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Canada Government

The Great Canadian Copyright Giveaway: Copyright Extension For Sound Recordings 309

An anonymous reader writes: Despite no study, no public demands, and the potential cost to the public of millions of dollars, the Canadian government announced yesterday that it will extend the term of copyright for sound recordings and performances from 50 to 70 years. The music industry did not raise term extension as a key concern during either the 2012 copyright reform bill or the 2014 Canadian Heritage committee study on the industry. For Canadians, the extension could cost millions of dollars as works that were scheduled to come into the public domain will now remain locked down for decades.
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The Great Canadian Copyright Giveaway: Copyright Extension For Sound Recordings

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  • by Catamaran ( 106796 ) * on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:05AM (#49527987)
    50 years is already way too long. They should reduce it to 3-5 years. That would give the artist plenty of time to make a profit. Unfortunately, copyright as it is now implemented and enforced is entirely for the benefit of large corporate interests. It stifles creativity rather than promoting it.
    • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:20AM (#49528119) Homepage
      5 years is fine - with copyright extension for sequels. That is, if you have a sequel within 5 years, then your original copyright can be extended for another 3 years,

      This encourages actually giving the people what they want sooner rather than later.

      The thing is that most art can be divided into 3 categories - a) crap that no one would copy even without copyrights, b) pretty good work that need copyright protection for 5 years, but no one would copy after that anyway and c) mega-hits that earn so much money in the first 5 years that the original creators might quit and never do anything again unless we found a way to encourage them to create again - hence the copyright extension ONLY if they make a sequel.

      • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @12:13PM (#49528639)

        The thing is that most art can be divided into 3 categories - a) crap that no one would copy even without copyrights, b) pretty good work that need copyright protection for 5 years, but no one would copy after that anyway and c) mega-hits that earn so much money in the first 5 years that the original creators might quit and never do anything again unless we found a way to encourage them to create again - hence the copyright extension ONLY if they make a sequel.

        What about d) moderate successes that build a slower success.

        The release dates for the last 5 albums I bought were 1993, 1994, 2012, 2013, and 2014. The 1994 purchase was from a band with moderate success but nowhere near a mega-hit. I think there's a lot of groups like that, essentially middle class musicians who do need the income from from older releases (though I can't find any numbers to suggest how significant or insignificant that income might be).

      • 5 years is fine - with copyright extension for sequels. That is, if you have a sequel within 5 years, then your original copyright can be extended for another 3 years,

        This encourages actually giving the people what they want sooner rather than later.

        The thing is that most art can be divided into 3 categories - a) crap that no one would copy even without copyrights, b) pretty good work that need copyright protection for 5 years, but no one would copy after that anyway and c) mega-hits that earn so much money in the first 5 years that the original creators might quit and never do anything again unless we found a way to encourage them to create again - hence the copyright extension ONLY if they make a sequel.

        George Martin released A Feast for Crows in 2005, but didn't release A Dance with Dragons until 2011, so Game of Thrones is public domain under your suggestion and HBO need not pay him royalties?

    • by Mrs. Grundy ( 680212 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:26AM (#49528183) Homepage

      The article makes is sound like this is a totally senseless, random act with no explanation, but that's a little misleading. While it's easy to argue that 50 years is already too long, Canada's 50 year term is also an outlier on the low end in the international community. Most other countries have a 70 year copyright term for recorded music, including the UK, France, Germany, Italy, etc. The US allows for 95 years. Having copyright terms that uniform across international boarders is useful.

      • by ebyrob ( 165903 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:36AM (#49528277)

        > Having copyright terms that uniform across international boarders is useful.

        Useful as an excuse to ping-pong term extensions across the Atlantic. Terms are extending 20 years every 20 years, hardly "limited times" let alone "promoting progress".

        • Exactly this. Soon, everyone will slowly move to the "US Standard" of 95 years except for one country who will go with 110 years. Then we'll need to move to that to harmonize our copyright terms... except for that one country that enacted 130 years. Infinity Minus One copyright terms, here we come!

      • One way to be consistent is for Canada to increase the length of their copyright terms to match everyone else's.
        Another way to be consistent is for everyone else to decrease the length of their copyright terms to match Canada's.

        • Another way to be consistent is for everyone else to decrease the length of their copyright terms to match Canada's.

