work? Are you fucking kidding me? [lib.oh.us]
Re:Uhh... (Score:5, Funny)
ARGH (Score:4, Funny)
I argued with the principle for 15 minutes. He'd just repeat "You were accessing bad Internet numbers.". I tried so hard to explain about the concept of images residing under different hosts being shown in innocent web pages, yet he wouldn't listen. I then explained that he should probably learn to understand the technology before punishing me for using it. That didn't get through to him at all. I soon found myself explaining to him that I was amazed that somebody so ignorant, arrogant and most of all retardedly stupid could become the principle of a high school. So I got suspended.
2 months later I had to see the principle again. "Please design the school webpage for us..".
Re:ARGH (Score:5, Funny)
Well, come on. Don't leave us hangin' like that... Did you?
Re:ARGH (Score:4, Funny)
It's not a terrible thing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's not a terrible thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I can see them requiring an ID to see the magazines, but shouldn't you be able to get past Net Nanny with an ID too?
TW
Re:It's not a terrible thing... (Score:5, Informative)
You can.
Because Penthouse does not fit in with the mission of a library.
It certainly does.
If your local library has an inadaquate collection I suggest you try a bigger library. Worst case you can always get it at the Library of Congress. [loc.gov] (Enter PENTHOUSE as search title and check the second result. I'd give you a direct link but their search engine uses moronic web sessions with temporary URL's that time-out.)
LC Control Number: 73640721
Type of Material: Serial (Periodical, Newspaper, etc.)
Uniform Title: [Penthouse (New York, N.Y.)]
ISSN: 0090-2020
LC Classification: AP2
Dewey Class No.: 051
I don't have a problem with a library using some form of control to block access to sites that lie outside of the mission of a public library.
I agree 100%, chuckle. Therefore libraries should have unrestricted access to the entire internet and carry as much printed material and other media as physically possible. INCLUDING access to Penthouse.com and a copy of Penthouse Volume 1 Issue 1. I may as well piss off a few Europeans while I'm at it and specificly include Hitler's autobiography Mein Kampf.
If you think you the right to say some material is offensive and not within the mission of a library then you better damn well expect ME to have the same right. I'd start with the Bible, it's filled with sex, violence, even incest! Can't get much more offensive than incest! After that I'd ban all the other religion's holy books too. (It wouldn't be very fair to discriminate against just one religion.)
-
Home of Jerome Hurwitz Elementary School! (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.davpilkey.com/ too.
Cencorship is wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
If I were running a library (which I'm not), of course I wouldn't cencor the internet...I would let the people look at whatever they wanted. I would moniter their activities preiodically, and if I suspected the resources were being abused, I would simply stop the service for that individual.
Anyway you look at it, cencorship is a crackpot solution to problems that should be dealt with using more care than people are willing to put forth.
Re:Cencorship is wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
Similarly, while I believe various soft drugs should be decriminalized, I also feel that it would be inappropriate to use them in certain instances. I wouldn't want to see people snorting lines of coke at the library, for example. That's called being personally responsible, and as long as we make the State responsible for enforcing good behavior, we will never learn to be responsible ourselves.
Freedom includes the right to learn to be personally responsible, often by making mistakes.
Local pronounciations will get you... (Score:5, Funny)
When I went home that year for Christmas my parents got all embarrassed when I announced in front of family and their friends that I would go to the Heyman Center for a good time.
Think of the Children! (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, people who want to access porn will probably still find a way to do so, rendering this software useless.
Sure, censoring information for any reason is one of the first steps to becoming a facist state.
BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!
This is crazy (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly people are making a much bigger deal about this stuff. Porn was easy enough to get when I was a kid a decade and a half ago, the fact that the net makes it a tad easier is moot. What do these folks think, seeing a nipple or the occasional double entry will mutate their kids into criminals?
Please, boys have hormones, they will get access to this stuff one way or another. It's when you force them to supress it and repress their emotions and hormones that they start acting out and punching chicks rather than chasing them. It's perfectly healthy for kids to know about sex, how it's done and more importantly why. The more these leftists fight it the worse off our kids are.
