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Australia Censorship Government Build Technology

3D Printed Guns Might Lead To Law Changes In Australia 245

Posted by samzenpus from the print-and-shoot dept.
angry tapir writes An inquiry by an Australian Senate committee has recommended the introduction of uniform laws across jurisdictions in the country "regulating the manufacture of 3D printed firearms and firearm parts." Although current laws are in general believed to cover 3D printed guns, there are concerns there may be inconsistencies across different Australian jurisdictions. Although there aren't any high-profile cases of 3D printed weapons being used in crimes in the country, earlier this year a raid in Queensland recovered 3D printed firearm parts.
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3D Printed Guns Might Lead To Law Changes In Australia More

3D Printed Guns Might Lead To Law Changes In Australia

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  • taxation? prohibition? choose the last one and the state makes no money.

    • Making money isn't the motivator for the state and thus that is completely irrelevant.

      Australia has no 2nd amendment equivalent and no history of a need to violently overthrow its own government (they used their words so to speak, and will again if the bulk of the people ever decide to go the way of a republic) and thus far less opposition to prohibition of firearms - with a bunch of exemptions.

  • 3D printed guns are no different to any other gun (Score:4, Informative)

    by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Friday April 10, 2015 @06:14AM (#49444941)

    3D printed gins are no different to any other home-made gun.

    It doesn't matter if its 3D printed, machined with a lathe, hand-forged by a blacksmith or made on a production line, its still a gun and is still just as illegal or legal as any other gun (depending on what sort of gun it is and what jurisdiction you are in)

    • It's not about the gun itself, but about gun proliferation in countries that have strict gun control laws. The general public has no access to guns produced by legit companies on a production line. Lathing, machining and gunsmithing take skill that few people possess. However, if and when access to 3D printers becomes commonplace, and if a viable 3D printable gun is designed, then anyone will be able to hit "print", do a little finishing and some assembly, and have a gun. This will make having an illega

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

        This will make having an illegal firearm well within reach of the majority of the population (of course you'll still have to get some ammo for it).

        There are some pretty nice black powder revolvers out there. You could print one of those. Say, a nice .50 caliber Morgan. Historical and massive!

        Prohibition never works. Only making a better society does.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jythie ( 914043 )
          Depends on what you consider 'works'. For instance, we have a prohibition on murder in the US. It does not make murder go away, it does not 100% stop it, but it does shift the risk/reward in a way that significantly reduces it. 'Gun prohibition' does not need to remove every gun from circulation, it only needs to make them uncommon and hidden, maybe even drive up the black market prices up enough that common criminals do not have them and 'crimes of passion' occurrences drop, not to mention the reductio
          • The problem with that idea is that it assumes that firearms are something that are uncommon or rare in the first place. Firearms are incredibly easy for anyone to produce with or without a 3D printer. A used drill press, lathe, or CNC costs the same as a good 3D printer. The scary black rifles like the AR-15 and AK-47s can partly be made with nothing more than a jig and a Dremel or a drill press.

            But you are right in that it may be a good idea depending on the country. Australia doesn't have a multi billion

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by jonwil ( 467024 )

              How do you make the rifled barrels for your AR-15s and AK-47s?
              In the US you may be able to easily buy one but in Australia getting a barrel seems to be just as hard as getting a full gun (at least from my understanding)

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by jythie ( 914043 )
              *nod* which is why I suspect such a ban would not work in the US (culture + penetration), but might make sense in other countries that have other backgrounds and situations. My general point was not to say gun prohibition is always a good idea, but that prohibition can work or not depending on the situation and thus such rules need to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dave420 ( 699308 )
          You can ban something and work on removing the desire for the banned thing at the same time, which is what Australia has been doing since their gun control laws were enacted. It appears to be working exceptionally well.
      • 3D printed guns are a long way off from being able to click print and create a functioning, useful firearm. It's much easier to create a makeshift firearm using more traditional tools. 3D printing isn't as easy as people make it seem. Most people 3D printing firearms will probably do it just for fun, and probably aren't looking to hurt anyone. They probably have a better chance of hurting themselves when it blows up after 10 shots. If they want to use it to hurt someone else, there are much easier ways of o

    • After all what is a gun? I mean it may seem intuitive but I mean really think about how you write a formal definition that includes everything you want to regulate but isn't overreaching and hits things you don't. It's not the easiest thing in the world.

      So, maybe the law needs to be changed to deal with a new development. Would hardly be the first time. Sounds like that's what they are evaluating.

    • You're being disingenuous. Much of the control of private firearms involves the _sale_ or transport of the weapons. Few home workshops, and few home gun smiths, can make a reliable extended magazine or rile action from scratch, they'd require extensive training in precision machining. But now people like Cody Wilson are publishing designs to make exactly such mechanisms for AR-15 equivalent assault rifles ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] )

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

        Few home workshops, and few home gun smiths, can make a reliable extended magazine or rile action from scratch, they'd require extensive training in precision machining. But now people like Cody Wilson are publishing designs to make exactly such mechanisms for AR-15 equivalent assault rifles

        You can mail order 80% finished lower receivers for AR-15s. To finish them is not very difficult, little more than "punch holes here" and "shave off this much metal here". This is the "firearm" portion of the gun. The rest of the gun (trigger mechanism, upper receiver, furniture) are all legally mail order as well with no background check.