          Copyright owners would argue that shortening the term of a subsisting copyright is an unlawful "taking" of their property. One country's constitution states: "Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." Other countries likely have similar provisions on the books. So the government would have to tax its citizens to pay fair market value of the copyright in each affected work.

      • The UK has a fifty-year term now. We extended ours just last year to seventy years, in order to match a European standardisation directive. The EU governmnent wants to get a unified term in all member states, and as a reduction in term anywhere would lead to very well-funded opposition, that means we all go up to match the longest term. Seventy years.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      Remember that copyright also include include free software.
      And 5 year or less copyright would be a huge blow to the FOSS community as it would make all 5 year old GPL software including linux into the public domain.
      As a result we'll see plenty of software based on outdated GPL software just so that it can be made proprietary. Hardly a good thing.

    • 50 years is already way too long. They should reduce it to 3-5 years. That would give the artist plenty of time to make a profit. Unfortunately, copyright as it is now implemented and enforced is entirely for the benefit of large corporate interests. It stifles creativity rather than promoting it.

      This sounds like a horrible thing for smaller artists or labels. The only way to make record sales income under that term is to have a major promoter backing you. Good records that slowly build an audience? Not viable.

      I actually think 50 years is appropriate, for a lifelong artist the stuff from the start of their career starts going public domain at the end of their career. If parts of their catalogue go public domain while they're still active then things start getting weird because the status is changing

  • by halivar ( 535827 ) <bfelger@gmai l . c om> on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:14AM (#49528073)

    We're all really American, after all.

    • The MIAA mafia has no borders. This is just an example of using their political influence to get another nation's laws in conformance with their agenda.

  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:17AM (#49528087)
    The content industry controls the government, so the government will do whatever the content industry tells it to do. There may not have been any public demands by the content industry, but you can be pretty sure that there were backroom deals....
    • There may not have been any public demands by the content industry

      That's because the demands were copyrighted and not in the public domain!

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Funnily a documentary made by a Canadian a few years ago talks all about this and how copyright in it's current state is a pile of BS https://vimeo.com/8040182

  • by Rashkae ( 59673 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:19AM (#49528105) Homepage

    Whether or not a longer copyright term will help promote the arts are encouraging more investment in art production is debatable. I have a strong oppinion, but so do many others with the opposite.

    However, there is no theory whatesoever that retroactively extending copyright terms does anything to promote the creation of new art/culture (recall, the whole point of government granted copyright monopoly in the first place.) In fact, there is strong evidence that works still under long copyright are supressed until they become public domain.

    I think we can conclude that any politicians singing on to retroactively extend copyright terms are clearly corrupt.

    • I think we can conclude that any politicians singing on to retroactively extend copyright terms are clearly corrupt.

      Its to protect a secret cache of Gordon Lightfoot recordings. Worth untold sums of money.

    • In fact, there is strong evidence that works still under long copyright are supressed until they become public domain.

      More importantly, it suppresses derivative works until the underlying original falls into the public domain.

      If I were to create a fictional story, it's very likely that the things I have read in my life will subconsciously influence what I write.

      To protect myself legally, I have two things that can protect me:
      1) Don't publish my work until after all works that exist today are out of copyright, or
      2) Base my work on something that is in the public domain (Shakespeare and ancient myths are common sources for w

  • Right when Baby Sittin' Boogie was about to go public domain!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:20AM (#49528121)

    Sounds like a precursor to the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

  • Hardly Surprising (Score:4, Informative)

    by AttillaTheNun ( 618721 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:30AM (#49528215)

    the Canadian governments are puppets to their corporate overlords and have historically supported incumbent monopolies over competition and innovation.

  • by TheTrueScotsman ( 1191887 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:42AM (#49528341)

    There's a lot of bad feeling on this thread about the extension of copyright, but there are a lot of positives. For example:

    - Copyright income lets bands keep on making great music. It's likely that with a short copyright term, U2 wouldn't have made an album after 1990.

    - The income allows artist to perform great philanthropic and charitable deeds. Let's face it: the United Nations as it is today is almost completely down to Bono.

    - Artists support great works in other fields. E.g. would the Ferrari LaFerrari exist without buyers who relied on copyright income? I think not and that would be a tragedy.

    This is a modest extension and a good thing for everybody.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      U2 didn't make anything 50 years ago, their 1990 work wouldn't hit public domain until 2040 in Canada. They'll be dead by then, or as good as, but now this change pushes that back to 2060. Do you not even thing before you speak?

