Newegg Sues Patent Troll After Troll Dropped Its Own Lawsuit (arstechnica.com) 174
WheezyJoe writes: Not satisfied that a patent troll dropped its lawsuit against them, Newegg has sued the troll. So-called "patent holding company" Minero Digital sought to exact royalty payments on a wide range of USB hubs, suing, among others, Newegg's subsidiary Rosewill. But the "non-practicing entity" dropped its East Texas lawsuit against Rosewill within days of getting a call from the Newegg's lawyer. However, Minero dismissed its Texas lawsuit "without prejudice", meaning it can refile the case at a time of its choosing. So, Newegg filed its own lawsuit against Minero in Los Angeles federal court, asking a judge to lay down a ruling that Minero's case against Rosewill is baseless. Says Newegg's Chief Legal Officer Lee Cheng, "Minero's case does not have merit, and its patent is not only expired but would suck even if it wasn't expired. Now that they have started the litigation, it would be irresponsible for Newegg to not finish it."
LOL (Score:4, Funny)
I love newegg... sue the bastards... unfortunately I don't see newegg getting financial compensation.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
They are not asking for any financial compensation. They are doing it a) because they can and b) because the troll had it dismissed without prejudice, meaning they could file again.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
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It also serves as warning for other patent trolls to stay away from Newegg because they will fight back.
A warning would be a strongly worded letter. NewEgg doesn't give warnings. They go to war. So they filed suit. Gotta love 'em for it.
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Or.. it may just signal to patent trolls that if you have a case pending in East Texas (where you probably already one just based on location) you must continue with it no matter what. Otherwise they might get you from somewhere that the courts are less corrupt.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:LOL (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think he's objecting to the placement of the apostrophe. Thinks that it should be "trolls' " rather than "troll's". I agree, but that's being picky.
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You stopped shopping at newegg because you are the dumbass? You said they labeled it, so not false advertising, and they went out of their way to send you one when they had no obligation so since it was your fault for not reading the description. That sounds like good customer service and I would continue shopping at newegg because they did such a big favour.
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Perhaps not directly, but I'm now considering making my next purchase from NewEgg rather than from a local store.
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Well I for one will buy more stuff from Newegg. When most other companies are just looking for the bottom line, NewEgg is actually working to make the world a better place.
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(Are they in America? I guess it's likely, because Texas is almost in America.)
Re: Newegg serve the UK, and other regions. (Score:2)
Hmmm, beats my usual supplier by about 6% for a 4TB external hard drive. That is definitely worth remembering.
Newegg's Marketing Department may have reason to go around to the Legal Department for a mutual high-five. I'd literally NEVER have considered them before because previou
Idea for anti-troll group (Score:5, Interesting)
Carthage must be destroyed!
The TPTA will just give more power to the trolls (Score:2)
The TPTA will just give more power to the trolls
Re:Idea for anti-troll group (Score:5, Insightful)
And its fields salted. Defeat of patent trolls shouldn't be the object. Utter and complete destruction and the disbarment of their lawyers should be the proper goal. Don't just defeat those evil sociopathic monsters, make sure they're living in a gutter after it's done.
Re:Idea for anti-troll group (Score:5, Insightful)
Trouble is, the only actual patent troll is the patent office. There wouldn't be any of the people you call "patent trolls" if they didn't have the government on their side to begin with.
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Your statement implies a different meaning to "patent troll" than what is generally in use here. This is a troll tactic, but perhaps was not done in pun.
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Not so much, the patent office gets paid to grant capricious patents, which are then used to harm legitimate businesses. So they're abusing bad patents for their own profit and screwing over innovators in the process.
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The only alternative would be to fund it out of general taxation.
That's a bad thing because there's no metric[1] involved, which means they'd be totally immune to market forces or performance related bonuses and before you know it there'd be unions, socialised healthcare and compulsory gay marriage. And nobody could be fired. Ever. Even if they shit on the coffee machine.
[1] Like a KPI, not the stupid faggoty measurement system all the wrong countrie
Re:Idea for anti-troll group (Score:4, Insightful)
Not so much, the patent office gets paid to grant capricious patents
As technology has gotten more complex, the patent office's ability to properly evaluate applications has diminished. As such, the patent office has become a registry, leaving it to the courts to decide. Unfortunately, that is a very expensive and inefficient way to evaluate innovation. Although the litigants do pay substantial court fees, it would still cost taxpayers less to allocate more money to the patent office to hire more AND better patent examiners.