    • Re:3D printed guns are no different to any other g (Score:4, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) * on Friday April 10, 2015 @07:58AM (#49445273) Homepage Journal

      True, the difference is not in the gun itself, but in the means of production. A 3D printer requires little skill to operate (or soon will), lowering the bar to making a gun for most people. People making home made guns with a CNC machine or even by hand has not proven to be a big problem in most countries. It isn't clear yet if 3D printed guns will be a problem or not, but it seems like law makers want to get in ahead of time.

      Plus it means they can throw some extra charges at anyone they arrest who happens to own a 3D printer. Law enforcement is always looking for new ways to apply some additional stress on people it questions, even if most of the charges are eventually dropped as completely baseless.

    • Except that very few people have the skills to hand-forge such a part, or access to the heavy-duty equipment to set up a production line for it. 3D printing is vastly more available.

      • The 'forge' is where the metal stock you make into a part is made. Any non-toy CNC machine can cut mild steel. Heat treatment shops, just heat treat, they don't care what the part is (unless it's particularly cool/sick).

  • law is fluid, it changes as it's required and a gun is a gun.

  • But milling weapons is ok? Like, the normal traditional way of making rifles that's been in used for some hundred years?

    3d printing seems a bit ineffficient compared to a CNC mill.

    • Who said that? The argument seems to be whether laws need to be expanded to cover 3D printing as well as milling, or whether the existing laws regarding manufacture are adequate.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by itzly ( 3699663 )

      But milling weapons is ok?

      No, but there are not enough home milled weapons around to pay attention to the issue.

      • 3D printers may be getting all the press, but the truth is that mills, CNC machines and many other kinds of manufacturing and prototyping matching are becoming very accessible to the public. A friend of mine recently bought a metal lathe. These things aren't expensive anymore, and can be obtained quite easily. There aren't that many home milled guns, but there also aren't that many 3D printed guns either. The press is simply reporting on it a lot making it seem like it's a bigger problem than it is.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by itzly ( 3699663 )

          Even if a lathe is affordable, it's still not very widespread. And there's more skill involved in using it, plus you need the right materials, design and tools to make a useful gun.

          With a 3D printer, any moron can download a design, and hit the big print button.

          • With a 3D printer, any moron can download a design, and hit the big print button.

            Yes, and any moron can blow off his hand the first time he goes to use it. 3D printers are not that easy to use. There are many variables that can affect the quality of the print. Even small variations in room temperature can make a difference in the quality of the print. When you're printing 3D trinkets or a case for a Raspberry Pi, this probably doesn't matter too much. But when you're printing something like a firearm th

          • Even if a lathe is affordable, it's still not very widespread. And there's more skill involved in using it, plus you need the right materials, design and tools to make a useful gun.

            With a 3D printer, any moron can download a design, and hit the big print button.

            However, they are more widespread than 3D printers, and the designs out there for tools are a lot more useful than anything for a 3D printer. Better to say that any moron will, eventually, might be able to download a design and hit the big print button when the state of the art on 3D printers and designs will allow. Currently, they can do the same thing for cheaper and come up with a better result using CNC machines with just as much skill and training as it would take to use a 3D printer.

      • There aren't enough 3D printed weapons to pay any attention to the issue either.

        This is more of Australia's moral panic/kneejerk policymaking in action.

  • the new fear: affordable automation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Friday April 10, 2015 @06:37AM (#49444995)

    governments/TPTB are becoming increasingly concerned that the average citizen could get pissed off and instead of being powerless (as they have been for centuries), they may actually be capable of doing something. In this case it's criminals getting guns with nefarious intent but honestly, this is the tip of the iceberg. We are nearing the tipping point between the people being dependant on governments and companies for things like food and electricity and being self-sufficient. The prospect of "we don't need you anymore" should scare them too because it's when the current social organizational system will start breaking down. It might take a few decades but thanks to affordable automation and openly shared progress, people will start dropping off the grid in droves, not because they can but because it's easy.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by itzly ( 3699663 )

      Why would you think that's a problem for the government ?

      • who would work for the government if they didn't have to work at all?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by itzly ( 3699663 )

          If nobody needs the government, the government doesn't need people working for them, so the problem solves itself. Of course, we're nowhere near the point that we can 3D print our own stuff. We can't even 3D print a functional lego brick, let alone a working cell phone.

        • Lazy people. Same as today.

  • Although there aren't any high-profile cases of 3D printed weapons being used in crimes in the country

    "High-profile" might be a bit redundant. I doubt any crime involving a 3D printed weapon will get treated as "low profile" for a while yet.

    Or it could just be the author's fancy way of saying "I haven't heard of any such cases."

  • it's control of the 3-D printers they're after... ultimate aim is to have them DRM'd so you can't pirate shapes...

    • It is definitely distressing that the way a large portion of the global population is being exposed to 3D printing is with this "printable gun" scare. Now instead of seeing it for the fantastic technology that it is and spending creative energy finding beneficial uses for it, a lot of people won't be able to see it as anything but a dangerous device that needs to be heavily regulated for the sake of public safety. 3D printers should be something everyone will have in their own home within a decade, not some

  • Why are 3D printed firearm parts any different than CNC milled firearm parts? The CNC milled ones are likely more accurate too.

  • In a perfect world every criminal would 3d print their guns. Think how much safer we would all be after their plastic weapons blow up in their faces!

    The rest of us would build them from metal using lathes. Imagine a world were everyone (well everyone now that the criminals have removed themselves) has that kind of DIY skills!

    Why the hell would anyone want to stop the criminals from offing themsleves?

  • ... close all the hardware stores [boingboing.net]. And confiscate all the garden tools [thechive.com]

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