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Wayback Machine Purged of Scientology Criticism
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Sep 24, 2002 05:28 PM
from the hey-what's-a-little-black-ink dept.
from the hey-what's-a-little-black-ink dept.
muldrake writes "The Wayback Machine, an archive of websites as they appeared in their past incarnations, is reported by CNET in this story as having censored the Scientology-critical Xenu.net, in a repeat of the heavy-handed tactics used against Google as reported in this previous Slashdot thread."
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Wayback Machine Purged of Scientology Criticism
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Bigger news (Score:3, Interesting)
Just another in a series. (Score:4, Funny)
What the hay? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's one thign to believe in an all powerful deity that created the universe.
It's another thing to believe in a book that some guy wrote, because some other guy bet that he couldn't create a religeon.
Doesn't anyone have balls anymore?
Re:What the hay? (Score:4, Insightful)
They have a deep understanding of the power and reach of the legal system. They also have deep pockets to finance squelching operations.
Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Interesting)
And where do they get these deep pockets? Not just their members.
Are you on Earthlink? Fact: that ISP was started (and is still operated) by Scientologists.
They have a deep understanding of the power and reach of the legal system.
Not only that, their members are encouraged to lie and deceive. They have used slander and libel against their critics and have blackmailed third parties into making false accusations on record.
Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Insightful)
But you don't and they do. If someone will make it their life's mission to fuck you in ever possible way without relent for all of their existence, would you bother messing with them.
In others its the American way personified, money buys justice, and he with the most money wins.
I used to sneer at blanket statements like that, but anyone who disagrees at this point is living in LaLa-Land.
Re:Consequences. (Score:5, Informative)
Frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened already. But with their present behavior, it's only a matter of time.
Don't even joke about this kind of stuff - Keith Henson was convicted in California of religious intolerance for someone else cracking a joke on alt.religion.scientology about passing by the headquarters of Golden Era Productions (a Scientology front company) with a "Tom Cruise Missile", and published the coordinates for the complex, along with the occasional protest of Scientology orgs. He was convicted, and bolted to Canada. Last I heard, he applied for refugee status.
Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Informative)
The McDonald's case, although popular belief would hold otherwise, was actually a reasonably good decision. The story brought to the jury, which is all that is allowed to be decided upon, goes as such. The lady recieved second and third degree burns all around her lower torso and legs, to the extent that quite a bit of plastic surgery was required. However even including reimbursment for medical bills and pain and suffering the compensatory damage was very small (160,000 USD). I think almost everyone can agree that was probably fair, since it compensates her for her lost time, and expenses. The rest of the judgement was punative, and was intended to punish the McDonalds corporation for their behavior. Keep in mind that the verdict was probably calculated as a result of McDonald's finances. It was later reduced to 3 times compensatory damages.
What sort of behavior would incite a jury to want to punish the company like that? Well, first of all realize that coffee is usually served around 160 F (~71 C), which will not produce the burns she suffered. The coffee was estimated to be about 190 F (~87 C), by medical experts, from the nature and severity of the burns. McDonald's was not errant in keeping their coffee this hot, it was corporate policy. The policy was designed to save money, because hotter coffee lasted longer before dispoal was required. The jury deemed this action so negligent that they decided to punish the company, hense the judgement.
You can read much more than I wish to type here, at a consumer's attorney page here. [lectlaw.com]
Re:What the hay? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe /. will get sued too? (Score:5, Informative)
by Xenu.net
L. Ron Hubbard quote:
"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"
Reader's Digest reprint, May 1980, p.1
Hubbard later created the Church of Scientology...
Based on a text by ex-Scientologist Roland Rashleigh-Berry. Roland wrote: "This is my personal opinion. I grant permission to anyone to reproduce this material. This description has been tailored to people who have never been Scientologists and seek a simple and short explanation as to what it is and why it is surrounded by controversy."
In a Nutshell
The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.
It was started in the 1950s by a science fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard in fulfilment to his declared aim to start a religion to make money. It is an offshoot to a method of psychotherapy he concocted from various sources which he named "Dianetics". Dianetics is a form of regression therapy. It was then further expanded to appear more like a religion in order to enjoy tax benefits. He called it "Scientology".
Scientology is a confused concoction of crackpot, dangerously applied psychotherapy, oversimplified, idiotic and inapplicable rules and ideas and science-fiction drivel that is presented to its members (at the "advanced" levels) as profound spiritual truth.