(Partially because corporations will just deduct court (and other litigation) costs, and partially because the cost will be passed along to the consumers. So, no. Shifting the court costs to the litigants won't save taxpayers' money, only change the route the money follows when it leaves the taxpayers' accounts/wallets/whatever.)
Re:Idea for anti-troll group (Score:5, Insightful)
You can trace a large part of the problem back to the patent office decision to not require a working copy before granting a patent. And for software, even worse, to not require the source code.
Congressional & Court, not PTO, Problem? (Score:3)
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As technology has gotten more complex, the patent office's ability to properly evaluate applications has diminished.
And as patent examiners have gotten stupider. I guarantee there are exactly zero budding Albert Einstein's working for the patent office now. They're so fucking stupid that they grant patents for non-innovative things simply because someone tacked "using a computer" or "with a computer" onto it.
Seriously. "A method for adding two numbers using a computer." You didn't see any patents for things like "A method for adding two numbers using a calculator" or "A method for adding two numbers using a slide rul
Re:Idea for anti-troll group (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, as someone who has friends who are inventors and hold patents, I think they deserve compensation for the effort they put into their inventions. But the thing is, they're real inventions, not bogus ones. The bogus ones are the problem.
I was CTO of a small software developer back in the early 00s, and every couple of weeks someone would come into my office with a printout of something they'd read on the Internet, and as soon as the word "patent" came out of their mouth, I'd stop them right there.
"This is going to be one of those things where they took something people had been doing with LORAN for years and substituted 'GPS' or 'LORAN', isn't it?"
"Well, LORAN was mentioned in the prior art..."
"Stop!" I'd say, putting my fingers in my ears. "I am not going to read that thing, I'm not even going to listen to you, because (a) it's a bogus patent and (b) if I knowingly do the obvious thing in that patent we'll be facing treble damages."
The real problem is bogus patents that dress up the obvious way an experienced practitioner would solve a problem in obscure language. If patents were uniformly genuine inventions then I wouldn't have a problem with non-practicing entities buying them and enforcing them. That wouldn't be a pitfall to just doing your job as an engineer.
Furthermore (Score:4, Interesting)
Once the lawyers have been disbarred, all parties involved should then be brought on criminal charges of extortion:
The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.
Re:Furthermore (Score:5, Funny)
Once the lawyers have been disbarred, all parties involved should then be brought on criminal charges of extortion:
The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.
You're obviously not a lawyer. That's both a criticism of your suggested legal tactics and an endorsement of you as a human being.
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"Utter and complete destruction and the disbarment of their lawyers should be the proper goal."
Sounds nice. But lawyers sometimes merely represent their clients. What is good for the patent troll would need to be applicable to the driver injured by a faulty seat belt, the coed harmed by a defective hair curler, the parent whose child was suffocated by a badly designed crib. Lawyers facing disbarment for being identified as facilitating spurious or frivolous prosecution might be saying no to all kinds of
I'm pretty sure tha tjust following orders (Score:1)
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From what I can tell, most of the patent trolls are just legal firms.
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Hmmm....I think you mean "dismemberment" of their lawyers. It is best not to leave them a way out.
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Sounds good, but could you work some "lamentations of their women" into it somewhere?
Re:Idea for anti-troll group (Score:4, Informative)
A group of companies should form a NATO-like pact, binding the companies to employ scorched-earth tactics whenever sued by a patent troll.
Carthage must be destroyed!
Your suggestion doesn't help much. Avoiding things like this is one of the reasons you put patents into an NPE [wikipedia.org] - they don't have any other business or valuables you can come after. Put one patent in each sub-entity, and you avoid any chance of losing more than the patent - and if you lost, it wasn't that valuable anyway.
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All the legal wrangling costs money. The more often they lose and then have to pay compensation, the more likely they are to be a net loss. If most of them turn out to be a net loss, they will dry up and blow away.
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What he was pointing out was the the shell company fronting the suit wouldn't have any resourced to recover damages, or even lawyers fees, from.
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True, but they will lose the patent and whatever they paid for it plus legal fees. Further, they might stand to lose earlier gains on the same patent as they delay cash transfers to avoid comingling of funds (which could expose the parent company to liability).
