Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Communications Government Privacy

FBI: Burning Man Testing Ground For Free Speech, Drugs ... and New Spy Gear 189

Posted by timothy from the post-black-hat-vacation dept.
v3rgEz writes: The 29th annual Burning Man festival kicks off this week in Nevada's Black Rock Desert. Among those paying close attention to the festivities will be the FBI's Special Events Management unit, who have kept files on "burners" since at least 2010. One of the more interesting things in those, files, however, is a lengthy, heavily redacted paragraph detailing that the FBI's Special Events Management Unit gave Las Vegas Police Department some specialized equipment for monitoring the week-long event, as long as LVPD provided follow up reports.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

FBI: Burning Man Testing Ground For Free Speech, Drugs ... and New Spy Gear More

FBI: Burning Man Testing Ground For Free Speech, Drugs ... and New Spy Gear

Comments Filter:

  • I'll bet a lot of people love the fact that all this "free speech" will be taking place hundreds of miles out in the desert, where it's completely disconnected from most of the electorate. Kind of a self-imposed "free speech zone" like the kind we'll enjoy seeing miles from the upcoming (D) and (R) national conventions.

    • Re:Free speech hundreds of miles out in the desert (Score:5, Interesting)

      by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:16AM (#50436319) Homepage Journal

      I think it is funny that anyone is shocked at the fact a "gathering" that involves drug use and pyrotechnics is being watched. The fact that they have never came in and raided the event shows that the FBI really is not going in for busting up free speech.

      • I think it is funny that anyone is shocked at the fact a "gathering" that involves drug use and pyrotechnics is being watched.

        So you're saying that all 4th of July celebrations are routinely monitored?

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Which 4th of July celebrations are you aware of that blatantly advertise their acceptance of illicit drugs? And no, alcohol doesn't count as illicit no matter how much you guys like to compare it to your drug(s) of choice.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Whoah there, coach just called and he wants you to move the goal posts back to the N zone where you found them.

            The claim was that 4th of July involves drugs and pyrotechnics. Nobody said boo about illicit. Alcohol is a drug, doesn't matter if you don't like that fact, but it is.

            • Whoah there, coach just called and he wants you to move the goal posts back to the N zone where you found them.

              The claim was that 4th of July involves drugs and pyrotechnics. Nobody said boo about illicit. Alcohol is a drug, doesn't matter if you don't like that fact, but it is.

              You can play with words and say that aspirin is a drug and so pharmacists are drug dealers, it doesn't alter the everyday meaning of the words.

          • Which 4th of July celebrations are you aware of that blatantly advertise their acceptance of illicit drugs?

            My backyard barbecue?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by plopez ( 54068 )

          I do no think I know of a 4th of July celebration without law enforcement present. The larger the gathering the more cops and at a certain point the use of secret police and electronic intelligence. I haven't been to one but I bet that the 4th of July events in HY, LA, Boston, and other major cities are closely watched. ANd in some of the ones I have been to illegal drug use was tolerated if it was low level.

        • Actually, yes, they are. Cops routinely patrol heavily on the 4th of July, looking for people setting off fireworks in their backyard. They're crawling all over my neighbor every year. And at that, that's a lot more ground to cover than a single event that also touts the use of a lot more than just beer or the odd shot of JD. People on acid shooting off fireworks without a license, and burning stuff ... like nothing could go wrong? The people who run the event are probably not so much an issue, but the

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by LWATCDR ( 28044 )

          Yes. I have not been to a public fireworks display without police being there.
          Of course it is really silly to compare Burning man with a 4th of July event. I have never been to a 4th of July event were the use of illegal drugs is very public and well known.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        People still of the cat and mouse mindset are hopelessly lost. The FBI 'owns' this event and allows it to proceed as a petri dish and case study for learning how to deal with future criminal activities and subversive movements. 'Busting it' serves no purpose as it will spring up elsewhere or in smaller, less cohesive, and less easily targeted forms. Things like COINTELPRO which occurred decades ago lend credibility to this idea. We live in a giant disneyland now. The surveillance state is upon us. Do not be

      • They are being absurd. It's hard to see anybody at burning man using phones or internet devices for drug purchases and sales. You have 70,000 people in a signal-free desert, with the occasional wifi point. People are walking around in bright colors and costumes and interacting in real life.

        Nevada treats the drug use that is there as a chance to extort recreational drug users from out-of-state. Basically (for most drug offenses) they catch a lot of nonviolent out-of-state offenders and offer the choice b

    • Re:Free speech hundreds of miles out in the desert (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:22PM (#50438329) Homepage Journal

      I'll bet a lot of people love the fact that all this "free speech" will be taking place hundreds of miles out in the desert...

      You don't know people very well then. As Lord Macaulay observed in his The History of England from the Accession of James the Second,

      “The Puritans hated bear-baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators.”

      You see it is not enough for prigs and busybodies that they're not involved in any way in the things you do that give you pleasure; their problem is with you enjoying something they don't enjoy, or perhaps understand.

