Chinese Researchers' 'Terror Cam' Could Scan Crowds, Looking for Stress 146
concertina226 (2447056) writes Scientists at China's Southwest University in Chongqing are working on a new type of camera that takes Big Brother to a whole new level – the camera is meant to detect highly stressed individuals so that police can catch them before they commit a crime. The camera makes use of hyperspectral imaging, i.e. a 'stress sensor' that measures the amount of oxygen in blood across visible areas of the body, such as the face. Chinese authorities are deeply concerned about the recent spate of deadly attacks occurring in public places, such as the mass stabbing attack by eight knife-wielding extremists in the city of Kunming, Yunnan in March, which left 29 civilians dead and over 140 others injured.
Psycho Pass (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Psycho Pass (Score:3)
Re:Psycho Pass (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Psycho Pass (Score:0)
That these are just puppets?
Re:Psycho Pass (Score:2)
>Please officer I'm 20 minutes late for work not a terrorist!
>Sorry, we need to verify your identity and make you 20 minutes later
>Portable scanner: warning stress level increasing, violence imminent
"Sorry boss, I got shot on my way to work this morning"
Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:0)
There are people who says that there is a way to cheat the lie-detector - and I am wondering of there is a way to cheat this new hyperspectral imaging thing ?
Re:Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are people who says that there is a way to cheat the lie-detector - and I am wondering of there is a way to cheat this new hyperspectral imaging thing ?
Yea - it's called "being exactly the type of sociopath you would want stopped by this sort of thing."
See, a sociopath won't show stress before committing a crime, because they don't stress about such things; that sort of behavior is normal for them.
Re:Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:2)
Re:Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:3)
Don't think that would work, as lie detectors are based off of heart rate and skin salinity (I think), whereas this camera operates by recording a persons "aura," for lack of a more scientific term.
Point being, a true sociopath, such as a religious fanatic, isn't going to show stress the way the authorities would expect them to. All this camera is going to catch are the people with high blood pressure, and those of us who get nervous around cops.
Re:Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:2)
> whereas this camera operates by recording a persons "aura," for lack of a more scientific term.
Aura? Seriously? No. Not even close. It works by looking for small fluxuations in skin color that result from changes in blood flow. This same technique has been investigated as a tool for medical use as well.
I am pretty sure that clenching your anal sphincter, or any other muscle in your body, will result in changes in blood flow. Actually given how poor most people's motor control actually is, it will probably result in you clenching several other muscles and likely holding your breath momentarily (seriously, try it, also, try taking a dump without holding your breath as you push, it takes some practice....)
> All this camera is going to catch are the people with high blood pressure, and those of us who get nervous
> around cops.
On this you are spot on....along with people who:
- just had a fight with their wife
- have kids failing classes
- just lost their job
- are on their way to a job interview
- just got a cancer diagnosis
- have an irrational fear of travel
Re:Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:2)
> whereas this camera operates by recording a persons "aura," for lack of a more scientific term.
Aura? Seriously?
Well, no, of course not. But when they use terms like "hyperspectral imaging," you've got to admit, that sounds pretty damn Ghosthunter-y.
Re:Is there a way to cheat ? (Score:2)
Hyper = increased beyond normal range, like hyper-extension (joints) and hyperglycaemic.
Spectral = light emission range.
They are simply using UV or IR imaging (most likely IR, as increased oxygenation in the surface blood will alter the temperature of the skin) and since IR falls outside our typical range of visible light, calling it Hyperspectral imaging is quite correct.
You may be mistaking Spectrum and Spectre here and ending up with a ghost who's ingested too much sugar.
Re: Psycho Pass (Score:0)
I have actually been detained for around 1-2 min by 'failing' such a test while walking into a secure area in the US. You basically get stopped and if you calm down they let you go. The I important thing to remember is 99% of the time it's going to be a false positive so they are really checking to see if you going to flip out.
PS: People had attacked the building before on more than one occasion so it seemed like a reasonable precaution.
Re: Psycho Pass (Score:2)
> You basically get stopped and if you calm down they let you go.
I wasn't aware that testing people for the ability to calm down was so important. Guess fuck anyone with an anxiety disorder. Only a couple of them anyway, and as long as they can be quiet about it no harm no foul right? So what if they experience a little personal hell for ....