The Harm it Does to a Person
The results of applying their crackpot psychotherapy (called "auditing") is to weaken the mind. The mind goes from a rational state to an irrational one as the delusional contents of the subconscious mind are brought to the surface and are assumed to be valid. It also makes a person more susceptible to suggestion since it submerges the critical thinking faculties of the mind into a partial subconscious state. It results in a permanent light hypnotic trance and so from thenceforth that person can be more easily controlled. The person will, to a much greater extent, believe and do whatever they are told. And of course this is used to the full in persuading them to hand over further money and dedicating themselves further to the cult.
The results of applying their oversimplified and inapplicable rules in life is to lose the ability to think rationally and logically. A person loses the ability to think for themselves and so they lose the ability to challenge incorrect ideas. This makes them easier to control. It also isolates and alienates the person from society so that they withdraw from normal society and into their "Scientology" society. This further increases their susceptibility to the influence of their group. They end up being afraid of society, believing all society to be controlled by a group of drug companies, psychiatrists and financiers all of whom report to more remote masters. In other words they are in a state of mass paranoia. They therefore avoid reading newspapers and the like since they fear it will disturb their safe Scientology world. It is a downward spiral into madness.
The science fiction content of Scientology is revealed to them after they have reached the state they call "Clear", meaning freed from the aberrations of the mind. However, perhaps "brainwashed" would be a more applicable word to describe the mental state of someone who has survived the near entire delusional contents of their subconscious mind brought to the surface and presented to them as "truth". On the "advanced" levels (called OT levels) above the state of "Clear" they encounter the story of Xenu. Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The souls of these murdered people are then supposed to infest the body of everyone. They are called "body thetans". On the advanced levels of Scientology a person "audits out" these body thetans telepathically by getting them to re-experience their being exterminated by hydrogen bombs. So people on these levels assume all their bad thoughts and faulty memories are due to these body thetans infesting every part of their body and influencing them mentally. Many Scientologists go raving mad at this point if they have not done so already.
The "Ethics" Trap
On the surface the Church of Scientology seems reasonable. The insane content of it is only revealed to a person when the early stuff has done its work and made them more susceptible. After a short while a person "believes" that Scientology is doing them good. They are then persuaded to help their new-found group further by donating money and/or working for the organisation for almost no money. Many people do exactly that.
"Ethics" is used to good effect to trap a person. A person's natural tendency to do good is worked upon. Yes - they want to be more ethical, but what is ethical? This is where a clever trick is pulled! "Ethics" is redefined by Scientology in such a way that to be ethical is to be a better Scientologist and obey the "church". Young people, not yet made cynical through the machinations of life and politics, are very keen to contribute to the world and to be ethical. So the "ethics" trick works easily into persuading them to join the "church". Many of them join an elite group called the "Sea Org" where they become brainwashed slaves. There they work a hundred hour week for almost no pay. There they are subject to every cruel whim of their masters. It is a living hell that they endure because of the conditioning they have received and this now perverted sense of ethics that they have accepted. The "Sea Org" is the ultimate in brainwashed slavery. They are expected to work harder and harder to achieve ever higher targets of production. If they fail to meet their targets there are various penalties. One of them is to be put onto a diet of beans and rice and to miss sleep. Another is to be sentenced to a period on the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force). This is the equivalent to "hard labour". Such is the extent of their brainwashing that they actually write "success stories" when they complete their sentences.
Brainwashing Bites Back
There is no doubt at all that L. Ron Hubbard incorporated brainwashing techniques into Scientology to put people under his control. He even wrote a "brainwashing manual" which is still in existence today. However there was a cruel twist in his scheme. He fell victim of it himself. In creating his devoted slaves, the Sea Org, he created an audience that believed every word he said. Now L. Ron Hubbard had an over-active imagination plus delusions of grandeur. The negative feedback he would obtain by being part of normal society was replaced by the positive feedback from his devoted followers. Through this his imagination got the better of him and combined with his delusions of grandeur, his thinking became increasingly bizarre which, on acceptance, led on to more bizarre thinking and the idea that he and Scientology had the job of saving the entire universe He wanted to take over the world in order to further Scientology's aims to save the universe and so branches of Scientology were set up to try to influence governments and gain positions where they could influence to world to a high degree. So what started out as a mass confidence trick backed up with brainwashing became a monstrous and insane organisation with fantastic, fanatical ideals. Because of this change, the Church of Scientology survived the death of their founder. It is like a runaway monster machine that tramples on society and peoples lives that is very difficult to stop.
