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MPAA Requests Immunity to Commit Cyber-Crimes

Posted by michael on Thu Jul 25, 2002 02:30 PM
from the how-low-can-this-nation-sink dept.
The news has been buzzing around for the last couple of days that Representative Berman, whose palm has been crossed with silver by the entertainment industry, would introduce a bill permitting copyright holders to hack or DoS people allegedly distributing their works without permission. Well, the bill has been introduced - read it and weep. Although the bill wouldn't allow copyright owners to alter or delete files on your machine, they would be allowed to DoS you in essentially any other way. Let me restate that: the MPAA and RIAA are asking that they be allowed to perform what would otherwise be federal and state criminal acts and civil torts, and you will have essentially no remedy against them under any laws of the United States.
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  • Oh I get it.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tacokill (531275) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:32PM (#3953089)
    Ok, so its open season. Fine. Game on.

  • Unconstitutional on it's face (Score:5, Informative)

    by sconeu (64226) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:33PM (#3953095) Homepage Journal
    If it applies only to big business (RIAA, MPAA, BSA), and not to joe sixpack, it's unconstitutional under the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

    Oh, and this post is Copyright (c) 2002, by me, "sconeu". I reserve the right to search any and all computers for unauthorized reproductions of this post.
  • If this passes... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tebriel (192168) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:33PM (#3953102)
    They've just declared war, and they themselves will be the first casualties.

    I wish I could feel sorry for them.
    • Re:If this passes... by jw32767 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:52PM
    • Re:If this passes... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Liora (565268) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:55PM (#3953367) Journal

      I want to know who they're going to get to do the hacking. Those programmers will be ostracized in the online communities for the rest of their lives... as it should be. Hacking into people's boxes legit-like based upon some stupid 'right to hack' law, for moulah... Much like NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) we should form a coalition against programmers with no self-respect: NOM/. (Not on my /.).

      [ Parent ]
    • BS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Bastian (66383) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:19PM (#3953605)
      Take a step outside the Geek Tower. I've tried explaining issues like this to my friends, and most of them don't understand computers or the nuances of the computing world nearly well enough to fully comprehend issues like this.

      But that doesn't really matter, because the few people who seem to really take notice and care have historically shown that they aren't going to do shit about it, either. Remember when the DVD CCA had a kid arrested for helping to create DeCSS? There was indignation and outcry for all of a month, maybe, and then everyone put their DeCSS source code and anti-DVD CCA t-shirts back in their closets and bought themselves a brand spankin' new DVD player and a stack of movies.

      They haven't declared war at all. They've got us eating out of their hands because when it came down to it, very few people would be willing to give up their Big Name movies and music in order to fight back.
      [ Parent ]
      • Untrue (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Rayonic (462789) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:11PM (#3954028) Homepage Journal
        > because the few people who seem to really take notice and care have historically shown that they aren't going to do shit about it

        Not true this time, because:

        a) "Fighting back" this time doesn't involve lengthy and corrupt political processes.

        b) We can do it while sitting on our fat (proverbial) asses.

        I advise everyone here to start creating and publishing your own content right now, so you have a convenient excuse to legally hack and DoS wherever you please. Come on, even if you don't have a creative bone in your body, think about it this way: Neither does the RIAA/MPAA.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:BS by RedWizzard (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:30PM
        • Wrong by Bastian (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:54PM
          • Re:Wrong by RedWizzard (Score:3) Thursday July 25 2002, @09:17PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:BS by virtue1 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:52PM
      • Re:BS by hage (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:07PM
        • Re:BS by Glytch (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:26PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Active countermeasures (Score:5, Insightful)

      by coyote-san (38515) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:35PM (#3953734)
      This is not hyperbole.

      No reputable system administrator will use "active countermeasures" today (with a few extraordinary-case exceptions) because they understand that the community as a whole is better served by enforcing the rule of law on the people who attempt to destroy our systems. It can be frustrating to see the legal process grind slowly, but it's better than a world of vigilantes that burn down anyone they think did them wrong.

      But if the courts are removed from us, what are we supposed to do? Sit by and watch our own businesses fail because the MPAA *thinks* that we have an infringing file and its effective immunity means that they have absolutely no motivation in behaving even remotely reasonably?

      Nope, the true effect of this law is to effectively require active countermeasures. You attempt to take down my site, and I'll hit you with everything I have. It may not be legal, but under this law there is effectively *no* legal response available, and at least this way I have a chance of surviving for another day.

      Finally, even if you're willing to play "mother may I" with the AG, how could you ever *prove* that you lost sales because your systems were down, data inaccessible, etc.?

      P.S. ,I'm not just worried about the MPAA and RIAA. Imagine the Church of $cientology armed with this to go after its critics/former members.
      [ Parent ]
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by Typingsux (65623) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:33PM (#3953105)
    Click me [photoisland.com]

  • Holy Cow. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Icepick_ (25751) <icepickNO@SPAMnetfamine..com> on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:33PM (#3953107) Homepage
    If you've been living under a rock, now is the time to realize how deep it really is in Washington now.

    This is complete and utter bullshit. My money stays home if this passes. Anyone read any good books lately?
    • Re:Holy Cow. by SpotBug (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:10PM
      • Re:Holy Cow. by Kanon (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:43PM
      • Re:Holy Cow. by ShavenYak (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @10:21AM
    • Hell yes! by Groucho (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:10PM
    • Re:Holy Cow. by jazman_777 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:17PM
      • Re:Holy Cow. by inch (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:31PM
    • Re:Holy Cow. by shren (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:38PM
      • Re:Holy Cow. by jkusters (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:21PM
    • Lots.. by deacon (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:40PM
    • Boycot for me by DaveWhite99 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:58PM
      • Re:Boycot for me by mother_superius (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:12PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Holy Cow. by SoSueMe (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:25PM
      • Re:Holy Cow. by zerocool^ (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:37PM
    • Re:Holy Cow. by Tyrone Slothrop (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:38PM
    • To get you going on incompetence.... by m94mni (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:08PM
    • Re:Holy Cow. by wabb1t (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:41PM
    • 1984 by shrikel (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:17PM
      • Re:1984 by Glytch (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:46PM
    • Re:Holy Cow. by Windcatcher (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @08:49AM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • What this might mean..... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Captain Pedantic (531610) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM (#3953109) Homepage
    The Register is actually looking forward [theregister.co.uk] to this becoming law!
  • What crap by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM
    • Re:What crap by Jobarr (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:36PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • What about... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM
  • Odd.. by snevine (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM
  • and then ... by tandr (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM
  • Not just any crime... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by aronc (258501) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM (#3953118)
    As of a few days ago if citizen do these same things they can be considered terrorists and subject to a maximum sentance of life in prison. Now who again is being helped by our lawmakers now?
    • Re:Not just any crime... by anthony_dipierro (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:29PM
    • Re:Not just any crime... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AntiNorm (155641) on Thursday July 25 2002, @07:04PM (#3955240)
      As of a few days ago if citizen do these same things they can be considered terrorists and subject to a maximum sentance of life in prison.

      "As of a few days ago"? The Patriot Act is still in full effect, is it not? What this all means is that if they get their way (when do they not?), corporations can hack/DoS you all they want, but if you return fire in any way, you're a fucking TERRORIST.

      IMHO, anybody who would even consider passing or proposing anything like this is far more of a terrorist than any John Q. Mp3trader ever could be. It pisses me off to no end that corporations could even think of doing crap like this, and that our government would let it happen. Oh, corporate interests can do this to anybody they don't like, but private citizens are treated as terrorist scum if they even think about doing it. The Constitution is being defecated upon in the name of corporate interests and big money.