> The I important thing to remember is 99% of the time it's going to be a false positive
99% is one time in a 100 is not a false positive? I have trouble believing even that is anything but a gross underestimate. Maybe 99.9999% or more. Since each crowd contains only a whole number of terrorists, the average crowd contains exactly 0 of them, so every single detained person is a false positive.... making it really 100%.
Maybe it will someday luck out and catch a terrorist, but it wont be before the number of people detained has been lost count of.
Re:Psycho Pass (Score:1)
Sybil has determined your PsychoPass hue is too green. Please report to a therapy center immediately.
Strive for a clear hue!
Strive for a clear hue!
I can see a large false positive rate (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:1)
I think it will be a good way to determine where public bathrooms are needed.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:1)
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:0)
There you go again complaining about Muslims. You really are a tiny-minded, scared xenophobe. It sounds like you and your ilk would set these sensors off in a heart-beat, as you seem utterly scared of Muslims, of whom you seem to know next to nothing. You are pathetic.
I'm sorry. Let's call them "terrorists" then. That would be the more accurate label.
But let's not let labels get in the way of facts. Like the fact that the overwhelming majority of them are Muslim.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:0)
The overwhelming majority of terrorists in the middle east are Muslim, yes.
That does not mean the overwhelming majority of Muslims are terrorists.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:2)
Terrorists in the newly declared 'Islamic State': 10,000ish
Terrorists supporting Hamas: 40,000ish
Lets assume that half the Muslim terrorists in the Middle East are inexplicably not aligned to either of the above causes.
Even those generous estimates leave the number of Muslim terrorists just half the size of the organisation actively bombing children, making people homeless and preventing a normal life for millions.
I guess I just have a different definition of 'terrorist' to you.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:2)
Israel army (on phone to Gaza officials): We're going to be bombing this building, so make sure you get all the children, women, and others out.
Hamas terrorist: HA! Children! Stay where you are! You are safe here from the Jewish infidels! Don't move!
---- bombs drop ----
Hamas terrorist (to foreign media): That accursed Israeli army! They bombed children! How could they!
What other military actively warns the enemy ahead of time that they're going to be bombing a specific target? It's Hamas that makes sure civilians stay there, so they can use their deaths in the propaganda war against Israel. And you've fallen for it.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:2)
Remind me, what's the current exchange rate on Palestinian children to Israelis?
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:1)
This scale bad to good defines most Muslims (80+%) .
1. Willing to kill and die to further Islam.
2. Not willing die but willing to kill.
3. Not wanting to do the killing themselves. but supportive of it.
4. Not sure if killing for Islam is good or bad
5. Believes killing for Islam is wrong to an extent, but not going to risk doing anything to stop it.
6. Believes killing for Islam is wrong but won't risk openly opposing killing for Islam.
Unfortunately, There are almost no Muslims who are closer to the last step on the scale which is believes allowing Killing for Islam is wrong and are willing to die to stop it or even willing to openly oppose killing for Islam. And that is why terrorists come from the middle east because they are at best allowed to fester and at worst fully supported.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:1)
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:2)
Certainly, not all Muslims ... I know many who are nice and normal and sane. I suspect the majority of them are, just like everybody else is.
But if you think a 7 year old holding a severed head and posing for a photo is anything but desensitized to violence then I'd love to know what you consider 'normal'.
The extremists have taken barbarism and disregard for life to some pretty disgusting levels.
I'm betting you take the average happy, well adjusted child and show them a severed head, and they won't be posing for pictures.
I can pretty much guarantee I'd faint, hurl, or any number of things. Posing for a picture would not be one of them.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:0)
Also people like my with an anxiety disorder. I'm stressed all the time even just eating my lunch.
Re:I can see a large false positive rate (Score:2)
What is a... (Score:0)
What is a false positive? I've never heard of it before.
Re:What is a... (Score:0)
What is a false positive? I've never heard of it before.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=false+pos... [lmgtfy.com]
Re:What is a... (Score:0)
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sarcasm_you_flippling_idiot
Re:What is a... (Score:0)
Is when they first shot/kill you without enough evidence and later they blame you for having to invent explanations about it.
In related news (Score:0)
Apple has stopped shipping the latest iPhone as the entire workforce of the Foxconn plants where it is made was detained by Chinese police on suspicion of terrorism.