Stop the Monster
The whole machinery called the "Church of Scientology" needs to be jammed somehow so that more people do not get sucked in and the people already in it have a chance to get out. We must not forget the people already in this "church". Although they are the ones perpetrating this crime they are also the victims. They need our help as well.
And here we come to the "War on the Internet".
The War on the Internet
The "War on the Internet" is the war between the Church of Scientology and Internet users who copy their documents and post them on the Internet.
The people who are copying their material and webbing it are using the huge accessibility of the world-wide web to get information out to people to warn them of the insanity and danger of this cult. They are doing it for the public good. The hope is that if they can get this information out to the public and make it broadly known then people will be forewarned and will not join the cult. If they can starve the cult of new members in this way then the whole organisation may collapse and then the existing members can be helped to return to society. But of course the people within the cult believe only their own founders interpretation of things so they use every means they can to stop this. Usually the method they use is harassment through lengthy and expensive legal processes. Sometimes it is physical harassment. Sometimes worse!
The people who post and host the copyrighted and confidential works of Scientology are risking themselves to help warn the public about the dangers of Scientology. They have a strong sense of public duty and care for their fellow men. They are breaking copyright laws it is true but they are acting out of conscience and out of high human ideals. As they get broken down by legal or physical harassment more rise to take their place.
I hope this short piece of mine is a befitting and deserving introduction to these people, the "Warriors of the Internet".
In an article to alt.religion.scientology 6. September 1998, parkerbp@webtv.net wrote:
Here's a short summary of my experience with $cientology.
Staff was very friendly with me as a student and pc, as long as I kept forking over the dough for services and "fund raisers."
I joined staff at an org and the attitude of other staff toward me got a little less than friendly.
I joined the Sea Org and put up with alot of crap from staff and LRH's policy because I thought I was helping myself and my fellow man.
I found out I was helping no one and hurting myself. I got out I began surfing the net and found many of my doubts and suspicions about the CO$ were very well founded.
I had been lied to and deceived by the CO$ in order to gain my trust, my money, my loyalty, and dedication to a lost and evil cause.
Now I am dedicated to voice my experiences and opinions of the cult of $cientology.
Want Some Other Old Scientology Links? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.rdrop.com/users/llywrch/essays/mhunt
and
http://www.rdrop.com/users/llywrch/essays/mhunt
(Take care -- in previewing these URLS I notice that the http interface has put a space in them.)
Martin Hunt was, 5 years ago, the most prolific poster to alt.religion.scientology. He tired of the fight on a.r.s., & deleted many of his posts & for a while took down his own website. These two items came from there.
BTW, he returned to a.r.s., & I believe updated these two items. I still have them on my website because I'm too lazy to remove them. Feel free to download & preserve them on your own machines. (And if I get slashdotted, my ISP may remove the links, but you should be able to find them on the way-back machine.)
Enjoy.
Geoff
The ultimate anit-scientology site (Score:5, Informative)
Operation Clam Bake. Wanna know an interestin fact? Scientologists believe we evolved from clams. Hence the name of the site "Clam Bake".
This guy has balls taking on this cult. I'm surprised they have put a hit on him. I mean Travolta was a bad mofo in Pulp Fiction.
more anti-CoS sites (Score:4, Informative)
Is this really supposed to help? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fact: Most people on the net have probably never heard of Xenu.net, either.
Fact: People on the net have, however, heard of major news outlets.
Fact: Censorship is always a great topic for the major news outlets to cover, because it helps portray the image that they would never do such a thing with their coverage.
Conclusion: What was the Church of Scientology thinking? This move will only increase the number of people hitting xenu.net.
Re:Is this really supposed to help? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Is this really supposed to help? (Score:5, Informative)
In a very real way, the Church of Scientology is waging a Crusade on the Internet. Its knights are lawyers, its swords are copyright law, and its Holy Land is an Internet the Church can control.
Well, the Raging Clueless Cult will never silence this heathen. Muahahaha!
Re:Is this really supposed to help? (Score:5, Informative)
Allow me to point to two earlier postings to explain why Scientology does this:
They make enemies because they need enemies [slashdot.org]
Scientology is a pyramid scheme. The product? paranoia. [slashdot.org]
man, i don't get the scientologists (Score:5, Insightful)
i know about xenu.net ONLY because of scientology's fervent attacks on it. if you elevate something up to such consternation, you only ignite everyone else's curiosity about what concerns you so much about something. how does scientology defeat xenu.net? by IGNORING it. letting it fade into obscurity. the more they attack xenu.net, the more we all know about it, "we all" being those who could care less about scientology one way or the other. and therefore, we now all know about scientology's seedy underside. and therefore, us neutrals now DO care about scientology... that is, we don't care much for it! lol
Finally lost one... (Score:4, Informative)
As Wollersheim prepared to expose $cientology's true corporate structure, $cientology paid the $2.5 million, plus stautatory interest of 10% since judgement (hence the $8.6 million award).