      Double standards annoy me as is. But to make a distinction between being perfectly legal and being an Osama Bin Laden in training just because of how much money you have is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard.
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Immoral acts by SpatchMonkey (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:35PM
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:35PM (#3953130)
    I wonder at what point the revolt will happen. Something tells me it will be when it's far too late, and anybody trying to be proactive about it will be called a terrorist or something.

    When will the American people wake up? It's so blatantly obvious to the rest of the world that your corporations are out of control. When are you going to finally realize it's time to put a leash on them?
  • Bad move! by dacarr (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:35PM
  • new p2p scheme (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Afrosheen (42464) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:35PM (#3953134)
    Where will all of this end? Does the MPAA/RIAA actually need the right to attack individuals over the internet for having an mp3 of Stairway to Heaven on their pc? Is there anything dsl/cable/whatever providers can do to protect their customers from this?

    More questions and a film at 11.
    • Re:new p2p scheme (Score:5, Interesting)

      by macdaddy (38372) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:11PM (#3953522) Homepage Journal
      Sure there is. If it passes I'll be blacklisting every RIAA and MPAA netblock I can find. I'd also nominat the for an RBL listing due to the DoSing attempts from their netspace and their disregard for abuse@ mailings. They can't DoS my customers if they can't get past my border router. If they still flood me as a business, I'll sue for damages. :-)
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:new p2p scheme by Soul-Burn666 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:12PM
    • Re:new p2p scheme by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:17PM
    • Re:new p2p scheme by why-is-it (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:22PM
    • GNUnet by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:23PM
    • Re:new p2p scheme by JWW (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:23PM
    • Re:new p2p scheme by okmijnuhb (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:51PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Of course this will be fought by Jucius Maximus (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:36PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Privacy laws.... by zoobaby (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:38PM
  • response of network operators by mdouglas (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:38PM
  • Good bye internet... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by eyepeepackets (33477) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:38PM (#3953156) Homepage
    ...hello again Fidonet, old friend. How you be? Here, let me help you with that (whatever.)

    This had better not pass into law because it's an open invitation to civil war on the net. I can't believe such stupidity makes it this far in Congress, no, wait, yes I can believe it in the context of UCITA, DRM, etc., etc., seemingly ad infinitum.

    • Re:Good bye internet... by dacarr (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:39PM
    • Re:Good bye internet... by DataPath (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:53PM
    • Re:Good bye internet... by BrookHarty (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:16PM
      • Re:Good bye internet... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by eyepeepackets (33477) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:31PM (#3954199) Homepage
        You ever see the movie "Brazil?" Not the horrible horked version, but the director's cut (Terry Gilliam.) If not, you're really missing something great. Anyway, at the beginning of the film there's a short scene where a national government official is being interviewed on television and the subject is his government's war on terrorism. Here's the dialog from a draft script, the movie has very minor differences:

        INTERVIEWER: Deputy minister, what do you believe is behind this recent increase in terrorist bombings?
        HELPMANN: Bad sportsmanship. A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotten certain good old fashioned virtues. They just can't stand seeing the other fellow win. If these people would just play the game, instead of standing on the touch line heckling -
        INTERVIEWER: In fact, killing people -
        HELPMANN: - In fact, killing people - they'd get a lot more out of life.
        INTERVIEWER: Mr. Helpmann, what would you say to those critics who maintain that the Ministry Of Information has become too large and unwieldy ...?
        HELPMANN: David ... in a free society information is the name of the game. You can't win the game if you're a man short.
        INTERVIEWER: And the cost of it all, Deputy Minister? Seven percent of the gross national product ...
        HELPMANN: I understand this concern on behalf of the tax-payers. People want value for money and a cost-effective service.
        INTERVIEWER: Do you think that the government is winning the battle against terrorists?
        HELPMANN: Oh yes. Our morale is much higher than theirs, we're fielding all their strokes, running a lot of them out, and pretty consistently knocking them for six. I'd say they're nearly out of the game.
        INTERVIEWER: But the bombing campaign is now in its thirteenth year ...
        HELPMANN: Beginner's luck.
        INTERVIEWER: Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.
        HELPMANN: Thank you, David ... and a very merry Christmas to you all.

        [ Parent ]
  • Buying politicians. by perlyking (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:38PM
  • Its like government enforced vigilantism by CableModemSniper (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:38PM
  • Courtroom scene: by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:38PM
  • evil rears it ugly head ... again by jimmythegoat (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:39PM
  • Hello, ISP? by Salden (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:39PM
  • In other news (Score:5, Informative)

    by BagOBones (574735) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:39PM (#3953168)
    The Canadian Private Copying Collective wants more of your money.

    On top of raising existing levys, they want to tax any media that can store copyrighted material. This includes Hard drives and Flash media. While the MPAA is crashing your computer in the US the CPCC is robing you blind every time you buy recordable media.. And how much are the artists getting??? According to reports, after 2 years of the levy being collected NOTHING has been paied to ANY artist.. Theroy has it they are spending all the money lobying for higher levys.

    http://www.sycorp.com/levy/index.htm
  • The Irony by ScooterB (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:39PM
  • One set of laws for by fiori (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:40PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Not a chance in Hell, Jack and Hilary by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:40PM
  • They should ask themselves... by s4f (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:40PM
  • What happen for foreign computer ? by aepervius (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:40PM
  • ISP Complicity? by sllort (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:40PM
  • How low? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bonker (243350) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:41PM (#3953190)
    MPAA - 'Can we have immunity from laws designed to protect the computer infrastructure and commit damaging acts against networks and computers that don't belong to us?' - Pending

    John Ashcroft and Federal LEO's - 'Can we have immunity from the fourth ammendment and commit invasion of privacy against americans?' - Denied up until 9-11, then granted, despite the fact that they already had information about the WTC attacks. Permanent acception is pending the Patriot act's expiration date.

    George Bush and Oil Industry CEOs - 'Can we have immunity from laws protecting the environment and virgin wilderness in order to increase our profits and control of the energy industry by drilling in Alaskan wilderness and completely ignoring global warming and any other environmental concerns that are too expensive for us to worry about?' - Pending.

    What's next?

    Preists - 'Can we have immunity from laws protecting children from molestation and rape so we can get our jollies with 9 year olds?'

    Corporate Executives - 'Can we have immunity from laws protecting our investors and the general public so that we can pad our pocketbooks and live lives of luxury?'

    Police - 'Can we have immunity from laws protecting citezens from police brutality so that we can beat, maim or kill with impunity?'

    The Rich - 'Can we have immunity from laws protecting people from slavery and oppression so that we can further entrench our selves in oligarchy and profit from the abuse of our fellow humans'?

    • Re:How low? by endoboy (Score:3) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:11PM
      • Re:How low? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by gilroy (155262) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:29PM (#3954184) Homepage Journal
        Blockquoth the poster:
        P2P networks - "Can we have immunity to steal intellectual property, as long as we call it "sharing""?
        Leaving aside the fact that copyright infringement != stealing, let's see. Do we let convenience store clerks take guns into the apartments of people they think might rob the Kwiki-Mart? Do car owners get to blow up suspected car thieves? Does the local mall have the right to cut off your hand because, hey, that Gap shirt might have been stolen?
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:How low? by mpe (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:50PM
      • Re:How low? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Wah (30840) on Thursday July 25 2002, @05:11PM (#3954548) Homepage Journal
        Can we have world wide network to promote our music (that we created) without having to pay a tax to the RIAA?
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:How low? by Snaller (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:28PM
      • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:How low? by inKubus (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:51PM
      • Re:How low? by loraksus (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:59PM
    • Re:How low? by Zathrus (Score:3) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:56PM
      • Re:How low? by machinegestalt (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:09PM
        • Re:How low? by Zathrus (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @08:18AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:How low? by layingMantis (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:19PM
        • Re:How low? by Zathrus (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @08:27AM
      • Re:How low? by Pocharngo (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @08:27AM
    • Re:How low? by jafac (Score:3) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:05PM
      • Re:How low? by Bonker (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:16PM
      • Re:How low? by Snover (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @11:27PM
    • Re:How low? by brittm (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:38PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • The Repo precedent by Gorimek (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:41PM
  • Martial Law by Milo Fungus (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:41PM
  • Desparate Times... by Escape Tangent (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:41PM
  • Loophole (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nomad7674 (453223) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:41PM (#3953198) Homepage Journal
    One of the "exceptions" listed to the immunity (i.e. if this condition is tripped, then they ARE liable) is:

    (C) causes economic loss of more than $50 per impairment to the property of the affected file trader, other than economic loss involving computer files or data made available through a publicly accessible peer-to-peer file trading network that contains works which the owner has exclusive rights granted under section 106;

    So if you managed to place the files in question on a server which also had some commercial purpose (say, hosting images for an eBay auction) might this trip the $50 limit and allow prosecution or civil action? I am only the son of a lawyer and not one myself, but this seems like a low threshhold for such a bill

    • Re:Loophole by kabir (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:45PM
    • Vigilante Justice by Ioldanach (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:59PM
    • Re:Loophole by Dymus (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:00PM
      • Re:Loophole by BattyMan (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:59PM
    • Re:Loophole by lynx_user_abroad (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:52PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • pronouns by bensej (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:42PM
    • Re:pronouns by rol7805 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:33PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Lets see how this would work (Score:5, Interesting)

    The MPAA would hire a couple of "consulting" companies to carry out these acts.

    These consulting firms would attack and disable some script kiddies computer who is serving MP3s.

    So, what does the script kiddie do? He and his bunch of script kiddies go and shut down the offending consulting firms internet connection(s) with a DoS that's about 100 times more massive (because they can use everyone elses poorly protected servers to do it). And that's just if they pick on a teenager in the US.

    Say they try and shut down some actual knowledgable hacker in, say, Russia. Wait a second... why are the bank account numbers, credit card numbers, home address and telephone for the head of the MPAA up on MPAA.com? Weird.

    My question is, how does this web site [mpaa.org] even stay up?

    I'm sure the script kiddies internet provider will just be pleased as punch that the MPAA just hacked one of it's customers and possibly used a DoS attack to do it (there by degrading the quality of service for all their clients)

    Sounds great to me. It'll work like a charm this new law (if passed).

    And why does the MPAA sound like a police orginization to me?
    From their website:
    To battle the problem, in 2000, the MPA launched over 60,000 investigations into suspected pirate activities, and more than 18,000 raids against pirate operations in coordination with local authorities around the world.

    The MPAA/MPA directs its worldwide anti-piracy activities from headquarters in Encino, California. Regional offices are also located in Brussels (Europe, Middle and Africa), Mexico (Latin America) Canada and Hong Kong (Asia/Pacific).


    Uhmm... that scares me
  • poll? by _ph1ux_ (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:42PM
    • Re:poll? by _ph1ux_ (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • by lunenburg (37393) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:42PM (#3953214) Homepage
    I sent off this Letter to the Editor to newspapers in Coble's 6th District in North Carolina (Greensboro, High Point, Burlington, Asheboro, Lexington) this morning, before the bill was officially introduced. Hopefully it'll get published in at least one of the papers:

    ######
    To The Editor,

    For years, Congress and law enforcement has been telling us about the dangers posed by computer hackers. They have warned computer users about how you should be on guard for the damage that hackers can do to your computer systems.

    However, Rep. Howard Coble is preparing to submit a bill in Congress that would grant almost complete immunity to large music and movie companies to hack into your computers, if they have the suspicion that you might be sharing copyrighted files. No proof or involvement by law enforcement will be needed. And what's more, if they damage your computers in this vigilante action, you'll need to prove real damages of over $250 and get the permission of the US Attorney General to file suit against them.

    What Rep. Coble is saying is that computer hacking is bad, unless you're a rich corporation with lots of money to provide in campaign donations. The hypocracy of such a bill is stunning. The voters of Congressional District 6 need to decide whether Rep. Coble is looking out for their interests, or Big Hollywood's.
  • By "P2P network" they mean "The Internet". by EvilMagnus (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:42PM
  • It WILL be an act of war. Arm yourselves, people. PGP your files and offload to a disconnected machine. And get a firewall. And Nmap. If they do this, we can fight right back and when they do, the government will finally see the error of this bill.
  • sold to the highest bidder for $187k by dslbrian (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:42PM
  • An interesting question... by taernim (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:43PM
  • tcp/ip by cisco_rob (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:43PM
    • Re:tcp/ip by Valiss (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:16PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Don't worry too much (yet) (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Christianfreak (100697) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:44PM (#3953233) Homepage Journal
    We should still be writing our representatives but at the same time I don't really think this bill stands much of a chance. Congress usually understands when they are making something that is on the books illegal into something legal for elite groups. They know that if they pass the bill and it gets some publicity that there will be huge public outcry, probably enough to keep at least some of them from being re-elected.

    Even if it passes its obviously unconstitutional and any judge in his right mind will strike it down.

    (if it passes the house and goes to the Senate then I'll worry)
  • The problem... by Restil (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:44PM
  • "(B) causes economic loss to any person other than by blunte (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:44PM
  • Safe harbor if no other alternative? by glsunder (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:44PM
  • Secure p2p? by Valiss (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:45PM
  • It's a wonderful idea! by Eric Damron (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:45PM
  • Here's the loophole by yerricde (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:45PM
  • Looking at the brighter side... by prakashj79 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:45PM
  • Windows XP already has a similar scheme... by Temsi (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:46PM
  • Legal Verbage by Ryan_Terry (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:46PM
  • Legality Schmegality by cisco_rob (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:46PM
  • So how would you... by newestbob (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:46PM
  • grandma too... by fiftyLou (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:46PM
  • It doesn't give blanket protection (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bryan Ischo (893) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:47PM (#3953271) Homepage
    Did the person who wrote the Slashdot editorialization for this story even read the bill?

    The very first page says:

    "Notwithstanding any State or Federal statute or other law ..."

    Which indicates to me that you WOULD have "remedy against them" under whatever laws of the United States existed before this bill.

    Furthermore, the bill makes it very clear that the copyright holder can only mess with your computer's ability to transfer copyrighted material, not anything else, and only if it does not adversely impact your computer with regards to anything other than the copyrighted material which is being illegally transferred.

    And, far from being "allowed to DoS you in essentially any other way", they could only block, divert, or otherwise impair the UNAUTHORIZED transfer of copyrighted material. Whatever that other way of DoSing you is that you are worried about, it could only be used so long as it interferes only with the unauthorized transfer of copyrighted material. And only if it only causes economic loss to you of less than $50 per impairment to the property of the affected copyright holder, and only if it does not economically or materially impact anyone else.

    I would say that this bill simply tries to put forth the notion that they copyright holders ought to be allowed to block illegal transfer of their copyrighted works, within very tight boundaries of conduct which ensures that they do not inadvertently cause any harm to any one else, or even to the illegal transferrer except for impairing their ability to make illegal transfers.

    I am not saying that I agree or disagree with this bill, but the editorializer has clearly overstated the scope and effect of this bill. This seems to be a common tactic of those who rabidly defend an anti-copyright position with regards to modern file sharing.
  • Corporate Republic by MarvinMouse (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:47PM
    • Re:Corporate Republic (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jafac (1449) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:35PM (#3954242) Homepage
      Eventually, they might even be able to loop around taxes.

      Um, hello? They already do. Microsoft has not paid Federal income tax for 5 years. And Washington State does not have State tax. Therefore, Microsoft pays NO FUCKING TAXES.