  • I really just don't get it. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Has free-thinkers and weirdos ever caused an actual revolution? Changed the course of government that they were able to rid it of corruption and incompetence?

    So why put all this effort in monitoring them?

    It can't make them feel better. It seems to only make those in authority more paranoid than before. It makes them jump at their own shadow to think that someone, somewhere that might be different from them is plotting against some abstract institution.

    Why exercise this kind of authority over people that are

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "Why exercise this kind of authority over people that aren't doing anything disruptive of their lives?"

      Because, fear.

    • Re:I really just don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:22AM (#50436385)

      >> Has free-thinkers and weirdos ever caused an actual revolution? Changed the course of government that they were able to rid it of corruption and incompetence?

      In 1776, yes.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by plopez ( 54068 )

        Both the Romans and the Athenians abolished their kings. Though in the Roman case it came back after a drawn out period of civil war.

      • Don't forget the French Revolution shortly after. They got rid of the corruption too: everyone in power had their head lopped off.

      • Arguably in 1868 Japan, too

    • Has free-thinkers and weirdos ever caused an actual revolution? Changed the course of government that they were able to rid it of corruption and incompetence?

      I think it happened in the 1770s in some English colonies, but I'm not a history buff, so I may have it wrong.

  • Is this even legal? (Score:3)

    by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:21AM (#50436377) Homepage

    So have we come full circle where the FBI just keeps files on everybody?

    This sounds awfully creepy, and smacks of an organization obsessed with tracking everybody they can.

    • America is quickly resembling East Germany.

      • No, more like China.
        We have our Konsumer based economy with our toys, phones and fast food.
        And we will be allowed to continue having access to those as long as we don't rock the boat...

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tnk1 ( 899206 )

        To resemble East Germany, you don't simply need surveillance, you need a huge number of informants (something like 2-3% of the whole population) placed everywhere who are paid and willing to rat you out to the state.

        The US isn't going to be approaching that ratio of informants to citizens any time soon, and until then, the US will not approach East Germany in the manner you suggest.

        The US government can run wiretaps, and drones and directional mics all it wants, but we're not talking about even close to the

        • Re:Is this even legal? (Score:4, Informative)

          by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @03:11PM (#50438675)

          With blanket-surveillance of the Internet, informants have lost their critical role.

        • you need a huge number of informants (something like 2-3% of the whole population) placed everywhere who are paid and willing to rat you out to the state.

          They don't need informants, they have automated surveillance now. They didn't have the internet, cellphones, NSAKEY backdoors, Stingray interceptors, etc. back in the 40s-70s. Having a typewriter in East Germany was a big deal.

          Someone having some data on what might be you isn't the same thing as a guy in your workplace who knows you and who knows when it

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by plopez ( 54068 )

      They done it since they were founded.

    • You think they don't have one on you?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Very likely. And "creepy" is not the right word. Having files on everybody and laws that allow you to get everybody (and the US certainly has both) is necessary to establish and firm up a police-state and eventually full fascism.

      As the average US citizen just does not seem to care, I guess it is time for the US to get its own hands-on taste of national fascism. Unfortunately, the rest of the world will not be able to bust them out, so it will be of the slow-decline form that takes a century or so to total e

  • So, what, I guess this is stingrays on drones overhead? Collect IMEI numbers of every person there, drop them in their little database of "umamerican agitators"?

    I mean, that's always what it is, right?

    "Drugs" is that magical code word for "the dangerous evil of non-conformity of decent hard-working American values, like having no problem with g-men goons watching every move you make? Fuck the FBI and its gang of morally-bankrupt thugs.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by cleara ( 4074899 )
      May I ask that you please leave your phone locked up at home before you leave for the event? I personally find that this saves from a lot of grief. Being monitoried is only one of them.

      The biggest for me is losing my darn phone. About 50 percent of the time I take my phone from home, I either lose it or nearly lose it.

      And I 'HATE' having my phone ring when I am on my bicycle or in the bus. Let the darn thing ring at home and then take the message.

      Yes. I am old fashioned. 62 Years old, but enjoying it!

  • Should get a "Burner" phone (Score:4, Insightful)

    by clifwlkr ( 614327 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:40AM (#50436577)
    Sounds like if you are going to burning man, you need a burner phone for the event. I am guessing they are setting up a Stingray device and capturing communications at the event. Simple paid for cash burner phone, and you defeat a lot of that. Or better yet, just don't turn your phone on and avoid the whole mess.

    • Re:Should get a "Burner" phone (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kozar_The_Malignant ( 738483 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:58AM (#50436793)

      >Or better yet, just don't turn your phone on and avoid the whole mess.

      If you're at Burning Man, but need your phone to stay in touch with the office or whatever, you've already missed the point of Burning Man.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JazzLad ( 935151 )
      Or even better, borrow Bob's* phone for the weekend.