Boom! (Score:4, Interesting)
In anti-Scientology [xenu.net] circles this is known as 'Operation Footbullet [xenu.net]' for obvious reasons.
Slashdot.. (Score:3, Funny)
LawMeme Has Suggestions for Archive.org (Score:4, Informative)
God Damn these Scientologists!!! (Score:5, Funny)
SlatkinFraud.com also blocked from ARCHIVE.ORG (Score:5, Informative)
While we understand that the organization behind the Wayback Machine does not want to unwittingly contribute to copyright infringement, we are distressed by the way in which the removal of our site was conducted, and the lack of feedback that we received from archive.org when we questioned this decision earlier this year.
When a Wayback Machine user attempts to access the archived version of SlatkinFraud.com, they are instead provided with a misleading message claiming that the 'site owners' requested that it not be included in the archive. This is wholly untrue, and entirely in contradiction to the actual views of the website owners in question, who would very much like to see our site become part of the Internet Archive. The material contained within SlatkinFraud.com is wholly owned and maintained by its site owners.
Unfortunately, as has become clear in recent days, SlatkinFraud.com is not the only site that has been summarily removed from the Archive based on complaints from the Church of Scientology. In the explanation recently provided by archive.org, the writer notes that the Church "asserted ownership" of an unknown quantity of material that was, at the time, available through the Wayback Machine archives. The maintainers of archive.org, however, have apparently made no effort whatsoever to inform site owners of these complaints lodged against their material, and in fact, until now, had not even replied to direct questions regarding the removal of certain sites when asked by the site owners in question.
This is clearly not an acceptable system for determining what sites or material should be archived by the Wayback Machine, since it does not adhere to one of the main provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act: the counter-notification process.
Under the DMCA, the owner of a site that has been alleged to contain infringing material has the right to challenge that claim via a counternotification letter to the hosting ISP if he or she believes that the material in question does not infringe on the copyright in question. After receiving this counter-notification from the user, the ISP is obliged to replace any files that were temporarily removed pending the complaint, at which point the original complainant must either initiate formal legal action against the owner of the site, or drop the matter entirely.
This system provides an important check to the sometimes perilous balance between the rights of copyright owners, and those of users. By formalizing the process, and allowing a response from the individual responsible for the alleged infringement, it frees the hosting company from the annoyance of dealing with frivolous claims.
A similar situation that arose resulted from similar complaints made by Church of Scientology lawyers about certain listings on the popular search engine Google. These complaints initially resulted in the wholesale removal of several Scientology-related sites from the Google database. Once this omission was discovered, the decision taken by Google to remove the sites without notice led to an outcry from its users. In fact, on closer examination of the complaints from Scientology, it became immediately obvious that the Church's lawyers were acting in bad faith by deliberately mixing trademark and copyright complaints, even though trademark complaints are not covered under the DMCA at all.
The ensuing barrage of criticism and media coverage both national and international forced Google to reconsider its decision. After several days, the company replaced the links in question, and agreed to make public any further DMCA complaints in cooperation with Chilling Effects, a non-profit website dedicated to preventing abuse of existing copyright law. This solution was welcomed by Google users, who had felt betrayed not only by the removal itself, but by the lack of disclosure on the part of Google regarding the initial complaints.
The explanation offered by the Internet Archive does not mention whether the original complaints received from the Church of Scientology were made under the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Such information would be helpful to site owners such as ourselves, as it would assist us in determining whether a complaint is justified, and remove any infringing material on our own volition.
Assuming that it was, in fact, a DMCA request, it would serve archive.org well to follow the same procedure as that eventually and successfully - - adopted by Google, and make every effort to inform site owners of such complaints in a timely manner. This could be done through a simple email alert system that would inform the site owner that a complaint had been made, or through a similar policy to that of Google, and publicizing the letters, either on the archive.org website itself or through an interested third party such as Chilling Effects.
This would allow the site owners to decide whether or not to issue a counter-notification, and relieve the Internet Archive of any concerns over contributory liability that may have played a role in its decision to remove the material without warning. It would also discourage copyright owners from making frivolous complaints about material that is obviously protected by fair use, since the process requires that formal legal action be taken within thirty days of receiving the counter notification letter.