      Think of how many government resources ($) have been funnelled TO Microsoft:
      Copyright enforcement
      Spending time listenting to the BSA
      Playing games with standards committies
      Antitrust lawsuits and consent decrees that went ignored (ahem 1995).
      SEC and FTC investigations of fraud and insider trading (all dropped).
      Money spent on Microsoft product for government use because they're basically offered no alternative by the HOLY HOLY HOLY market.
      DOD to defend the US from attack from foreign countries who would change the economic structure of the nation if they took over, such that Microsoft and other rich corporations would suffer - the average Joe probably would not notice in most cases. Might even benefit.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Corporate Republic by 4ntifa (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @03:47AM
  • out of country by bigpat (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:47PM
  • Mental Note by f0rtytw0 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:47PM
  • Circumvention by BigBir3d (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:47PM
  • RIAA RIAA RIAA!! What about me? by rmadmin (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • Mistake by kmahan (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • great by GoatPigSheep (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • Desperation? by teetam (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • Wait a minute ... by Bob(TM) (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • The reality of what will happen... by Psx29 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • Move To China by txtger (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:48PM
  • Cause of action for wrongful impairment by naoursla (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:49PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • This would be great! by digerata (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:49PM
  • Don't tread on me by photon317 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:49PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Call/Email your Representatives and Senators by Reverend Beaker (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:50PM
  • Write your Representative (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bwt (68845) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:50PM (#3953322) Homepage
    Write your representative online here [house.gov]

    Unfortunately for me, my rep is Lamar Smith (R-TX) who is one of the bill's sponsors.

    I wrote him yesterday (before I knew he was a sponsor) and made several objectsions to the bill:
    1) It's vigilante justice. False positives -- the MPAA and RIAA have a strong market pressure to ignore false positives, because alternative methods of distribution challenge their business model
    2) The "digital piracy" problem is not a problem
    3) The MPAA and RIAA have subverted the democratic process and the will of the people regarding copyright law
    4) Trying to stop file-trading is futile. Free Speech and "Total Control" Copyright are fundamentally incompatible. The People would rather have Free Speech than the MPAA and RIAA.

    I wrote him today and told him I would vote against him.
  • Hey that's cool by Freeminder (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:50PM
  • bill number? by PapaZit (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:51PM
  • Misleading article and sensationalist posts again by Anonymous Brave Guy (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:51PM
  • A telnet server on every port by stinky wizzleteats (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:51PM
  • Revenge? Yeah, right. by Dthoma (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:51PM
  • Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by liquidsin (398151) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:51PM (#3953337) Homepage
    First, copyright holders were allowed to take you to civil court for theft of copyrighted material, which was all well and good. Then, the big guys realized that civil proceedings cost them money, so they paid for a law (DMCA) that would make copyright violations a criminal offense so the government would foot the bill. And now that they aren't getting the results they wanted from the government they want to legalize vigilante justice? I guess buying your politicians in bulk really pays off...
  • Assumed Innocent by Syn Ack (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:52PM
  • This is going to accomplish one thing only by JudgeFurious (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:52PM
  • Write your representative. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kabir (35200) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:52PM (#3953346) Homepage
    First go here [house.gov] to figure out who your rep is, then write them an actual, physical, pen and paper letter detailing your concerns over this issue and asking them to vote/committe it into oblivion.

    Sure you could use the link above to write in electronically, and that's fine, but you should more or less expect that if you don't write a physical letter then you'll be ignored. It's not always competely true, but it's true enough. If you don't write your rep and this thing passes then you've pretty much forfieted your bitching rights.

  • Weak standard, better workaround by The Man (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:53PM
  • by Slipped_Disk (532132) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:53PM (#3953351) Homepage Journal
    May I suggest that while we are discussing this abomination of a bill here on slashdot we also take the time to open our word processors and write letters to our representatives?

    Remember that technically they are supposed to represent US, not the person/corporation with the biggest checkbook.

    It may also do well to write your senators -- A similar bill will likely start up there eventualy, or if this mess passes the house it will wind up in the senate eventually.
    Find your Representative [house.gov] and your Senators [senate.gov] and make your opinion known.

    (BTW - remember that paper letters are far more difficult to ignore than outraged emails. Especially en masse.)

  • What happens when they're wrong? by TheLOTR (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:53PM
  • Here's an option by rpi1995 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:54PM
  • The content cartel has the nerve to do this? by sjgman9 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:54PM
  • No problem by Pinball Wizard (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:55PM
  • by ukyoCE (106879) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:56PM (#3953374) Journal
    Before you can be punished for a crime, isn't due process required? And even if you are found to be committing a crime, since when were victims allowed to decide and administer punishment? This is seriously messed up stuff going on here, for this sort of thing even to be suggested by one of our representatives -- let alone if it actually passes!
  • What about the bandwidth loss to bystanders? by SimplyCosmic (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:56PM
  • It's our own damn fault by AnalogDiehard (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:56PM
  • Vigilanteism by Quintin Stone (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:56PM
  • Think on this. by Martigan80 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:57PM
  • Reply to the Bill by dougermouse (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:57PM
  • so... by Jinjuro (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:57PM
  • Shooting the Talent again, and their own foot., by 3seas (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:58PM
  • I think civil disobedience is in order by cecil36 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:58PM
  • Don't do anything illegal, just be *very* legal by anonymous cupboard (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:58PM
  • What about collateral damage? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Geckoman (44653) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:59PM (#3953410)
    Suppose I'm on a cable modem, and although I'd never do anything illegal or immoral with my connection, my neighbor down the street has multiple Napster clones running 24/7.

    If the MPAA or RIAA decides they want to DDoS him for sharing their material, it's darn sure going to impact my EverQuest and Warcraft III connections (as well as whatever more "legitimate" uses I may be putting my bandwidth to).

    Will non-infringers who suffer such collateral damage have any recourse against the companies or trade groups who are "protecting their rights"?

    Hmm...no cancelled checks in my account made out to any Congressmen, so I somehow doubt it.

  • BS or maybe scare tactic by TheLastUser (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:00PM
  • My own Plan by antitribue (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:00PM
  • Write your representative by medeii (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:00PM
  • Read it all by goofy183 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:01PM
  • Split and merge by Space cowboy (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:02PM
  • P2P Preservation Procedures by SanLouBlues (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:03PM
  • Is this not a CONFLICT of interest? by ZaneMcAuley (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:03PM
  • What about "collateral damage"? by geekee (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:03PM
  • What We Can Do by yoric (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:04PM
  • Hotmail by Cyclone66 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:04PM
  • What ever Happened to Porn? by antitribue (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:04PM
  • Police Power by EvilBudMan (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:05PM
  • Solution by LittleGuy (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:06PM
  • My problem with it... by PovRayMan (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:06PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • if yer american, contact your congressman... by badzencreative (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:07PM
  • This is completely unworkable (IANAL) by SuperMallen (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:07PM
  • Basically... by exley (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:08PM
  • Can somebody please explain to me... by enkidu55 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:08PM
  • And if they DDOS someone who is innocent? by dammy (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:09PM
  • Being Trolled by the MPAA by Inexile2002 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:09PM
  • Why can't geeks buy their own congresspeople? by idiot900 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:10PM
  • Take a stand. by Renraku (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:10PM
  • *You* are likely a copyright holder by droleary (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:10PM
  • Guerilla warfare/holy wars by FreakerSFX (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:11PM
  • Acts of terrorism by dfn5 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:11PM
  • path of action by morgajel (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:12PM
  • This is the end of windows for me by N3WBI3 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:12PM
  • Spam by TamMan2000 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:12PM
  • Just Wait by protool1 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:13PM
  • Like something out of a Gibson or Stephenson novel by Ride-My-Rocket (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:14PM
  • What we need is a list of Committee members by pcause (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:14PM
  • I guess it's payback time. by JoeCotellese (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:15PM
  • R.I.P. IRC by anthony_dipierro (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:15PM
  • Slashdot exploit? by RyanFenton (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:15PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Why do they need this law? by BoVLB (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:16PM
  • What else can the MPAA do? by t0qer (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:16PM
  • What about my ISP? by cardshark2001 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:16PM
  • Loopholes by nuggz (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:16PM
  • Questions I'd like to raise by chrisgeleven (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:17PM
  • So the RIAA and MPAA Want to Be Terrorists? by cc_pirate (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:18PM
  • They don't have to delete to get their way by dutchdabomb (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:18PM
  • Anyone know which committee by SataiCam (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:18PM
  • bill number? by PCGod (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:19PM
  • MPAA Immunity by inode_buddha (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:19PM
  • It's ok if... by Warlock7 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:22PM
  • I Wish I could Do Illegal Things Too... by aerojad (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:24PM
  • Reality check by return 42 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:24PM
  • Who else can see the truth here? by Aelist (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:24PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Playing into their hands (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kefaa (76147) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:25PM (#3953646)
    Everytime this appears we get a bunch of "we'll show them posters" threatening all kinds of interesting punishments. Forget it.