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From what I understand, the courts get pissed about this and have started to break through such 'protections' if it's obvious that the company was set up simply to 'shelter' the parent company from judgements against them.
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You do realize that sort of mentality is why 'the south' is like it is today ... right? Because they burned it to the ground on the march through.
I hate patent trolls more than the next guy, but that would be a dumb idea.
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A group of companies should form a NATO-like pact, binding the companies to employ scorched-earth tactics whenever sued by a patent troll.
Carthage must be destroyed!
Now that's a crowd-source idea. I'll throw in $100 a month! Well, as long as I can see the paper trails, literally and figuratively.
- K
Re: (Score:2)
s/crowd-sourcing/crowd-funding/
Whoopsie!
Minero Digital delenda est (Score:2)
"would suck" is not a legal arguement (Score:1)
"Minero's case does not have merit, and its patent ... would suck even if it wasn't expired."
It's true, it's hilarious, but it's not an argument to make in court.
"it would not be in the public interest even if it wasn't expired" is marginally better.
"it would be invalid even if it wasn't expired, for the following reasons..." is much better, as long as the reasons it is invalid are legally sound.
But yeah, "it sucks" does have a nice ring to it. Just not in a courtroom.
I think it's a good choice of word (Score:2)
I mean, if even Spock can use it [youtube.com], I guess it's good.
Had to revise from "totally sucks donkey balls" (Score:2)
"would suck" was the edit to make it sound better. And, relatively speaking, it's an improvement from a legal standpoint, imho.
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I'd agree if he were making a point in a case of law. He's not in this context. This is a quote for the masses. "it sucks" seems appropriate for a random news bite.
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They need to step cautiously, but quickly, striking with an iron fist - these are the kind of scum that might even have a patent on "patents that suck"
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The patent (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.google.com/patents... [google.com]
I'm kind of curious to see someone explain how this invention is different from all the other daisy-chain serial bus connections that were in use in 1995 when this was filed.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm more curious to see someone explain how USB's tree-structured topology could be construed as a daisy-chain.
Daisy chains require:
- all devices must provide a pass-through for the next item on the bus (with the exception of attenuation terminators, which aren't an addressable device on the bus, but merely an electrical necessity)
- there can be no multiple-output devices or branches in the topology
If it has branching or input-only devices, it's not a daisy-chain topology. USB has both, and is therefore not
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Not certain it's relevant. The claims never use the term daisy chain, and that's where the legal force is.
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There's still a possibility that a daisy chain master device is one of slaves on a daisy chain, creating a branch.
You can do this on the 1-wire bus for example.
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Branchable?
That's the gist of the patent - a branchable serial bus.
Always used to use Newegg (Score:1, Offtopic)
There simply was no comparison, Newegg was the best. For many, many years, Newegg was my one-stop computer shop. They ALWAYS had the best prices. Even better prices, in some cases, than buying direct from a channel partner like TechData or Ingram.
These days I almost always find better prices on Amazon for the same stuff. Couple that with Prime membership and zero hassle returns... I just can't justify buying from Newegg anymore.
Am I a bad human being?
Re: (Score:1)
I'm in the exact same boat.
I'll still check out the Shell Shockers, but most of those really aren't deals either compared to Amazon.
This isn't a first for Newegg. Also, great fakes (Score:5, Insightful)
>These days I almost always find better prices on Amazon for the same stuff.
Amazon has probably the largest proportion of counterfeit products of any retailer, due to the way their business works. Some of them are very good counterfeits; the fake Otter Box from Amazon I looked at the other day had a perfect look-alike box, with the hologram sticker, very hard to tell the difference between the fake and the real thing except the fake was a bit lower quality. The rubberized button covers weren't really rubberized, so it was very hard to press the button, etc.
On the other wide, Newegg has been a leader in fighting patent trolls for years. Is it worth an extra dollar or two to be confident of getting legitimate products, while supporting a company that's fighting patent trolls?
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Yeah MARKETPLACE is any random seller (Score:2)
Yeah, the Newegg Marketplace means you're not buying from Newgg, but from some random person who signed up to sell on their site - much like Amazon or eBay.
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If I want a certain model/version/edition I tend to go with ebay as it's more WYSIWYG than amazon. Amazon has a really high tendency to use stock photos.