Should archive.org decide not to re-list a site within the Wayback Machine at this point, which is, of course, its right, it should also refrain from suggesting that this was at the request of the site owner, and instead, explain its own concerns over potential infringement.
Finally, given the enormity of the Internet Archive project, and the benefits that it has provided, and, we hope, will continue to provide to the online community, it is essential for the Library maintainers to be open and transparent about the methodology used in selecting sites to be archived. Removing sites from the archive in a clandestine fashion, as dictated by the current policy, will only lead to increased concern that the Archive itself is rewriting the Internet history that it seeks to chronicle.
The Internet Archive's stated commitment is to provide a useful, wide-ranging resource for researchers, historians and scholars. It is surely in part due to such an admirable mandate that the Internet Archive has benefited from contributions from sponsors such as Alexa Internet, AT&T, Compaq and Xerox PARC, not to mention many individual supporters who believe in the idea of an Internet history that is freely accessible to all. It is doubtful that these supporters would want to see this ambitious initiative tainted by the suggestion that the integrity of the archive itself has been corrupted by those who would misuse copyright and trademark laws to censor views with which they disagree. The risk of such silent, selective discrimination against protected speech is great; the power to prevent such abuses by making all information related to such attempts to discriminate will always be greater.
Clearly, the best course of action is for the Internet Archive to adopt policy that is not only transparent, but dedicated to protecting not only its own interests, but those of copyright owners, site creators and, of course, the thousands of individuals who use the Wayback Machine and other Internet Archive services on a daily basis. On balance, the approach taken by Google, modified appropriately for the particular situation faced by the Internet Archive, would seem to be an excellent roadmap for the Internet Archive to follow.
Kady O'Malley [wwwaif.net], Dave Touretzky [cmu.edu], and Scott Pilutik
Owners of Slatkinfraud.com [slatkinfraud.com]
good thing we've got freenet (Score:4, Informative)
freenet:SSK@Zl388MATYv0Ah8GY6I2GuuNJapYPAgM/bor
freenet:SSK@WRhGF3h0ijFh1eVJnFu~H9OyIpAPAgM/a
freenet:SSK@jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0
on freenet [freenetproject.org].
This might be the stark fist of removal (Score:3, Funny)
beware of. It's a much more logical church
than the SoC. Some examples:
"You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think." --Dobbs 1961
"This is the original Time Control program that has helped thousands to fear no longer the STARK FIST of REMOVAL."
"Follow your FOLLIES and COMPULSIONS and become rich like us"
http://www.subgenius.com/
Many many similarities actually. And it's easy
to become an ordained minister. Check it out.
Henson's home invaded just yesterday (Score:5, Interesting)
Fighting back. (Score:3, Informative)
1) Sign up for all the free websites you can. Throw as much scientology material as will fit in the space provided. Get as many people as possible to link to you. As each gets knocked down, keep putting more up. The internet can be faster than Scientology. Don't do this on paid webspace or a website you make money from unless you can afford the financial loss of the site getting pulled.
2) Throw megs and megs of anti scientology materials and "copyrighted" Scientology texts in your Kazaa, Direct Connect, Gnutella, etc. share directories. In Direct Connect, you can have a line that users will see a brief description of what you are offering. MAke sure to put Anti-Scientology there.
3) Get on pro Scientology mailing lists(there have to be a few with open membership) and spam it with anti scientology information. Even if they make it an invite only list in response, you still have won as fewer impressionable minds will randomly join.
Of course, you have to be a little careful especially with the last tactic, don't use your ISP email address.
Interesting thread in the archive.org forums (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I don't get it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, that's not quite accurate. They claim copyright on the work, but simultaneously deny that it's a real "church" document. I've always wondered about that. How can you claim copy rights on something that you swear you didn't create?
I WISH I HADN'T POSTED THIS (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in a quiet cul-de-sac in a small town in Nebraska. This morning, a white late-model Buick Regal (or similar) with Nebraska license plates 7-A4163 pulled up to my neighbor's curb and started taking pictures of my house. The driver, a heavy middle-aged male wearing dark glasses, drove off when I stood up from the breakfast table to get a better look.
Great - I really needed some extra grief in my life right now.
Freenet (Score:3, Insightful)
Scientology is worse than you think (Score:5, Interesting)
The wayback machine situation and the google debacle previously covered on slashdot is just the tip of the iceberg of deception called Scientology.
The efforts to silence criticism cover the the complete gamut of the edges of what society will tolerate.
Time Magazine 1991 [lermanet.com]
Time Magazine was forced to spend 7.5 million defending this suit.