Terror (Score:0)
Does anyone else recognize the irony in calling it a "Terror Cam"? Implying it's going to detect terror - but it's really getting much closer to an Orwellian situation where everyone is terrified of getting noticed by the thought police.
Really, this is about detecting people who are /thinking/ about committing a crime. So, it's completely about thoughtcrime, not real crime.
Re:Terror (Score:2)
Re:Terror (Score:0)
Dude we're moving in the same direction here in America.
Are we now reduced to mindless copycats?
Re:Terror (Score:2)
Re:Terror (Score:1)
i've noticed this too. it's a weird combination of things.
: The fetishization of China by certain weirdos as a place of 'economic liberty' (lol), or at least something worth kowtowing to, just in case.
: The fear of appearing racist. This is due to a confusion of China (the culture) with Chinese (the race). In a bit of amusing irony, this confusion comes partly from the intense xenophobia of the Chinese culture itself. Here's a hint: corruption and brutality are not strongly heritable traits.
: False liberal humility.
: And finally, organized forum postings by patriotic and/or compensated [wikipedia.org] agents. Seriously, check for ACs and the recently-registered.
Except.... (Score:0)
Many freak shows that do this stuff are completely calm and collected about doing this stuff...
Re:Except.... (Score:0)
So psychopath criminals are precisely the ones who won't be caught.
Re:Except.... (Score:2)
As stupid as I think this is, its a valid point. In fact, I highly doubt any terrorist foot soldiers are sociopaths.
What sociopath would risk his own life for a cause? That isn't a very sociopath thing to do. The place for the sociopath is planning the attack and finding the ideological folks to carry it out.
The actual low level terrorists are more likely disaffected and pissed. Fathers and sons who see themselves as getting revenge for a killed family member, for example....you know.... the kind of people a sociopath can talk into doing something for him.
Paging Normality... (Score:2)
The problem with this kind of tech is a combination of false positive and police harassment of false positives.
Suddenly anyone with high blood pressure is a suspect.
I wonder if when tech will get deployed at customs.
False Positives (Score:0)
As someone that suffers from severe PTSD, I'm concerned about being picked up for false positives.
Picked the wrong day to quit smoking. (Score:0)
What about the extreme stress of having to be somewhere important on the other side of town and having to walk through a riot zone to get there? What if my wife filed for divorce that day? What if my kid is in the hospital and I'm trying to go there? What about people with astynomiaphobia? And on and on and on. If stress is probable cause for warrantless attention, Americans have no rights at all, because stress--not liberty--is the cornerstone of our lives.
Re:Picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue. (Score:2)
If stress is probable cause for warrantless attention, Americans have no rights at all, because stress--not liberty--is the cornerstone of our lives.
Whoa, back the FBI surveillance van up there cowboy. The article has nothing to do with the US. This is about China. Sure, if this technology takes off, there is a good chance that the TSA and NSA would be next in line. However, it is way too early to start decrying the loss of American civil liberties over this story.
Re:Picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue. (Score:2, Informative)
If you don't think the Amerikans are trying this already in secret, you're dumber than a bag of hammers.
Face Recognition in Casinos (Score:2)
"One of the most important advances in casino technology comes from facial recognition systems, where guests entering the gambling area are photographed and their visages are compared with an ever-growing database of known cheaters and suspicious people."
- Link [tested.com]
The Dude abides (Score:0)
In other news... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:2, Informative)
This also won't work against the "terrorist" Buddhist monks who have decades of training in maintaining a perfectly zen state of calmness even in extreme situations... however their shaven heads and robes might be a dead give away.
"The Chinese foreign ministry has accused the Dalai Lama of "terrorism in disguise" for supporting Tibetans who have set themselves on fire in protest against Beijing's rule." - http://www.theguardian.com/wor... [theguardian.com]
Re:In other news... (Score:3)
Actually for the Tibetan monks its a push.
Meditative practices can also help a person increase the flow of oxygenated blood in their body (what Qi really means) and help with the ability to consciously direct it.
(slips on robes) "These are not the terrorists you're looking for."
Re:In other news... (Score:0)
Of course people with chronic anxiety get tossed in the clink for some "suspicious behavior" charge.
Better start buying your Corrections Corporation of America and Geo Group stock, as past gains have shown them almost as good as Apple for growth in the past decade.