    If/When the law passes each attempt to hack into their computers for any reason will be met with the recently passes "capital crime" of hacking punishment.

    You are an individual. They are a corporation.
    You are a terrorist. They are protecting the rights of American copyright holders.
    You will get 5 - 25 years. They will get new releases on how good a job they are doing stopping these kids from stealing their products.
    They donate large sums of money to congress. You are listed as a non-voting demographic. [Better than opposition party or extremist, you are a non-entity.]

    I will be surprised if this makes the nightly news anywhere. They want this to be a non-story and will pay plenty to keep it that way. Any story that does arise will be spinning the "protecting America against copyright theft."

    If you really want to do something, take five minutes, right now and FAX your representatives [You could try email. Are they any better at reading them today than last year?].

    Be polite, be firm and be specific. DMCA got passed because many people expected someone else(our representatives) to see the lunacy in the approach. This just proves we can never underestimate the ability of smart people to do dumb things with the right incentive.

    Here are the contacts:
    Senate Locator [senate.gov]
    House of Representative Locator [house.gov]

    Do it now
  • Trusted Peer, Encrypted P2P Networks (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bwt (68845) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:26PM (#3953656) Homepage

    Assume that the MPAA and RIAA will be able to block packets from any P2P network that they identify as containing their works. I'm not sure how they'll do it, but it probably involves paying off the backbone owners and/or ISPs.

    It seems to me that the obvious counter-measure is to use encryption and "trusted peer" techniques to preclude their ability to join the P2P network and/or identify who is trading what.
  • Seems to be pretty powerless ... by too_bad (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:27PM
  • Legal way to destroy Microsoft? by Viewsonic (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:28PM
  • US Elections coming up soon by Herger (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:28PM
  • A serious (yet angry) question - by Hrothgar The Great (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:29PM
  • a copyright owner's rights by jijnasu (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:30PM
  • Out of country servers? by too_bad (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:30PM
  • The terrorists have won by TechNit (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:31PM
  • They Will Delete and Alter Your Files by gspeare (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:31PM
  • RIAA, MPAA would be committing an Act of War! by TheUndertaker (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:31PM
  • This will increase network security. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lethyos (408045) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:31PM (#3953701) Journal
    It's simple. Pirates are very determined to continue piracy. If the MPAA, RIAA, or whoever start hacking, three things will happen.

    1. The outcome will be true to the traditional form of computer security: the more people you have banging on something, the better it'll get in the long run. People who design and develop the P2P networks and the systems they run on will have intense motivation to make those systems more secure against crackers. More bugs will be found and squashed since the attackers in this case are not afraid of legal ramifications.

    2. Pirates'll change their software. Most pirates are probably on fairly insecure systems [microsoft.com] at the moment. When they find themselves being shut down in this manner, they'll move to more secure [openbsd.org] platforms and services.

    3. Whoever these entities are will eventually blunder such that they will destroy both their credibility and make them look like jackasses. In time, they are going to hire people who will abuse this to the maximum possible extent. There's also the extreme likelihood that some attacks will be waged on critical systems for businesses or whoever (someone sets of a warez depot on their company's xyz server).

    These people who want this nonsense fail to realize exactly how pointless all this is. They don't understand that they are dealing with an animal that heals faster than it can be injured. When they took out Napster, a dozen file sharing services popped up to take its place. Likewise today, when they start cracking to take down sharing networks and systems, the users will only build them up stronger. Not to mention that no matter at what scale they launch these attacks, the MPAA, RIAA, or whoever could never have enough attackers to even make a dent on the whole system. There's at least an order of magnitude more pirates than there are people stopping them. Again, they will make themselves look like jackasses.

    Damn fools. Greed makes them both blind and stupid. They could spend some time coming up with a fair business model that could survive out there today without a lot of extra bullshit (Palladium, DRM, etc). That would require a lot less time and money.
  • USA a rogue state? by heikkile (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:31PM
  • Due process anyone???? by chuckw (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:33PM
  • ah by Nept (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:34PM
  • Something like this has already happened, by mhoover (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:35PM
  • Mafia activity is to become legal? by Lethyos (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:36PM
  • The crux of the bill is in subsection (a) which states that they won't be liable for any ciminal or civil action which results from impairing the distribution of copyright works. However, there are exceptions to that, which I find quite large. If I'm reading this correctly, then they cannot claim their actions fall under this bill if it:
    • (B) causes economic loss to any person other than affected file traders; or
    • (C) causes economic loss of more than $50.00 per impairment to the property of the affected file trader, other than economic loss involving computer files or data made available through a publicly accessible peer-to-peer file trading network that contain works in which the owner has an exclusive right granted under section 106;
    This means that if they dos someone on my local cable segment then I can sue them if it impacts my bandwidth, Comcast can sue if it deprives their customers of service and/or uses their resources, and all the backbones and other service providers whose bandwidth is eaten up can call for reimbursement.

    The two downsides of this is that the bill is not limited to dos. It is pretty wide open in that they can do pretty much anything technologically which has the effect of "disabling, interfering with, blocking, diverting, or otherwise impairing the unauthorized distribution, display, performance, or reproduction" of their material. Which includes crashing or otherwise rendering inoperable network communications on the computer.

    Not only that, but anyone who tries to face up to them needs very deep pockets to fight them - even if they caused more than $50 of damage they'll still have to prove it in court.

    In other words, "Shoot now, ask questions later" and "You are guilty until proven innocent" should be stamped across this bill.

    Translation: Fight the bill here and now. It'll be ten times more difficult and costly to remove it from law than it is to keep it from being placed there in the first place.

    -Adam
  • Stickers by dannyweb (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:37PM
  • Massive Civil Disobedience (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bwt (68845) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:37PM (#3953757) Homepage

    Folks, it is clear to me that the legislative process is so corrupted by the Copyright special interests that the laws that it produces are not legitimate representations of the will of the people.

    I believe that the only moral response in such a case is to violate those laws. Screw the MPAA. Screw the RIAA. Screw Congress. It is time for freedom loving people to declare openly that they will not recognize copyrights held by the MPAA and RIAA.
    • Re:Massive Civil Disobedience (Score:4, Insightful)

      by why-is-it (318134) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:23PM (#3954132) Homepage Journal
      I believe that the only moral response in such a case is to violate those laws. Screw the MPAA. Screw the RIAA. Screw Congress. It is time for freedom loving people to declare openly that they will not recognize copyrights held by the MPAA and RIAA.