The Judge in the case concluded that Scientology was a cult [lermanet.com].
Don't wonder why there arn't more ex-members speaking out, Scientology has a pattern of conduct of litigation for silence. Look at how much they have spent GAGGING ex-members HERE. [lermanet.com] - Note well: This is just what I have been able to find out
Scientology claimed in its own court filings to have spent 1,700,000 suing me in RTC vs Lerma. Judge Brinkema was so outraged buy their conduct in the case, the raid where the scientologists, themselves, searched my home, [lermanet.com]even when they moved the attorney fees for the for 5/17ths of case that they 'won' { having LOST their TRADE SECRET CLAIMS ) for the story of XENU and the BODY THETANS [lermanet.com].. Judge Brinkema Awarded them ZERO.
Further Google, while running tons of adverts for scientology REFUSES to run mine
Remember this - what we have webbed is only WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT for sure... I've been at this for 8 years trying to expose them [lermanet.com], and even for me, I keep finding out that things that are worse than even I think
You have witnessed just the tip of the iceberg of the Scientology's pattern of conduct to try to intimidate witnesses into silence by extortionate conduct.
Anything you can do to get the word out will be appreciated..
Sincerely,
Arnie Lerma
An Ex-member
PS: Send lawyers and money
Re: Scientology is worse than you think (Score:5, Insightful)
The Catholic Church does not have a policy of "Always attack, never defend.", it does not have an "Office of Special Affairs" that hires P.I.'s. It does not break into government buildings.
They exist soley to collect money (sure they spend some of it on charitable things but what's with the gold goblets, fine linen robes, vast tracks of land, incredible ornate arcitecture, etc)
Soley [For the sole purpose of?] for the purpose of money? Maybe in your eyes. According to your theory all religions that exist outside of a few people's basements is for the purpose of collecting money, because many churches/mosques/temples are on expensive tracts of land and are quite ornate.
They intend to take over the world by converting everyone to their faith and using their vast monetary reserves to pay for votes in government
You're thinking of the Baptist Church. If the Catholic Church bought votes, the only thing that'd be different is there'd be no abortion and condoms would be outlawed. That'd be pretty much it. And it's a bit different from Scientology, in that Hubbard stated that those who cannot become Scientologists must be "disposed of quietly and without sorrow".
The worst the Catholic Church will do is excommunicate you, and once you've reached that point, you probably WANT to be excommunicated.
They encourage their members to NOT read material about other religions, and detractors of the curch
I've never been told by any member of the clergy to avoid reading anything else. In fact, one priest encouraged me to read everything I could about every other religion.
So what's the problem again? Oh yea. the RCC has been around for 1500 or so years, and Scientology is only about 20 years old. Older MUST be better. So why not go back to the oldest religions and worship as the Greeks, or the Chineese? The problem is the following:
1. Scientology tells people they are using a SCIENCE of the mind when they start. There is no SCIENCE in SCIENTOLOGY.
If the Catholic Church claimed that communion was a SCIENCE, everyone would cry bullshit, but it's fine to hook someone up to a low-power TENS unit and induce a trance state and call it "applied religious philosophy" and "technology"?
2. RCC's paid for it's crimes in the past and is paying now. As we post, Churches are closing and priests are having to either ditch the only vocation they've known since they were kids, or leave the communities they care about.
Scientology answers for few of its crimes. Not to mention that they obfuscate the past of their founder and replace it with a fabrication that not only includes falsified stories of Nuclear Engineering and Naval War Injuries, but of travels, and even of his own family, including bigamist marraige practices.
3. If my pockets are empty, I can still recieve Sacraments at any Catholic Church and I can still partake in communion at any protestant church. I'm not sure about other faiths, though. I do know, however, if I go into a Scientology Org and ask to take Dianetics Auditing, they'll ask where the money is. I tell 'em I'm broke, and they ask about credit cards, they want to know if I have any inheritance, or maybe I could take out a third mortgage...ANYTHING...but I can't get anything for free, except the personality test.
It's the money factor. People volunteer their money to the Catholic Church. They won't kick you out if you don't tithe. But the Scientology guys will use ANYTHING to get you to drop some Benjamins.
4. If I fail to show up at mass, I don't get annoying phone calls from guys asking why I haven't been around.
If you don't show up for regular auditing at the local Scientology Org, you will be called daily, and they'll harass family members who "hold you back". And even if you get 'em to stop, they'll still junk mail you.