      Rather than extending copyright, perhaps these people should investigate tax dodgers like Bono, and close the loopholes that allow them to avoid paying like everyone else?

    • Man, it really took me some time to get that it's all meant ironically... K+ man, K+ !
    • You joke, but a shorter copyright would actually encourage U2 to keep making music forever!

      So, in spite of long copyright terms, U2 kept making music. These long terms didn't even solve the one problem that could have benefited consumers.

  • Public domain? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jmv ( 93421 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:56AM (#49528469) Homepage

    Does anyone know if *any* work has become public domain in the last few years in US and Canada? From what I see it just sounds like anything that's was copyrighted will now forever be copyrighted as copyright gets extended by X years every X years (with X=20 here).

    • Re:Public domain? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @02:47PM (#49530211)

      Does anyone know if *any* work has become public domain in the last few years in US and Canada? From what I see it just sounds like anything that's was copyrighted will now forever be copyrighted as copyright gets extended by X years every X years (with X=20 here).

      In the USA, the answer is "no". Unfortunately, some years ago the classical music label Naxos got greedy and put out a CD in the USA of a 1930s classical work, specifically Pablo Casal's recordings of the complete Bach cello suites. In Europe this recording had clearly entered the public domain, but not in the USA. In fact, there was no question that it was still under US copyright at the time Naxos put it out. Not only was it under copyright, but the US copyright owner (Capitol Records) had their own copy in print and sued Naxos for copyright violation. It was really idiotic for Naxos to try to get away this in the US market and they lost the case. But a worst case scenario happened in the case. The court that heard it (in my opinion) basically made up the law and came to the conclusion that every recording every made or sold in the USA, even as far back as Edison's first attempts in the late 1800s, was still under copyright in the USA because they basically claimed that "common law copyright" protected them until the US law covered them. Naxos couldn't really appeal this because they had no way to argue that what they did was legal, so this horrible court decision that all US sound recordings are still under copyright became US law. Short of convincing Congress to pass a law on the subject, we're basically screwed now as there's nothing ever recorded or sold in the USA that is in the public domain at this time. Do note that this crazy legal finding doesn't apply to books, movies or anything else.

  • But somebody must have paid secretly. At one point in time this was called bribery and people doing this and got caught were put in jail. Nowadays it seems to be the law of the land... Oh no, the law of the chosen few - chosen by god or something like that.

    • But somebody must have paid secretly. At one point in time this was called bribery and people doing this and got caught were put in jail. Nowadays it seems to be the law of the land... Oh no, the law of the chosen few - chosen by god or something like that.

      Nobody Canadian did. The US has been demanding it publically for a long time.

  • why hot just make it infinite and automatic transfer to the artists offspring. Really with 70 who cares might as well be infinity,

  • If I'm young and I write something today and I die 80 years later, the copyright term will outlast everyone alive today and is therefore longer than any reasonable definition of "for a limited period of time."

    When the time comes I hope someone sues to declare all works in the public domain as soon as there is nobody left alive who was around when that work fell under copyright.

    Unfortunately nobody can make this challenge until the 2030s at the earliest, since everything put under copyright before 1923 is al

  • Society (Score:4, Interesting)

    by KaOSoFt ( 2759721 ) on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @12:48PM (#49528997)
    First post ever here. I’m curious: shouldn’t these kind of terms (or whatever it’s called) apply for net new creations? I don’t understand why they apply to things already copyrighted. New terms should apply only to new creations. Does it change for different countries? I think the amount of years really depends on how much we want 1) to share with people and 2) for how long do we really expect to earn money out of it. I would prefer to simply share, but in the likelihood that I want to share and make some money out of it, I would say 20 years is more than enough. Of course some material would still make money even after 50 years (we still listen to The Beattles, don’t we?), even 70 years (Mozart, Bach, etc.), but I think it’s mostly how we want to give back to society. My opinion is governments should thrive to make people want to give something back to humanity. I don’t like imposing too much, because to be honest, the day I don’t want to share, I don’t and those are my terms, but for 70 years? Come on!
  • While I don't personally agree with this, I get that businesses and musicians and such want copyright to last for a really really long time. There's a way to meet their desires and satisfy the public's desire for things to actually enter the public domain. If these copyrights are so valuable that 50 years is simply too short, then rather than give extensions away for free, make the copyright holder fill out a form, just like they used to have to do, and pay big money for an extension. Offer 20 year exten

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