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Government United States

Should the Word 'Milk' Be Used To Describe Nondairy Milk-Alternative Products? (arstechnica.com) 520

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems to have soured on nondairy milk-alternative products that use the term "milk" in their marketing and labeling -- like popular soy and almond milk products. In a talk hosted by Politico, FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb announced Tuesday that the FDA will soon issue a new guidance on the use of the term. But he added that products aren't abiding by FDA policies as they stand now. He referenced a so-called "standard of identity" policy that regulates how milk is defined and should be identified. "If you look at our standard of identity -- there is a reference somewhere in the standard of identity to a lactating animal," he said. "And, you know, an almond doesn't lactate, I will confess."

He went on to explain that the issue is that the agency hasn't been enforcing its own policy or putting the squeeze on product makers -- and that it's time to get abreast of the labeling language. But, he admitted, curtailing the wording of non-moo juice labeling isn't an easy task because it means that the agency has to change its "regulatory posture." "I can't just do it unilaterally," Gottlieb said. Hence, the agency is putting together a new guidance for manufacturers to help skim the fat from the market. Gottlieb said the agency will soon tap the public for comments on the terminology and hopes to wring out a new policy within a year.

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Should the Word 'Milk' Be Used To Describe Nondairy Milk-Alternative Products?

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  • Coconuts (Score:5, Informative)

    by amalcolm ( 1838434 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:03AM (#56973326)
    The 'juice' inside a coconut has always been called milk AFAIR. It's a natural thing to do, to extend the use of a word to cover something 'similar'. We do it all the time, and in the case of these products which are pitched as cow's mile replacements, there seems even more reason to do so.
    • Re:Coconuts (Score:5, Interesting)

      by freeze128 ( 544774 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:16AM (#56973404)
      Honestly, I'm confused with the difference between coconut milk, and coconut water.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      But you buy Coconut water in stores. This isn't about what you call it, it's about what you market it to be.

      Almonds don't have nipples, so we should just call it what it is: Nut-juice. Or Nut-squeezins.

    • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:22AM (#56973442)

      The 'juice' inside a coconut has always been called milk AFAIR. It's a natural thing to do, to extend the use of a word to cover something 'similar'.

      It's not similar and just because something has been done a certain way doesn't make it accurate. If it comes from a plant it is by definition not milk. Milk is a substance secreted by mammals to feed their young. If it doesn't come from a mammal it isn't milk. If it comes from a plant it is juice. So the accurate term is coconut juice.

      We do it all the time, and in the case of these products which are pitched as cow's mile replacements, there seems even more reason to do so.

      Just because something is a substitute doesn't mean you should call it something different than what it actually is. Margarine is (sometimes) a butter substitute but we don't call it butter. If it is a liquid derived from a plant then it is (generally) supposed to be called juice. Nothing wrong with saying coconut juice or soy juice or almond juice. Just coloring something white doesn't make it milk.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        While I agree that "we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way" is not an argument, your entire argument seems to be "because 'we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way' is not an argument, we should not keep doing it that way".
        • While I agree that "we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way" is not an argument,

          Correct.

          your entire argument seems to be "because 'we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way' is not an argument, we should not keep doing it that way".

          You got yourself twisted up in your knickers there trying to pretend you are smart. We already have a perfectly adequate word for consumable liquids derived from plants. We call it juice. Marketing people keep trying to pretend that plant juice somehow becomes milk if it happens to be (or is made to be) white. If it didn't come from a mammal then it by definition is not milk and no amount of marketing BS will make it so. Call products what they are and life is a lot simpler.

          • by orgelspieler ( 865795 ) <w0lfie@ma c . c om> on Thursday July 19, 2018 @02:53PM (#56975840) Journal

            Almond milk is no more juice than it is milk. It doesn't come from a fruit, and it's not pressed out of a plant as a liquid. It is a white mixture of protein and fat suspended in a liquid, and in that regard is much more like milk than juice. Just because the marketing department came up with a sensible thing to call a product, doesn't mean they are conniving to deceive anybody.

            Next thing you know, people will be all pissed off because peanut butter isn't really butter. When it comes to names we have given things, "we have always done it that way" is a perfectly cromulent argument. If everybody knows what almond milk is, then changing the name to something else will cause more confusion, not less.