And finally, most other established religions make no claims to be totally compatable with any other. There is no priest who will tell you that you can be a Wiccan and a Catholic at the same time. There is no Rabbi that'll say you can be Jewish AND a Muslim at the same time.
Scientology claims you can be a Scientlogist and anything else at the same time...and it seems right...until you reach the upper levels and have spent around $500,000 and they tell you L. Ron Hubbard is the Messiah and that all other religions are implants from space aliens.
In closing, there are BIG differences. Don't compare the two. Until you've done battle with Scientology, it doesn't seem as real as it is. And it's worse than you think.
they blocked my ENTIRE web site! (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't exist. I've never existed. I've been erased from Internet history.
All because I dared to have some Scientology material on my web site.
ARCHIVE.ORG boasts a relationship with the Lbrary of Congress and with the National Science Foundation. I wonder if they are receiving any government funding. Surely it is impermissible to do the bidding of an abusive cult, at the expense of honest citizens, while taking government money?
-- Dave Touretzky
Scientology = America's Al Qaida (Score:5, Insightful)
Basically, Scientology is a terrorist organization/organized crime syndicate based out of the US. In fact, you can very easily compare them to Al Qaida.
Scientology and Al Qaida share these traits
- Threats of violence (and actual cases of murders and harm to people) and abuse of host countries legal system against detractors
- Interference with and infiltration of the governments in the countries they are hosted in
- Cells operating all over the world
- Stockpiles of weapons and armed compounds
- Religious dogma used to control members and threats and violence used to stop members who want to leave from leaving
- Members are expected to be utterly loyal and are stripped of almost all money and most worldly possessions.
- Use of torture and inhumane forms of punishment
- Uses money to attack enemies (for Al Qaide, the US and her allies, for Scientology, it is anyone who detracts from them.)
- Aims their recruiters at people who are vulnerable or off balance (drug users, the poor).
Hell, they even went as far as to interfere with medical workers helping 9/11 victims last year in their rush to try to recruit people in a state of shock over what had happened.
So, when is the Bush administration going to get serious about terrorists in this country and take out America's largest and most heavily financed terrorist organization?
When is the FBI going to raid Gold Base? Why isn't the Free Winds seized at customs next time it stops by and searched. I bet they find a lot of nose powder on board for the leaders despite the "church"'s insistance that they hate drugs.
Why don't they look into Clearwater and the CO$'s interference with the government there?
Why won't they listen to our own Allies who are telling us that the CoS is a big criminal racket?
So come on Bush admin, if you are going to bomb other countries, why don't you just take care of the terrorist organizations HERE in the US first?
Re:warning: this is flamebait (Score:4, Informative)
xenu.net WANTS to be archived (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Scientology (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently the deal is that A. they feel they have the right to copyright whatever they want (as I religious institution, I have my doubts about that) but also B. their beliefs are that if you hear the "higher level" teachings before you are ready, you will become sick and die. That's why it's always important to let a low-level Scientology "preclear" know that your consciousness is made up of many spirits called "thetans" from outer space who were banished to this planet billions of years ago by the evil galactic overlord Xenu. Then ask them if they are feeling well.
THE REAL TRUTH behind why they are called clams. (Score:4, Informative)
This may cause jaw pain and extreme cases of uncontrolled
laughter.
All over the internet, the latest question due to well known
controversies originating from alt.religion.scientology seems to
be, "What is this bit about clams?" "Why do people on ARS think
this is funny?", and the ever popular, "Can I be in on the joke?"
Well, here are some answers to all of this and more.
L. Ron Hubbard late in 1952 wrote a book called "What To Audit",
later renamed "The History Of Man". It is still sold by the
Church Of Scientology and this book contains many of the basic
beliefs of the Church Of Scientology. It is considered by many
connosieurs of kook literature as a true classic of kook nonsense
and it is well worth looking for this book in used books stores
if you are indeed interested in a book that proves that there isn't
anything so stupid that people won't believe in it if it's in a book.
L. Ron Hubbard in the introduction claimed it was "a cold blooded
look at your last 60 trillion years." How could this be wrong?
He also claimed his book finally proved the theory of evolution.
(Patience, we will get to them clams soon enough.)
This following excert of History Of Man is taken from the book
Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller, a fine book for the neophyte
Scientologist watcher and clam afficionado.
Thanks also to Diane Richardson who originally typed this excerpt
up and posted it to ARS.
In a narrative style that wobbled uncertainly between
schoolboy fiction and a pseudo-scientific medical paper,
Hubbard sought to explain the the human body was occupied by
both a thetan and a 'genetic entity', or GE, a sort of low-
grade soul located more or less in the centre of the body.