      Well, that is step one. Step two in a civil disobedience campaign would be to openly and publicly violate their copyright and fully accept the consequences of that act. You see, the point of civil disobedience is that you want to get arrested and charged under the unjust law, and you want to received the punishment mandated by that unjust law in the hopes of making the public at large aware of just how bad the law is.

      Are you still down with that?
      [ Parent ]
    • Screw the copyrights by rtscts (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:13PM
  • Open the floodgates, the ironies are delicious by dcgaber (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:38PM
  • The top industries supporting Howard L. Berman [opensecrets.org] are:
    1 TV/Movies/Music $186,891
    2 Lawyers/Law Firms $97,100

    The top industries supporting Howard Coble [opensecrets.org] are:
    1 Lawyers/Law Firms $35,515
    2 TV/Movies/Music $33,483

    There is nothing these two "gentlemen" would not to to keep sucking at the media industry tit. Even to the degree of drafting such nonsensical law that clearly violates the "equal treament" under privilege or immunity of the 14th Amendment [cornell.edu] by immunizing corporations against felonious activities conducted by them against citizens without considering due process.
  • Wow, HTTP just became a file trading network! by __dtrance (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:41PM
  • Coming to some overzealous conclusions... by philStyle (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:41PM
  • Fire a warning shot across their nose... by NanoGator (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:42PM
  • Somewhere in the great beyond by mstyne (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:42PM
  • A thought (not a suggestion :) by kindbud (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:42PM
  • Who Are The Lapdogs? by jazman_777 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:43PM
  • by shren (134692) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:43PM (#3953818) Homepage Journal

    Here's your chance to legally hack Microsoft and see if they're using your GPLed code.

    Here's what I want to see happen:

    1. Hackers hack Microsoft.
    2. Hackers find GPL code in most versions of Windows.
    3. In a death-defying hacker assault, hackers wipe every single line of code covered by the GPL license off the face of the planet.
    4. Microsoft sues hackers.
    5. Hackers argue that since the code has GPLed code, it's licensed under the GPL. Since there have been binaries distributed, Microsoft is legally obligated to distribute the source. Thus, since the source is legally required to be freely available, it has no resale value, is thus worth zero, and thus the hackers are protected because the amount of damage is less than 250$ dollars.
    6. ???
    7. Profit!
  • Write your congressman, senator by okmijnuhb (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:44PM
  • role reversal by cr@ckwhore (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:44PM
  • vigilante "justice" is a complete middle finger by freejamesbrown (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:46PM
  • Anyone else notice this? (Score:3, Informative)

    by chazzf (188092) <cfulton.deepthought@org> on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:46PM (#3953849) Homepage Journal
    Having read through the bill, I'd like to make some observations.

    The bill defines a peer-to-peer network as being:

    two or more computers which are connected by computer software that (A) is primarily designed to (i) enable the connected computers to transmit files or data to other connected computers... (B) does not permanently route all file or data inquiries or searches through a designated, central computer located in the United States

    This would seem to obviate any centralized file-trading system (like Napster). In fact, it would exclude any system not truly peer-to-peer. Odd.

    The bill also includes provisions for suing the copyright holders if they cause at leaset "$50" in economic damages to you. However, it specifies "Monetary" damages. Does this mean hardware repair, as opposed to the less tangible lost bandwidth? If so, can we throw this back at their somewhat intangible "losses to piracy"?

    They also must notify the Justice Department 7 days in advance, as I read it. Given the shitfting nature of the Internet, that seems useless to the **AA.

    Okay, this bill sucks, but it doesn't seem nearly as dangerous (yet) as everyone makes it out to be.

    ~Chazzf
  • It'll turn P2P into a weapon... by Anonvmous Coward (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:47PM
  • So... by cluening (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:47PM
  • Gems of Farce by PMuse (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:47PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • So, how do you... by Warlock7 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:48PM
  • hackers are a myth by Sebastopol (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:49PM
  • perl -e "while(1) { system('curl http://www.mpaa.org > /dev/null'); }"
    'nuff said.

  • Google/Scientology by doofusdavid (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:49PM
  • Hmmm.... by Fizzlewhiff (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:51PM
  • USA is out on a limb totally. by miffo.swe (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:54PM
  • Implications for Google by Tall Rob Mc (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:55PM
  • I love the smell of napalm in the morning. by TrebleJunkie (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:57PM
  • i'm seriously considering... by caveat (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:57PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Silver Lining? by hsmyers (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:59PM
  • They have no idea... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by KC7GR (473279) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:00PM (#3953944) Homepage Journal
    ...what they're about to unleash.

    Even if this laughable bill doesn't become law, the very fact that the MPAA and RIAA are pushing for it is probably going to land the IP address ranges of both companies in an awful lot of locally-maintained E-mail and web proxy blacklists, just on principal alone.

    As for their tactics; Any SysAdmin worth their salt can easily detect, isolate, and block a DoS attack at the router level. Such an attack has little effect if the attacking system gets no response whatsoever from the target IP.

    In any case, that's really beside the point. The way I see it, this kind of crap has the potential to release a widespread public-relations and consumer backlash that the industry as a whole may never recover from.

  • Boycott by DaveWhite99 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:00PM
  • Oooo fun great depression and world war 3 by Odinson (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:02PM
  • I see many things wrong with this by Sandman1971 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:03PM
  • By that logic... by Dr. Bent (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:04PM
  • Fine by Craig Maloney (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:06PM
  • umm by kappax (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:09PM
  • Google are SCREWED! by wackybrit (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:15PM
  • Time for CryptAMP? by Quixadhal (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:15PM
  • One hell of a fine line... by jsimon12 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:17PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • 7 days warning: p2p will evolve by Fzz (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:19PM
  • Spooky prediction by Rogerborg (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:22PM
  • Consider yourself lucky by thegrendel (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:24PM
  • Write the opposing candidates, too (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lumpish Scholar (17107) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:30PM (#3954195) Homepage Journal
    In the U.S. (where the bill has been proposed), 2002 is an election year. All members of the House of Representatives, and one third of the members of the Sentate, are up for re-election. Every one of them has at least one opponent (both major parties have already held their local primary elections).

    Sure, write your elected officials. But write the people running against them, too. We want to send a clear message, no matter who wins in November.

    For extra credit, in addition to the letters to D.C., write one to each "committe to [re]elect" (a.k.a. "Friends of Blah Blah Blah"), and enclose a personal check to the committee. (Do not send cash!) It doesn't have to be big; ten or twenty dollars is enough to get a little attention. Our money talks, too!
  • Important reminder... by skydude_20 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:30PM
  • The Great Hacker War... by Sergeant Beavis (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:34PM
  • Hmmm... by pjt48108 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:35PM
  • Spam, Spam, Spam by thales (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:36PM
  • The Ultimate DoS by necrognome (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:37PM
  • Boycott MPAA: See the movies cheap! by ajs (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:37PM
  • License to commit acts of terrorism (Score:3, Insightful)

    by linuxbert (78156) on Thursday July 25 2002, @04:39PM (#3954290) Homepage Journal
    Correct me if im wrong, but are their not bills which have been passed, or are in the process of being passed that make acts such as these considered terrorism?