      *You know Bob, that jerk in marketing - and when I say borrow, I mean lift it when he's not looking & replace it with a phone that looks the same but doesn't work - on Monday you can swap it back if he hasn't replaced it already. Bonus points if you rent a room in his name/address & leave something embarrassing behind. Stupid Bob ...
    • Turning phones off doesn't help much when according to Snowden they can bug it even then. Good luck removing the battery on recent ones.
      • I really, really doubt if the phone is truly 'off' they can bug it. There is no power draw going on. Either that, or let the battery die.... Put it in a tinfoil pouch if you are really that afraid of it. If it was on and they could access it, the phone would die pretty quick as the draw for it to transmit information would be strong. I have not seen this when I turn my phone truly off (not just standby). I usually take my phone camping in case I break down on the way there and need assistance. I turn

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tnk1 ( 899206 )

          They can probably still track the phone if the battery is in. There may even be a way for them to turn it on remotely to listen to you, but its unclear if that ability really exists or if it is quite what people believe it to be. I can totally believe that they could certainly track you while it is "off", but turning on your phone to listen to you seems like something that doesn't come built in, they probably need to get special software on the phone to do that.

          Of course, the question is, "what does the O

      • this is real.

    • Someone should make them look like the losers that they are. Didn't get invited to any of the cool parties eh?
      They're just the sniveling little snot nosed bastards who used to rat out the class when the teacher left the room.
      Someone should build a medical die (like the die packs used for bank robbers) trap and use their monitoring of private communications to lure them in and die them purple for a few weeks. YouTube stream it live for extra yuks.

    • Let's call it "Burning Phone" !

      At the end of the event, everyone piles up their disposable cell phones and sets the lot afire! :D

  • good touch, bad touch, irrelevant touch (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    From the article linked in the summary:

    In addition to the FBI files, requests were made for arrest reports and fines. Either surprisingly or unsurprisingly, there's not a lot in them - but if you were wondering just what it is you'd have to do to get arrested at Burning Man, the answer is physically assaulting a police officer.

    While I have no problem believing that some paranoid drugged-up neo-hippie might conceivably attack an FBI agent, I also have no problem believing that a dipshit FBI agent would choose to interpret a touch on the arm from a overaffectionate drugged-up neo-hippie as "assault". If there hasn't been a riot, murder spree, or terrorist attack in previous years, the FBI has no legitimate excuse to be involved. Let local law enforcement handle it, unless and until they feel

  • Since the Late Sixties... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kozar_The_Malignant ( 738483 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:54AM (#50436757)
    Any counterculture gathering that doesn't attract FBI watchers just isn't trying hard enough. I used to think it was insidious. Now, I think the feds just want a cushy week or two watching the scantily clad.

    • Any counterculture gathering that doesn't attract FBI watchers just isn't trying hard enough. I used to think it was insidious. Now, I think the feds just want a cushy week or two watching the scantily clad.

      ...and that the guys from the Reno office always wanted to have a MDMA fueled spooning session in their custom turn-key camp at BM.

    • Likely, cause burning man was about being a independent, self run city.

      But when a self run city still needs to enforce drone regs [burningman.org] via FAA guidelines... I think burning man has jumped the shark on the independent city idea.

      Really, there's pyro, drugs, guns, illegal activities there, BUT drones there are still regulated based on FAA and perceived privacy needs. Oh the irony.

      • Yes, the day of the city-state is come and gone. There's still a couple of examples or so, Monaco and somewhere else, but that's about it.

  • I would expect pot use to be pretty open, but perhaps officially frowned upon by organizers owing to its illegal status in Nevada and Federally.

    • Apparently it's a cash cow for cops [snowbrains.com], giving out citations for drugs and anything else. Quote:

      REMEMBER, BURNING MAN IS THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE TO DO OR SHARE DRUGS IN THE USA.

      They also have under-aged plants, looking for people giving alcohol to kids.

  • something seems fishy to me. 540 miles away, almost 10 hour drive. Why is LVPD getting spy gear for this event?

  • It was episode 10, airing in September 2003. Oh, and I hope the FBI can find burning man, unlike Lt. Dangle and his crew.

  • FBI must have been watching too much CSI of late. Black Rock Desert is about 500 miles outside LVPD's jurisdiction (and 140 miles outside Reno, for you Reno 911 fans). Plus, it's Federal land, overseen by the BLM. The FBI would actually have more jurisdiction there than LVPD ever would.

  • I am curious how the heck LVPD is involved. Reno is 450 miles from Vegas and Black rock is an additional 125 miles north.
    By comparison Albany, NT is 150 miles from NYC. The distance from Cleveland OK to Ny, NY at ~450 miles is about the same.
    Salt lake City is alto about the same 450 miles away and the reach of the FBI and IRS from SLC to Nevada is legendary.

    One potential connection is cell phone tracking Friends report that BM has cell coverage for the first time in their memory of the event.
    It is possibl

Slashdot Top Deals

"Experience has proved that some people indeed know everything." -- Russell Baker

Close