Plus some of the listings have been screwed up for years! Check these two out http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ... [amazon.com] Buy nickel get brass
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-... [amazon.com] Buy brass get nickel
They have been like that since at least as far back as march 2014!
But the 2 day shipping and no rush credits are still great!
I haven't gotten anything from amazon or ebay th
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Re: This isn't a first for Newegg. Also, great fak (Score:2)
Well if quality isn't a factor in what you buy, then quality need not be a factor in the legal system.
I can understand wanting to save money, but you also need to understand the consequences of doing my so. Mind you, paying more doesn't always mean better quality, so buyer beware.
I may be about to buy 24 TB (Score:2)
Funny, when you said "fortunately, I'm not a hoarder and I'm not a huge fan of clutter. I'm always able to find some kind soul who's willing (often eager) to take my tech hand-me-downs", I was mentally raising my hand. Have you seen on Mythbusters the big shelves of tubs in Jaime's shop, all neatly labeled with labels like "rubber body parts" and "linear motors"? That's me.
Then as I began to think of a funny reply, you ended with "I, umm... I don't suppose you need some extra hard drives?" As a matter
yeah we'd hang out. Super Walmart organization (Score:2)
If you were in Texas, we'd probably enjoy hanging out. I haven't yet collected THAT much stuff, but I'm not retired yet. :) I HATE to buy something to replace I've bought before and lost or gotten rid of, or rent something multiple times, so I buy stuff and keep it.
As to organization, I looked to Super Walmart for inspiration. I try to more or less organize things the same way Walmart would. When a tub or shelf gets full, it's divided into two more specific tubs. Ie if I'm putting away dry-cell batter
In Texas we have that magic (Score:2)
> you'd never even dream of packing and moving yourself. Nope. Unless you can magically get all that stuff from one place to another? Yeah.... There's probably a law of physics to describe it.
In Texas, we call that mqgic force that moves thousands of pounds of stuff "Mexicans". You can find it at Home Depot.
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First off, yes, Amazon is not a responsible place from which to purchase.
Also, whenever I'm looking for components or whatnot I find that Newegg is comparable or better price that Amazon, and usually the standard shipping gets to me in about two days anyway.
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Good points, I hadn't really thought about it like that before. I appreciate your reply.
Re:Always used to use Newegg (Score:5, Interesting)
I've found that searching for components on NewEgg is much easier. It's almost impossible to search for anything on Amazon that's not totally mainstream. I just put together a PC for a media server, and I purchased everything from NewEgg. They were either cheaper or I could actually find the products quickly. I don't really want to read page "1 of 234" containing random products with no relation to what I searched for. Thanks amazon.
I hate all their "marketplace" sellers (although NewEgg is doing this crap, too.) Amazon is becoming crap of late. Reviews are useless in many cases, partly because they group tons of similar products into a single "product" (especially bad with movies.) I was searching last night for LotR on Blu-Ray and their descriptions don't even say what's on the extra discs. Useless. And marketplace sellers sell cheap knockoffs that mess up reviews of genuine products. I've ordered a product based the description only to get something else. The seller then says "oh some other seller changed the description." What's the point of having descriptions, then, if any idiot can change them?
NewEgg is still pretty decent to deal with and getting someone to help you is MUCH easier than with Amazon. Everyone I've done a chat with at amazon was totally clueless. One even re-ordered my order for no apparent reason, which I then had to return. Amazon is becoming the Mos Eisley of shopping anymore: a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Good luck trying to find decent coin batteries, Lion batteries, chargers, etc. They sell them, you'll just never find them.
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When I was working as a consultant for a small HP VAR, we would sometimes buy from Newegg even though we had access to the channel partners because their prices were significantly better.
But I take your point about Amazon search. That is one thing about selling everything... your search, no matter how good, has to wade through a lot more categories of items.
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1) It's impossible to guess what the things you want are, so I can't say what you can or can't find with ease.
2) They make it VERY obvious who you're buying from.
3) No, they don't.
4) "I will not pay for a subscription to get discounts." "I get that shit from Costco." -- WAT?
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I agree....
You have to spread your business around so that you have multiple vendors from which to chose. Because one day, that big vendor that gave you the good price will screw you and everyone else.