        • by AvitarX ( 172628 )

          Language is an example of when "we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way" holds weight though. Of the words have always been used a way, I don't see how anyone can make an argument that that's not what they mean. Obviously one needs to allow for linguistic shift, but certainky if a word has been used in a way for decades it doesn't make sense to by dictate change its meaning.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The term milk, in the context of food, has been applied to many things other than mammary gland products for a very long time.

        For that matter, the cow milk you buy in the supermarket really isn't raw milk. It's a processed product made from milk. If you set a glass of freshly milked cow milk, right from the udder, in front of the average person and they'll be anything but pleased.

        All of the above, though, is completely pointless because this topic has nothing to do with definitions of what milk is. That's j

      • Acid Test (Score:5, Informative)

        by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:01AM (#56973730)

        The problem is language is fluid. It's been called coconut milk for centuries. Changing it to coconut juice would be more confusing than leaving it alone.

        I think the important thing here is the modifier. As long as you are calling it "Almond Milk" or "Soy Milk" it would be pretty obvious to the average consumer that it isn't dairy milk, especially as the already common term "Coconut Milk" is in use.

        Doing this is common in many languages. German is famous for mashing existing words together to make new ones.

        • by inflex ( 123318 )

          Yes, had this very same argument with some locals. Farmers/Beef-industry/diary ... getting all upset about this topic, meanwhile the megacorp supermarkets drive them to the wall at the gate with the absurdly low payouts for their produce. Not like changing the definition / criterion is going to suddenly improve their profit margins, if anything this will just alienate more people.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by eepok ( 545733 )

          I disagree that "language is fluid" because while it's kinda true in a very specific way, it really, really isn't true in most other considerations. Changes to language happen, but it doesn't mean they should be adopted into permanence. In fact, here are a bunch of words that have been invented or whose definitions are in flux because some people want to control others:

          Mansplaining: Defined as the the condescending explanation of a concept from a man/male to a woman/female. This word was intentionally creat

      • By Definition? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:14AM (#56973832)

        If it comes from a plant it is by definition not milk.

        By Definition? The number two definition of milk from Websters is "a liquid resembling milk in appearance: such as a) the latex of a plant b) the contents of an unripe kernel of grain."

        • If it comes from a plant it is by definition not milk.

          By Definition? The number two definition of milk from Websters is "a liquid resembling milk in appearance: such as a) the latex of a plant b) the contents of an unripe kernel of grain."

          What kind of balderdash shit is this?

          Noun:
          1: A thing that is the thing.
          2: A thing that is not the thing, but looks like the thing.

          I guess counterfeit money is money!

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Here's a list of things you should fight next:
        Peanut butter
        Almond butter
        Cocoa butter
        Cream of Wheat
        Grape Nuts
        Milk of Magnesia

        Good luck with that!

    • Re:Coconuts (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Farmer Tim ( 530755 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:26AM (#56973470) Journal

      I want to know if they’re also going after peanut butter, which may be something spread on bread but isn’t a substitute for dairy butter in any other application (just in case anyone was thinking of using it to reenact the scene from Last Tango In Paris).

      • That's funny.

        Actually they have a strict definition of what is peanut butter and what isn't. In the store, next to the peanut butter, you'll see cheaper "peanut spread". This is because the nutritional value of peanut butter is well known (high protein along with sugar, which is fine for growing kids), while the nutritional value of the cheaper peanut spread may be very different.

      • Re:Coconuts (Score:5, Interesting)

        by quenda ( 644621 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:40AM (#56973996)

        I want to know if they’re also going after peanut butter

        When I was a kid in Western Australia, we had "Peanut Paste".
        The dairy lobby had successfully lobbied for a ban on the use of "butter" for non-dairy products.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • Especially since you'd have to be pretty hopelessly oblivious to confuse one of the non-dairy milks with cow milk. This is an absolute non-issue.
      • by Jaime2 ( 824950 )
        Well... the most common definition of dairy seems to be "containing or made from milk". So, it seems that a place with a lot of coconut trees is technically a dairy farm and coconut milk is a dairy product, by recursive definition.
  • If no, then it should not be allowed to describe a non-dairy product.

    • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:42AM (#56973576)

      I think it would be fair to call non-dairy from vegetable matter milk, milk just as long as it can be used as a replacement for dairy milk.
      A protein rich fluid, either from an animal, or from plant matter, if can be used for similar food preparations. Say for baking could safely be considered Milk. just as long as it is noted that it is non-dairy and from what type of plant, as to help people avoid allergic reactions. As a lot of non-dairy milk comes from nuts and seeds which some people have allergic relations too, (As some people have an allergy to Milk (Allergy vs intolerance))
       

  • I vote for (Score:5, Funny)

    by jabberw0k ( 62554 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:05AM (#56973342) Homepage Journal
    "Almond Flesh Cocktail"
  • Finally! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:08AM (#56973362)
    Its about time that Washington addresses the real problems that are harming Americans.
  • I'm so glad (Score:5, Funny)

    by jockeys ( 753885 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:16AM (#56973400) Journal
    that enough of the world's problems have been solved... that we find ourselves having to devote time and energy to "solving" this "problem."

    What a time to be alive.
    • Re:I'm so glad (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Gilgaron ( 575091 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:29AM (#56973488)
      Enforcing trade names in food matters at least a little. I guess for a while people were selling 'prepared guacamole' that did not contain avocado. Similarly, being able to call a product 'peanut butter' has rules. For stuff like vegetable milk, you occasionally hear professionals trying to keep people informed that they aren't equivalent to animal milk when it comes to feeding young children. I think the last jug of coconut milk I bought had such a warning on the carton.
      • So... People are stupid and don't want to learn, so let's dumb down products so stupid, ignorant people can remain in that state?

        You know, Idiocracy was not supposed to be an utopian movie...

        • Re:I'm so glad (Score:5, Informative)

          by Pulzar ( 81031 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:08AM (#56973792)

          It's not only that people are stupid. It's important that you can't sell ground rat and call it ground beef. Some enforcement is welcome, and it shouldn't be up to the consumers to investigate every single item in the store to determine whether they really are what they say they are.

          • Re:I'm so glad (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:36AM (#56973972)

            Almond and soy milk are sold as cow milk? That's outrageous!

            No, wait... almond milk is actually called almond milk, and soy milk gets sold as soy milk. It's not even "milk". It's without fail sold with the qualifier "almond" or "soy".

            And sorry, if people are too stupid to know that you don't squeeze cows and milk almonds, I have very, very little sympathy for them.

        • Well, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, yeah, you're 100% correct. On the other hand, stupid, ignorant people die when food labels aren't idiot proof.

          There was a news story just this week of a teenager with a deathly peanut allergy. Always ate Chips Ahoy in the red package because it was safe. Went to a friend's house and that same package had "with Reeses Pieces bites" slapped all over the sides, but she just saw the familiar color, and slammed down a couple of cookies. Couple minutes later her throat starts cl

          • Well, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, yeah, you're 100% correct. On the other hand, stupid, ignorant people die when food labels aren't idiot proof.

            You're not exactly helping your argument...

        • For the peanut butter example, you can get peanut butter at a farmer's market that is just ground peanuts. If you buy Jiff it has a bunch of other stuff. If you buy Peter Pan it is roughly equivalent to Jiff. They follow industry standards for ingredients and shelf life, etc. If I make an opaque brown emulsion of soy bean oil and wheat flour, flavored with some peanut essential oil, can I call it peanut butter? (the answer is No, courtesy trade associations by peanut farmers) Sure, you could tell it w
  • No (Score:2, Informative)

    by DaFallus ( 805248 )
    If its not from a mammary gland, its not milk. Codex Alimentarius already has a defined standard for milk: "the normal mammary secretion of milking animals obtained from one or more milkings without either addition to it or extraction from it, intended for consumption as liquid milk or for further processing."
  • by rhadc ( 14182 )

    Non-dairy milk alternatives have an easy solution. Adopt the midwest's pronunciation and just call it "melk". Easy enough, right?

  • Soon! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "And, you know, an almond doesn't lactate, I will confess."

    With CRISPR, I'm sure that will change soon enough...