Or maybe (Score:2)
You could just change the government there and allow people more freedoms, including religion. Being fascist dickwads certainly isn't helping things. I'm not an advocate for religious practice however peoples' beliefs can force them to do something awful just to draw attention to their plight. Instead of stabbing people randomly, people being repressed in China could be like Shen Yun [goo.gl] and put on a show about it. No? Well okay carry on then creating something that'll put more people in jail or bring back the labor camps. [washingtonpost.com]
Re:Or maybe (Score:2)
Being fascist dickwads certainly isn't helping things.
You're completely missing the [oh-so-fucking-simple] point: being Fascist dickwads helps Fascists with their Fascist agendas.
Re:Or maybe (Score:2)
Well sadly FDs also get help from those Democracy loving nations around the world so it's not just fascists helping fascists out there. Lots of companies for example are helping the repression in Bahrain but nobody really says much because "there one of the good Arab nations"
Re:Or maybe (Score:0)
So how did the Americans offended the Saudi 911 terrorists?
Did Islam get repressed in America?
If anything the west need to learn from the Chinese.
The West/America has become a synonym for terrorism target. American embassies around the world basically triple isolation medieval fortresses (uncanny when you come across them outside of the country...like how much did they spent on this fucking passport stamping office). Americans travelling internationally have, if not explicit, instructions to not overtly be discernible as Americans.
The West need to fix its own huge sectarian problems.
Internationally and home grown.
Re:Or maybe (Score:1)
Find me one Western government that isn't trending in this direction. If you think that most of them aren't moving that way, you haven't been paying attention.
The difference is really only in why you tell people you're doing this stuff, not that you're doing this stuff.
You don't think America would deploy terror cams at the drop of a hat? If you don't, you're sadly deluded.
The difference being, they'll tell people it's for their own safety, and people will eat the shit and smile.
Re:Or maybe (Score:2)
Yeah and they do it because we let them do it. Frankly I have more hope of turning around the situation of over-surveillance all in the name of stopping crime/terrorism. Unfortunately in China, the people don't have much of a choice in the matter at all. It would be an opportunity to take the lead in China for human rights by getting rid of this system of repressing society and maybe the world would follow that lead.
Re:Or maybe (Score:1)
I hope you know Falun Gong is a cult devoted to a single man, and deprives its followers of every single freedom. The western depiction is like the western depiction of Tibetan Budhism as saintly when reality of history shows it as brutal when in power. Think dismemberment for petty crimes. Falun Gong is worse.
Factory Floor Implementation (Score:2)
This would be great to use in sweatshops! You'd need fewer armed guards and you'd be able to see who is too relaxed (AKA slacking off)! Oh, panoptic society, I thought you were just a fantasy!
Wait, 1984 wasn't a guidebook? Well, then why have been working towards all the same tech? Oh... we're idiots. Got it.
Anyone else notices the problem? (Score:2)
Extremists (Score:2)
Maybe China should stop being so shitty to its people.
Genetically-Engineered Killer Shellfish... (Score:2)
Chinese Researchers' 'Terror Cam'
At first I read that as "Chinese Researchers' 'Terror Clam'...
We live in strange times; anything's possible.
Re:Genetically-Engineered Killer Shellfish... (Score:2)
You are clearly unfamiliar with the Mantis Shrimp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M... [wikipedia.org]
Some of the largest species can break aquarium glass by striking it.
Facecrime (Score:1)
Test it first... (Score:1)
...in the National People's Congress (China's parliament).
I wonder how many potential criminals they'll find within the halls of government.
Clearly this is the wrong approach (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Clearly this is the wrong approach (Score:3)
Re:Clearly this is the wrong approach (Score:3)
As civil liberties are not contingent on one's "need" to exercise them, I'm not sure what point you thought you were making here.
Re:Clearly this is the wrong approach (Score:1)
Civil liberties don't routinely extend to manufacturing devices specifically designed to kill other people and then handing them out to anyone who wants them without any questions being asked. Even devices with other uses but that are demonstrably dangerous to other people get limits placed on them to ensure people are competent (e.g., cars) before letting them loose in public spaces. There is no "right to drive", for example. You have to show that you have a *very*basic* level of competence.