Just like Wal*Mart taught these town folks a lesson. This town let their local mom and pop grocery store go out of business in favor of shopping at Wal*Mart express. Now Wal*Mart is closing and leaving town leaving them with no food, or a food desert as it is called in the article.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wir [go.com]
Rosewill is part of Newegg? (Score:4, Insightful)
Cool. I bought some rosewill drive enclosures a few years ago that are still working great. Although I didn't know they were a store brand at the time.
I don't buy much of anything on new-egg anymore. The site layout is just so messed up now I can't find anything anymore. It was better before they started letting people post classified ads as products for sell.
If it shows up in the list of results I expect to be able to buy it on Newegg not click through to Bullshitbrandxcompany to complete my purchase there.
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It was better before they started letting people post classified ads as products for sell.
If it shows up in the list of results I expect to be able to buy it on Newegg not click through to Bullshitbrandxcompany to complete my purchase there.
This! I've shopped NewEgg for over a decade (bought this [newegg.com] for $90 in 2002, heh), but killing the usefulness of ShopRunner and then letting some really, really crappy sellers sell through their site has turned me off. I still look when I shop, but as often as not, I buy at Amazon. If NewEgg would allow me to have an account-level setting that made me never see the other sellers, I'd be a lot more loyal (the ShopRunner ship sailed, c'est la vie).
PC Part Picker helps. (Score:3)
Price Watch (Score:2)
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On all searches there is a choice for "New Egg Only".
It would appear (Score:3)
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who knew it was Newegg? They sued a probably unknown (to them) company only to find out they were really Newegg.
Their internal policy is probably "don't sue Newegg" and what a surprise when the phone rang and the caller ID displayed "Newegg legal department"
Re:It would appear (Score:4, Insightful)
failure to sufficiently research your target is a major failure in any attack.
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"Minero Digital awoke a sleeping giant" is completely correct.
If you're implying that the verb "awake" can't be used transitively, you're wrong. But don't take my word for it--check the dictionary for yourself.
compensation (Score:2)
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How about asking for $150 HR + court costs.
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How about asking for $150 HR + court costs.
You forgot a zero, maybe two, $150.00/hr might have worked in 1953.
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Newegg is the abuser? (Score:2)
In my experience, Rosewill products are of often poor. It is interesting to learn that Newegg management is responsible.
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"Rosewill" is just a name. The Mfr. name is hidden (Score:2)
I've had some good products from Newegg's "Rosewill" also. Most Rosewill-branded products that I've seen have had some design or manufacturing defects, often amazingly foolish defects.
Read the complaints on Newegg. Newegg should get more knowledgeable people to evaluate the products sold under the Rosewill name. At present "Rosewill" is damaging Newe
"....irresponsible for Newegg to not finish it..." (Score:1)
Finally, a lawyer I can understand! (Score:5, Funny)
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I was focused on the same thing and was going to write a post based on the same quote.
It's funny, you normally expect lawyers who are speaking publicly to use legalese jargon....
like attacking smoke (Score:3)
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And this would keep the court from ruling on *the validity of the patent* exactly how?
Good Egg, bad Egg (Score:1)
I'm glad for their policy against patent trolls, but I buy from them as little as possible.
Reason? Not prices, not selection, but return policy. Even if you receive a defective item, you have to pay return shipping.
Newegg's excuse? "It's not our fault if the product's defective." Honest, look it up on their site, that's their published excuse.
Well, if I get a defective product from Newegg, it's not my fault either. They can go suck Eggs.
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"It's not our fault if the product's defective."
Really? Damn, things have changed.
We ordered a rackmount LCD console from them back in '04 (about $1000 or so). The vendor shipped the wrong gender cable with it. Called NewEgg. They didn't give me the "It's not our fault" line. Instead, they shipped the correct cable at their expense. Arrived two days later.
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Their restocking policy still pisses me off, but yeah, they're a better bunch than the vile disgusting subhumans who try to extort money via a flawed IP system.
Re: Geeks rejoice (using your dollars) (Score:4, Interesting)
heh, I was going to post the same reply. They charged me about $250 to return an unopened switch (after I paid shipping) for a project where I had bought one too many. Sorry, that's food from the babies' mouths for a small business when Amazon does free returns.
It's a bet on all the subs coming in on spec. vs. ordering too little or too much. Better to not have to worry about such things, and arbitrary fees means worrying.
I do admire NewEgg's "never start a fight but always finish one" legal approach though. At least my restocking fees are going to good attorneys.
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