    Terrorism is wrong, unless your a big company....
  • On another note... by pjt48108 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:41PM
  • A call for mobilisation by peope (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:45PM
  • This is Not a call to DoS.. by SoSueMe (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:48PM
  • DoS students? by Brodie55 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:53PM
  • In other news by docstrange (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:55PM
  • Vote incumbants out. by Maul (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:55PM
  • Not that bad, actually by knodi (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:56PM
  • I am just /so/ glad.... by slayer99 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:57PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • What about us furriners? by ReginaldBarclay (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:58PM
  • Write your Congressman! by Kyani (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:12PM
  • What did you expect? by joelav22 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:13PM
  • What a load of putrid BS by Mr_Bethesda (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:15PM
  • Geekpac? by msimm (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:18PM
  • Heh. by wedg (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:19PM
  • What about other countries... by fpepin (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:29PM
  • Several thoughts on this horrific legislation by vsync64 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:34PM
  • users in other country's by umStefa (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:44PM
  • So We all Become Record/Movie Companies by Seldon_21 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:44PM
  • Berman is in favor of P2P! by evilpaul13 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:45PM
  • theoretical situation by neoThoth (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:45PM
  • Report on this on CNN.com... by ruiner13 (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:49PM
  • Attack on Sovereignty! Write your congressman! by mveloso (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:49PM
  • How to stop illegal P2P by V_drive (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:50PM
  • wait even better by neoThoth (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:54PM
  • Better erase your temp files by writertype (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:00PM
  • by cowtamer (311087) on Thursday July 25 2002, @06:06PM (#3954892) Journal
    Talking about "getting them back" is pointless.

    They will probably direct their DoS attacks against the internals of the P2P protocols, rather than the users machines. They will use disposable (and anonymous) nodes to do so--they may be unscrupulous, but they are not stupid.

    Nonetheless, the proposed law is extremely prone to being abused.

    What we need to do is start designing the next generation P2P systems that will be immune to things like legitimate-looking users posting bogus files, etc.

    ----------------
    Here's what I can think of on the spot

    1) Community-based systems (akin to slashdot) where some nodes have more "credibility" points.
    Node "karma" would be based on
    -Total Kbytes streamed out
    -Moderation by other "trusted" nodes

    The community aspect must not get in the way of reaching a "critical mass" of users, without which any P2P system is bound to fall.

    2) Ability to randomly sample small segments of files on remote nodes in order to determine whether they are legit. This would stop them from uploading complete garbage, or legitimate-looking beginnings followed by garbage.

    3) Distributed method of establishing trust. This is the tricky part. We could use public-key crypto in some fashion. Perhaps nodeID blacklists or whitelists could be distributed among the users, or uploaded to FreeNet. Before downloading a song from an unknown node, my machine would query 10-20 random nodes for blacklist info. This would make it a lot more difficult to set up random nodes hosting garbage.

    5) Other heuristics to determine the trustworthiness of nodes and/or files.

    7) Doing all of the above in a relatively speedy (i.e., not impractically slow such as gnuTella) and relatively anonymous/pseudonymous way.
    -----------

    Please reply (i.e., follow-up to the post) with any further ideas. Perhaps we can seed the minds of the developers who'll be coding the next generation of P2P software. Are there any ideas we can glean from eBay's trust management system?
  • I have one thing to say to the MPAA: by sudog (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:14PM
  • The RIAA and MPAA don't realize (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nogami_Saeko (466595) on Thursday July 25 2002, @06:22PM (#3954992)
    That they work for US.

    WE pay their salaries, WE pay their employees, WE pay their artists when WE buy their products.

    If they get us sufficiently mad, WE will not spend our hard-earned money on their products any more and THEY will feel it.

    It's about time to organize a month-long media boycott. Show the "big boys" exactly how much power we have over "their business". Pick a nice date like January, 2003, and just swear off ANY CD/Movie Ticket/DVD purchases for a month.

    Easy to do - if you wanna watch a movie or listen to some music, just borrow it from a friend, but don't spend a RETAIL DIME purchasing anything.
  • Can they commit any crime? by jaliathus (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:28PM
  • Did anybody consider tax paid and the money spent? by Geekonomical (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:34PM
  • Im interested in changes done on www.riaa.com ;) by peope (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:34PM
  • MPAA/RIAA = whiners by dh003i (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:37PM
  • Here's a good analogy... by Spleener12 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:43PM
  • anybody else think of South Park? by karlm (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:50PM
  • Possible problems for RIAA/MPAA by pavera (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @06:55PM
  • Why stop at computer crimes? by jcr (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:08PM
  • With the MPAA now doing evil... by AntiNorm (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:18PM
  • Spoof IP addresses. Let DoS the pentagon :-) by crovira (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:34PM
  • Not Much Allowed by InnovATIONS (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:52PM
  • Write to your congressmen! by marklyon (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:53PM
  • Strangely appropriate QOTD by AIM-9X (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:53PM
  • American Democracy at work by Craigj0 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:55PM
  • Ghandi said it best: by bludwulf (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:16PM
  • Copyright your IP by bogasity (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:27PM
  • Need some goddamn mirrors! by fire-eyes (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:28PM
  • White House Press Release by kurt555gs (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:37PM
  • ISPs? by Tar-Palantir (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @08:44PM
  • Freedom--more is less by Black Rabbit (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @09:18PM
  • Other actions to take. by no_choice (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @09:25PM
  • The MPAA had better be ready with the KY... by 1337G (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @09:51PM
  • ENFORCEMENT ISSUE? by Eric_Cartman_South_P (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @09:55PM
  • Artists? by Xeri (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @09:59PM
  • International ramifications by ignavus (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @10:20PM
  • If they hack your PC... by Eric Damron (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @10:29PM
  • Mostly harmless by Art_Vandelai (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @10:53PM
  • Eye for an eye by NPE (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @11:25PM
  • It's interesting... by geekindustries (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @11:34PM
  • Open season by metoc (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @12:43AM
  • DDoS? by sharph (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @01:06AM
  • Hrmm... by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @02:16AM
  • Net Police (Score:3, Informative)

    by MartyJG (41978) on Friday July 26 2002, @03:05AM (#3956781) Homepage
    The music industry is already using a company called NetPD [netpd.com] to hunt down and kill copyrighted material. Unfortunately they don't just go for the files. They were interviewed for a 'cybercrime' documentary on the BBC recently and they explained they find out who is distributing the files (includes P2P clients as well as websites) and sends one of those we've-got-lawyers, your-customer-hasn't letters to your ISP.