To underpin his new science, Hubbard created an entire
cosmology, the essence of which was that the true self of
an individual was an immortal, omniscient and ominpotent
entity called a 'thetan'. In existence before the beginning
of time, thetans picked up and discarded millions of bodies
over trillions of years.
('The genetic entity apparently enters the protoplasm line
some two days or a week prior to conception. There is some
evidence that the GE is actually double, one entering on the
sperm side...') The GE carried on through the evolutionary
line, 'usually on the same planet', whereas the thetan only
came to earth about 35,000 years ago to supervise the
development of caveman into homo sapiens. Thus the GE was
once 'an anthropoid in the deep forests of forgetten
continents or a mollusc seeking to survive on the shore of
some lost sea'. The discovery of the GE (Hubbard hailed
every fanciful new idea as a 'discovery') 'makes it possible
at last to vindicate the theory of evolution proposed by Darwin'.
Much of the book was devoted to a re-working of evolution,
starting with 'an atom, complete with electronic rings'
after which came cosmic impact producing a 'photon
converter', the first single-cell creature, then seaweed,
jellyfish and the clam.
^^^^^^ Look! Clams!
Many engrams, for example, could be traced back to clams.
The clam's big problem was that there was a conflict
between the hinge that wanted to open and the hinge that
wanted to close. It was easy to restimulate the engram
caused by the defeat of the weaker hinge, Hubbard pronounced,
by asking a pre-clear to imagine a clam on a beach opening
and closing its shell very rapidly and at the same time
making an opening and closing motion with thumb and
forefinger. This gesture, he said, would upset large
numbers of people.
'By the way,' he warned, 'your discussion of these incidents
with the uninitiated in Scientology can cause havoc.
Should you describe the "clam" to some one [sic], you may
restimulate it in him to the extent of causing severe jaw
pain. Once such victim, after hearing about a clam death,
could not use his jaws for three days.'
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Does your jaw ache, dear reader?
Bwahahahhahahahaha!
Clams! And people pay to be taught stuff like this from silly lads
who believe stuff like this. And they claim it is science!
And a religion! Low level Scientologists are discouraged from
reading this book and are told it will all be explained later
when they are ready to understand the higher secrets of Scientology.
'Clam' is a word used on alt.religion.scientology to describe
scientologists who believe stuff like this and explains the rash of
clam jokes of alt.religion.scientology.
More secrets of Scientology:
After the clam became the 'Weeper' or the 'Boohoo', a
mollusc that rolled in the surf for half a million years,
pumping sea water out of its shell as it breathed, hence
its name. Weepers had 'trillions of misadventures',
prominent among them the anxiety caused by trying to gulp
air before being swamped by the next wave. 'The inability
of a pre-clear to cry,' Hubbard explained, 'is partly a
hang-up in the Weeper. He is about to be hit by a wave,
has his eyes full of sand or is frightened about opening
his shell because he may be hit.'
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Progressing along the genetic time-track, evolution arrived
at the sloth, which 'had bad times falling out of trees',
the ape and the famous Piltdown Man, which was the cause
of a multitude of engrams, ranging from obsessions about
biting to family problems. These could be traced back to
the fact that 'the Piltdown teeth were enormous and he was
quite careless as to whom and what he bit.' Indeed, so
careless was the Piltdown Man, Hubbard recorded, that he
was sometimes guilty of 'eating one's wife and other
somewhat illogical activities.' (Unfortunately
for Hubbard, just twelve months after The History of Man
was published, the supposed fossil remains of primitive
man found in gravel on Piltdown Common in the south of
England were exposed as a hoax. The Piltdown Man had
never existed.
The History of Man drifted into pure science fiction when
Hubbard came to the point of explaining how thetans
moved from body to body. Thetans abandoned bodies earlier
than GEs, it appeared. While the GE stayed around to see
the body through to death, thetans were obliged to report
to a between-lives 'implant station' where they were
implanted with a variety of control phases while waiting
to pick up another body, sometimes in competition with
other disembodied thetans. Hubbard revealed that most
implant stations were on Mars, although women occasionally
had to report elsewhere in the solar system and there
was a 'Martian implant station somewhere in the Pyrenees'.
Well, there you have it. How can we deny the genius of
L.Ron Hubbard? The thoughtful and useful ideas he taught
the world? He obvious deep learning and careful judgement?
The certain correctness and amazing insights of the basic beliefs
of Scientology?
More tartar sauce with your clams?
Poor Little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Poor Little Clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!