Libraries are for kids to explore (Score:4, Insightful)
However supervision or trust is not the answer either. What I remeber most about the public library as a kid was it was a place for me to explore. ANd more specificall explore on my own without hovering supervision. freedom for me in a place my parents knew was safe. See what I could find that was new and interested me. Sometime it was a way to find out about things I'd hear about. Even with a very guilty feeling, try to look up a book about sexual reproduction.
I think having a benign (i.e. safe) place for children to roam a bit and explore things at the fringes of their limits is a great idea. Libraries already fill this role well. They are a well controlled but very open environment.
the problem is the internet lets in a less well regulated world. A world without curation or librarians. And that is something for parents to fear. I dont want to curb adults but I certainly do want to curb my children and to protect them from the evils of the world. THis is common sense.
Parents (Score:3, Interesting)
Just more of the same old stuff: Let something/someone else do parenting duties. Anything but the actual parent, please!
Seriously, the internet isn't a good place for children to begin with. Supervise them yourself. If you can't, don't let them on, because clearly filtering software is garbage. And the internet is NO place for kids!
Quit being shitty parents.
Poor USA (Score:3, Insightful)
This gives me an idea... (Score:3, Funny)
Do the same with compassionate conservatism lingo, pro-life web sites, NRA... and see how fast NN get's brabded as part of a vast left wing conspiracy.
Block my website as well? (Score:4, Funny)
Damn the luck.
An Idea Made Flesh (Score:4, Interesting)
The only thing that "works" with stopping inappropriate Internet browsing in the public library is the common control of citizens. If you see a kid surfing for pygmy lesbian cheerleaders (which he should do at home, like I do), stop him from doing it. If the confrontation gets awry, just resort to a librarian and perhaps a security guard. Problem solved.
My local library system has browsers that always come up with the same startup page, which is a yes/no statement of understanding. It says that if you surf for the nasty stuff, the library can boot you off the computer and even out of the library, and perhaps can even confiscate your first-born child when you get one.
That the library that censored its own website -- and then changed its domain name to avoid being filtered -- was in deep Ohio, is hardly surprising. It's in the flyover. Don't expect much to come out of Ohio but tomatoes, corn and grapes. (Oh, and also call centers to handle support and billing calls before an Indian company is found to handle the work at 1/2 the price.)
Why not an opensource solution? (Score:5, Interesting)
1) The list of blocked sites and algorithms is available.
2) The community would probably make available separate levels of filtering. Like, maybe a whitelist appropriate for little kids, something else for schools and a narrow list for purposes like libraries.
3) It would be freely available, so politically motivated censorware like NetNanny would see its market eliminated.
Yes, I know this proposal is evil, because it is caving into a bad law. But guess what, the law ins't that unreasonable, it's just that the implementations are downright awful. Most libraries would probably choose to have a modest filter (known porn sites for the most art, maybe all-numeric IPs) than nothing.
Many parents would like to have moderate filtering to kill things like obscene links hidden in slashdot discussions. I mean, even if you're surfing the net w/ your kids, how does it help with stuff like that?
This NetNanny keyword based, politally motivated filtering is A Bad Thing. And a law requiring libraries to install filtering software is A Bad Thing. But, a good, user controlled, community built filtering software is absolutely, positively, a good thing.
Re:What do you suggest we do? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What do you suggest we do? (Score:3, Interesting)
A) Monitor them closer
B) Trust them
C) Ban them from all things that may put bad thoughts into their heads
A and B are good solutions. C is the solution that censorware takes...the easy way out. When are people going to step up as parents and take responsibility for their kids instead of pointing fingers? Personally, I would tell them how I feel about the matter and trust them. If they want to look at porn, the internet is just one of many ways to go about doing it. I'm sure kids still steal their dads' magazines and show them to all their friends.
Re:What do you suggest we do? (Score:5, Funny)
Have them ummm, errr, read books? Gasp! Shriek! Oh, the inhumanity!