    (I'd LOVE to waste some of my spare bandwidth/cpucycles hammering the servers they use to search for files - but this would have to be done by a larger number of users than just me.)
  • could backfire... by Vaughn Anderson (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @03:21AM
  • I'm Concerned On The International Implications by Sideways2 (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @03:34AM
  • Goody Goody - It's Open Season by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @03:51AM
  • Sony flouts NZ copyright laws with impunity by NewtonsLaw (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @03:53AM
  • contact riaa on http://www.riaa.com/Contact.cfm by Phil John (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @03:54AM
  • *If* they have the technical means. by David McBride (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @04:44AM
  • They have all this money ... by innerlimit (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @04:54AM
  • What I don't understand... by Squeeze Truck (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @04:59AM
  • international ramifications by mrowlands (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @05:45AM
  • Hey, MPAA and RIAA, we have this new thing... by great unnicked mass (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @07:12AM
  • I Found The Money by KunningStunt (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @07:14AM
  • Unfortunately, there's a precedent by LittleGuy (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @07:28AM
  • What difference does it make? by HuskyDog (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @07:32AM
  • Pass it! by cryptographrix (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @07:34AM
    • PS.... by cryptographrix (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @10:08AM
  • Internationally by A Cheese Danish (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @07:47AM
  • Copy of e-mail to rep berman by Steve Franklin (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @08:11AM
  • It's ill conceived, by seanyboy (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @10:02AM
  • I wonder... by LifesABeach (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @10:53AM
  • Boston Globe has story by dughat (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @11:09AM
  • Reuters take on things by Martin S. (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @11:54AM
  • First draft talking points. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Irvu (248207) on Friday July 26 2002, @12:08PM (#3959338)
    Heres a first draft of what came to my mind as I read this (Copyright) "Business Vigilante law":
    1. Permits larger corporations to take the law into their own hands in dealing with alleged piracy. Vigilatism was illegal the last time that I looked.
    2. Permits a shoot-first and ask questions later approach to dealing with the issue as the actors are permitted to first invade or otherwise attach an individual's system and then inform the Justice department. (Do the inform the TIPS program of what else they find?)
    3. Opens the door for wider vigilantism by promoting the idea that, where corporate interests are concerned, the Law cannot be trusted.
    4. Opens the door to wider public vigilantism by making it apparent that anyone is entitled to break into their neighbors home and look around just on the off chance that said neighbor stole their missing saw.
    5. Puts more power on large corporations in a time when we are constantly facing a torrent of scandals showing just how little these groups can be trusted.
    6. Permits copyright holders a loophole to engage in acts that are federal offences under current law thus making it apparent that the law does not equally apply.
    7. Permits individuals who have suffered damage at the hands of these cyber-vigilantes only civil courts as a remedy. Thus forcing individuals, and small businesses into an arena where they cannot compete with the well-staffed and well-funded legal teams of the Motion Picture Industry Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America. Indeed by making civil suit the only option it virtually guaranteed immunity to these companies who can afford many expensive lawsuits versus the universities, ISPs and individuals who will be targeted, most likely randomly. This will kill any sort of public Internet as anyone who has the potential for making files available has the potential to be hacked.
    8. This will crush the utility of the Internet as a social and economic medium. What is the incentive for a university, business, or individual to go online if they face the potential for legally sanctioned hacking. The whole point of the current "get-tought on cybercime laws" is to promote the Internet for people and businesses by reducing the likelihood of destructive and privacy invasive hacking. This bill not only promotes such hacking thus increasing its frequency but gives it a legal sanction thus reducing the ability of Individuals and Businesses to seek legal redress. Ironically it is the lack of such redress that has been driving many of the current cybercrime initiatives.
    9. This will raise the amount of such suspicious activity as DoS attacks in this country at a time when the Defense department and Department of Justice are asserting that cyberwar is inevitable and that we need to be prepared for it. In effect this will raise the surrounding "noise" of hacking and make it more difficult for the Justice department and our Security agencies to sort out "legal" hacking from "illegal" hacking.
    10. opens the door for rampant domestic spying. In the this law is the computer equivalent of granting the rights to anyone to invade my home, read my private documents, and scan my activities just on the off chance that this has anything illegal in them.
    11. This will DESTROY privacy on the Internet, and make possible a wider degree of citizen reporting and domestic spying this time by vigilantes not the government. However, what's to stop these groups from using the information that they obtain on me in the course of "checking for contraband"? What is to stop them from sending anything they see to the proposed TiPS program? In short, nothing. This bill will crush personal privacy in the name of business interests and kill any hope of using the Internet reasonably in the process. Anytime I bring my computer online I might as well be opening my door for inspection.
    12. Lastly, and most importantly, this bill WILL NOT WORK. Even if these groups are permitted to carry around this large legal stick and beat people randomly with it, it will not "solve" the problem of piracy nor will it make our nation any more secure. In the end truly determined pirates will take their trading to a different (more hack-proof) type of network, small businesses, and individuals who are subject to these raids will be crushed, and the internet will cease to be a viable economic medium.
      1. Just a few comments

      2. Irvu.
  • Bits without context is noise by fishyfrank (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @12:15PM
  • BBC's Take by Martin S. (Score:2) Friday July 26 2002, @12:16PM
  • What if... by MoogMan (Score:1) Friday July 26 2002, @12:55PM
  • Re:The MPAA is declaring war (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Old Uncle Bill (574524) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:34PM (#3953113) Journal
    200 MPAA goons with script kiddie crap vs. 200,000 pissed off hackers. Who are you putting your money on?
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Omg by tj500 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:39PM
  • Re:What's the big deal? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nidhogg (161640) <shr,thanatos&gmail,com> on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:40PM (#3953187) Journal
    Not everyone feels there's no harm in doing it. I don't see the sense in it in any circumstance.

    I think it's the duplicity that the government is showing is what everyone has a problem with.

    "DoS'ing people is bad. Bad bad bad bad bad. Oh wait a minute... except for them."

    It's just another instance of someone trying to have it both ways.

    [ Parent ]
    • Re:What's the big deal? by Zico (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:45PM
      • Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MegaGremlin (216264) on Thursday July 25 2002, @03:11PM (#3953523) Homepage Journal
        Except for the very small legal issue that until you are proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, you are in fact innocent.

        What this bill boils down to, is that a group wants a special privelege to defend itself against a crime that has technically not occurred. They're asking for the ability to act as an arm of the judicial system, wherein they can determine whether a crime has been committed and determine the proper remedy, and then become an agent of the executive, and actually dole out the punishment.

        Not a whole lot of due process going on here.

        [ Parent ]
      • Will someone please mod this guy into oblivion? by theLOUDroom (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:25PM
  • Re:Like a cop? by RatBastard (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:41PM
  • Re:Like a cop? by CableModemSniper (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:42PM
  • Re:Like a cop? by Cainam (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:43PM
  • Re:What's the big deal? by no reason to be here (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @02:43PM
  • What utter and complete crap (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FreeUser (11483) on Thursday July 25 2002, @02:47PM (#3953274) Homepage
    You must be a troll (or a cartel lackey ... the hotmail account should give it away I suppose).

    A lot of people around here think there's no harm in hackers doing that to other people's computers, going so far to squeal when they get "ratted out" by others or end up in court for their actions.

    Very few here thing that illegally cracking system security and breaking into computer systems is a "good thing." A fair number of people take exception to the absurd disparity between sentences and the severity of the crime, but few (if any) argue that engaging in this sort of behavior is in any way a positive act.

    But when governments and large corporations can go around vandalizing and harming people legally, and the law makes it illegal to defend against such acts (by perhaps doing the same thing) for individuals, then, by any definition, we live under tyranny.

    As uncool to say, and as extreme as it sounds, the digital sky is truly falling. Our freedom of expression is under wholesale and organized and concerted attack from both the media cartels and Microsoft, and the tame politicians they have in their pockets, and the reasonable sounding denials of these very stark facts don't make them any less true. We will either wake up and get involved politically and socially, educating our representatives and the lay public about these issues, or, just like the British Crown did with the printing press when it enacted the first iteration of copyright law, we will have the modern, digital equivelent of the printing press taken from us. In other words, our ability to speak and publish freely, and be heard, will be taken from us, and modern general purpose computers as we've come to know them will become a very restricted item.

    Even Microsoft is publicly admitting that the end of open computing is at hand ... they are preparing the public consciousness for exactly this event ... having the industry and government thugs come into our personal lives and, in a very personal way, tell us exactly what we can and cannot do.

    If you are such a lackey, or so blinded by your own petty greed or agenda, that you cannot see this coming, then you will no doubt be getting exactly what you deserve. Unfortunately, the rest of us, who have the observational and congnative skills that exceed those of the common garden slug, will be taken down into the pit along with you.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Notice how it is the JEW who is behind this? by sjgman9 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:01PM
  • Re:whew by Mooset (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:06PM
    • Re:whew by topham (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:13PM
  • Re:Omg by Bodhammer (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:20PM
  • Re:What's the big deal? by Hrothgar The Great (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:23PM
  • Re:this cracks me up by inode_buddha (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @03:49PM
  • Re:Here's an idea... by leperjuice (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:29PM
  • Re:this cracks me up by Melantha_Bacchae (Score:2) Thursday July 25 2002, @04:58PM
  • Re:hypothetical situation by Nocturnal66 (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @05:11PM
  • Re:cdreward@riaa.com by peope (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:16PM
  • Re:Notice how it is the JEW who is behind this? by JudgeFurious (Score:1) Thursday July 25 2002, @07:42PM
  • 95 replies beneath your current threshold.
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