The fact that you have a civil liberty does not give you carte blanche to exercise those rights anywhere and without any conditions, especially when in a public space you are sharing with other people. The standard "yelling 'fire!' in a crowded theatre" principle applies. That's why using a knife at home to cut up broccoli in the kitchen is no issue, but waving the same knife over your head in a shopping mall or city street might be. The expectations are set significantly higher for "designed to kill" devices for good reason.
Re:Clearly this is the wrong approach (Score:2)
Civil liberties don't routinely extend to manufacturing devices specifically designed to kill other people and then handing them out to anyone who wants them without any questions being asked.
I'll bet you're one of those people who thinks hunters are cruel for killing animals, and that the only meat people should buy is what they "make" at the store, so no animals get hurt.
You know - a moron.
Re:Clearly this is the wrong approach (Score:0)
Interestingly enough; in not-completely-recent news, a chinese school kid snapped and started on a stabbing spree, wounding 10+ people. In a similiar school shooting spree on the other size the Pacific, 10+ people where not just wounded, but killed.
Well, you get what you vote for or submit to... (Score:0)
Re:Well, you get what you vote for or submit to... (Score:3)
Re:Well, you get what you vote for or submit to... (Score:2)
Re:Well, you get what you vote for or submit to... (Score:1)
Because stress comes from nothing else... (Score:2)
No one is ever stressed out, unless they are planning a terror attack. No job interviews, arguments with the spousal unit, kids run off, financial problems...
The only thing surprising is that this article isn't about something in the UK or the US. Probably that's where it will first be installed, so that more names can be added to the terrorist watch list.
Re:Because stress comes from nothing else... (Score:0)
Yes, so if you are having a bad day, it can be made much worse! And possibly future days as well...
This reminds me of North Korean where visitors had to put on a happy face or they were suspected of being journalists and breaking some strange edict.
couldnt this be fooled? (Score:0)
Did they grab* this idea from... (Score:1)
Just my 2 Cents, but this idea is going to fail badly. - Just noticed...other individuals oscillate on my frequency.
Pre-Crime Social Dangerousness (Score:2)
Stop the crime before it happens.
Someone should make a movie about this.
Crap. (Score:0)
How long before my company implements this and issues a series of penalties for people who aren't stressed?????
Re:Crap. (Score:1)
Or you can take a shortcut (Score:2)
And just throw everyone in jail who happens to be unemployed. That will save you a whole lot of time.
[/eyeroll]
100% USELESS against psychopaths (Score:0)
As psychopaths have no bodily reactions to criminal or sadistic actions, whether they are about to commit them or thinking about committing them. In fact, fear has zero effect on a psychopath's behavior.
Reservoir Dogs (Score:2)
There is an easy test. Just play "Stuck In The Middle With You." If they pull out a razor and start dancing, they are obviously a Psychopath and you shoot the bastard before he takes off someone's ear.
Undoing Itself (Score:0)
Ironically, once it becomes widespread and routinely acted upon by local police forces, *everyone* in said public areas becomes more stressed about being accosted for being too stressed - at which point there are no longer anomalies to pick out. ;)
lol (Score:0)
all your emotion are belong to us
Comment removed (Score:2)
Old tech (Score:3)
The US has had this for a while. It wasn't much news for us, because we have legitimate terrorist concerns (they killed almost as many people as peanuts did back in 2001!).
Re:Old tech (Score:2)
For a split second I was thinking this tech would be useful in schools to spot people about to go on a murder spree, but then I remembered that a school would have an ungodly false positive rate. It would be interesting to see if it would be of much use to find people who are being regularly bullied, spot those who are under constant stress in school and reach out to them to provide assistance, long before they go on a murder spree.
In related news (Score:1)
uh-oh (Score:1)
psycho pass (Score:1)
Useless system because of false positives (Score:2)
Any anti-terrorist system has the same problem. Even if this is 99% accurate, the amount of false positives would overwhelm the system.
Re:Fucking muslims! (Score:0)
Yeah, if only the Chinese had shut down more mosques and killed more people!
Re:Fucking muslims! (Score:2)
Please step away from the camera ...
Re:Robin Williams is missing from Slashdot! (Score:0)
Re:Robin Williams is missing from Slashdot! (Score:0)
several attempts have already been made but still no FP and a nice -1 for the OP.
Re:Knive are the problems. (Score:2)
No, give EVERYONE knives, so that if you try to go on a knifing spree, there's a good chance that you are going to come up against an angry mob armed with knives.