  • Is there nondairy milk-alternative product in my pasteurized process cheese food?
  • Milking it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Translation Error ( 1176675 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:29AM (#56973494)
    Oh, I wonder if this is Beth Mole article?
    • The U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems to have soured
    • putting the squeeze on product makers
    • time to get abreast of the labeling language
    • to help skim the fat from the market
    • will soon tap the public for comments
    • and hopes to wring out a new policy within a year

    Why, yes, yes it is.

    • The U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems to have soured
      putting the squeeze on product makers
      time to get abreast of the labeling language
      to help skim the fat from the market
      will soon tap the public for comments
      and hopes to wring out a new policy within a year

      Burma Shave

  • Personally, I'd be a little terrified to meet the mammal that secretes milk glass. Fortunately, the FDA probably won't come after that one, as if you're eating milk glass, you have other more serious problems that need immediate attention.

  • There needs to be a definition. Something simple like Mammal Mammary Sweat = Milk, Squeezed/Pulped Plant = Juice

    I think calling all white liquids that can be swallowed as milk, problematic
  • by Revek ( 133289 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:40AM (#56973552)

    Will they have to change the name of milk of magnesia?

  • malk Now With Vitamin R!

  • This whole thing makes me sick. I'm going to need to take some white juice of magnesia.
  • better-than-milk (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gti_guy ( 875684 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:48AM (#56973634)
    If they can't call it milk, they should call it "better-than-milk". That should keep the dairy folks happy.
  • by Framboise ( 521772 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:52AM (#56973668)

    The Milky Way is a millenium old trickery to confuse people about the nature of our Galaxy. This should be stopped! Not only Mars Inc., but astronomers have more recently abused common sense with their Milky Way Bar...

  • If you can't extend a word's original meaning, I have a few other suggestions on such words:
    • Bandwidth (it has to do with frequencies, not bit rates)
    • Hoverboard (only use it for things that actually hover)
    • Android (it's a kind of robot, so it would be nice if phone companies didn't sue robot companies over it)

    Also, the word "blog" should not be used for non-diary products.

  • If you English speaking people can call peanut paste "peanut butter" then I don't see why you couldn't call stuff that resembles milk "milk" ;-)

    (Note in Dutch we call it peanut cheese :p)

  • What other verb is so descriptive of providing something of not much value apart from fad hype to consumers at a premium price?

    Oh wait, you are referring to the suspension of fat particles in water. Never mind...

  • Shall we decree what we call Coke and Pepsi? Is it "pop", "cola", "soda", "soda pop", "soft drink", or just plain "coke"? My guess is government regulations will mandate it be labeled as "Carbonated water with flavoring".

    So, can I have a "Carbonated water with cola flavoring from the Coke Classic recipe with rum" for me and a "cow sourced dairy product that has been reduced to 2% dairy fat, homogenized, pasteurized and has had sweetened chocolate flavoring added" for the kid here.

    Seriously, this is stup

  • The point of standard of identity regulations is so that consumers aren't fooled into buying one thing when they think they are buying another. It's consumer-friendly regulation. It prevents companies from selling margarine as "butter".

    But "soy milk", "almond milk" and "coconut milk" are the proper English names for those things; everybody knows they don't come out of a cow -- in fact that's the whole point of those products. So why is the administration looking at this question?

    It's the kind of regulato

  • Just like "krab" is used for the imitation crab meat made from whitefish, we should use the word "milc" for imitation milk made from soy, almond, etc.
  • by careysub ( 976506 ) on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:50AM (#56974066)

    The FDA defines "noodles" as a product made from wheat flour and eggs, neither of which Asian cuisines use in their noodles, so for many years they had to be called "alimentary paste" in the grocery store. But when you went to an Asian restaurant you got "noodles" (of course the same product).

    Eventually the FDA relented and allowed them to be called "Asian noodles".

    Perhaps we can call these products "vegan milk" (though this is really no different from the more specific "soy milk", etc.)?

    The difference of course is there are no "noodle producers" associations of industrial farmers whose primary product are noodles.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Thursday July 19, 2018 @02:18PM (#56975654)

    Call it animal udder secretion and he how the kids will love to drink that.

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