NSA Considers Linux Journal Readers, Tor (And Linux?) Users "Extremists" 361
New submitter marxmarv writes If you search the web for communications security information, or read online tech publications like Linux Journal or BoingBoing, you might be a terrorist. The German publication Das Erste disclosed a crumb of alleged XKeyScore configuration, with the vague suggestion of more source code to come, showing that Tor directory servers and their users, and as usual the interested and their neighbor's dogs due to overcapture, were flagged for closer monitoring. Linux Journal, whose domain is part of a listed selector, has a few choice words on their coveted award. Would it be irresponsible not to speculate further?
FreeBSD (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:FreeBSD (Score:5, Funny)
What, then you're daemonic
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:FreeBSD (Score:5, Funny)
They don't flag the FreeBSDers for closer monitoring. They just send them straight to Guantanamo Bay.
What's with the 'might'? (Score:2)
Linux since 1991 (MCC floppies).
Proud to be an extremist.
Re: FreeBSD (Score:2)
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Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
There's this story about an off-duty bridge officer aboard a large US military ship who, groggy after having to get up rather early, called the bridge and requested that the vehicle, some quarter of a million tons of steel, personnel and equipment, be rotated 15 degrees, all so he didn't have to move an inch to get the sun out of his eyes while he drank his coffee.
Maybe whoever wrote that list merely wants to read the Linux Journal forums. Surely we're not pretending as if SELinux doesn't exist and that the NSA hasn't historically contributed to Linux. That would be a foolish thing to do. Of foolishness.
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There's this story about an off-duty bridge officer aboard a large US military ship who, groggy after having to get up rather early, called the bridge and requested that the vehicle, some quarter of a million tons of steel, personnel and equipment, be rotated 15 degrees, all so he didn't have to move an inch to get the sun out of his eyes while he drank his coffee.
Maybe whoever wrote that list merely wants to read the Linux Journal forums. Surely we're not pretending as if SELinux doesn't exist and that the NSA hasn't historically contributed to Linux. That would be a foolish thing to do. Of foolishness.
Keep in mind that management is often divorced from reality. I'm sure that applies to the NSA as well.
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The concept of a scientific investigation as seen on CSI is a work of creative fiction, nothing more. The capablities of the US government to deter threats including profiling the target with the largest brush feasibly possible, then trying to fuck with the people who fall under whatever target they made up enough that they point fingers at someone else, and whoever has the most fingers in their dirrection looses.
Hypocrisy and the fact that they
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Eh its got more to do with nerds tending towards white and middle class and thus generaly being left alone by the system.
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
No nerd ever lost their job, and is on the run from US law enforcement for exposing unethical mass survialence and harrassment by the US Government.
No nerd was ever arrested for trying to do the right thing and exposing unethical or dangerous computer behavior.
No nerd was ever arrested for modifying his own video game system, that he bought, and then blabbing about it on the internet.
No nerd was ever targeted for being either a terrorist or a school shooter by rampant paranoia from authorities.
but yeah, your right, nerds are left alone by the system.
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Funny)
I was once on a US military ship, having breakfast in the wardroom (officers lounge) when the Operations Officer (OPS) walks in. This guy was the definition of NOT a morning person; he's still half asleep, bleary eyed... basically a zombie with a bagel. He sits down across from me to eat his bagel and is just barely conscious. My back is to the outboard side of the ship, and the morning sun is blazing in one of the portholes putting a big bright-ass circle of light right on his barely conscious face. He's squinting and chewing and basically just remembering how to be alive for today. It's painful to watch.
But then zombie-OPS stops chewing, slowly picks up the phone, and dials the bridge. In his well-known I'm-still-totally-asleep voice, he says "heeeey. It's OPS. Could you... shift our barpat... yeah, one six five. Thanks." And puts the phone down. And then he just sits there. Squinting. Waiting.
And then, ever so slowly, I realize that that big blazing spot of sun has begun to slide off the zombie's face and onto the wall behind him. After a moment it clears his face and he blinks slowly a few times and the brilliant beauty of what I've just witnessed begins to overwhelm me. By ordering the bridge to adjust the ship's back-and-forth patrol by about 15 degrees, he's changed our course just enough to reposition the sun off of his face. He's literally just redirected thousands of tons of steel and hundreds of people so that he could get the sun out of his eyes while he eats his bagel. I am in awe.
Cue downmods and comments of "Slashdot has literally become reddit."
Extreme? (Score:5, Funny)
I do feel kind of extreme. Extremely awesome for being a Linux user!
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I do feel kind of extreme. Extremely awesome for being a Linux user!
Most Linux users do.
It's not what you think (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm finally Extreme (Score:3)
BINGO! (Score:2)
My whole card's filled out!
I guess that makes me Cyber Bin Laden?
BINGO! (Score:5, Funny)
I guess that makes me usr bin Laden?
ftfy
Re:BINGO! (Score:5, Funny)
-sh: /usr/bin/laden: not found
Muahahaha! >:-D
Re:BINGO! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:BINGO! (Score:4, Funny)
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kill -9 `/usr/bin/Laden`
I'm looking for something like: moderate .. -1 "unix newbie"
ISIS Caliphate (Score:3)
Anyway, the new dude is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi [bbc.co.uk] and he's assimilating Irag, Syria and probably Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Somalia, Nigeria... you name it... into his all new "proper" Islam state.
A number of armies in the region are already squaring up, including Iran and Saudi. There have been some murders of Israeli and Palestinian teenagers by terrorists too, probably trying to goad each side into action.
It's a bloody miserable state of affairs.
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...and his side-kick Blair.
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My whole card's filled out!
Now go outside and hold it up high to claim your prize.
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Silver Lining (Score:5, Funny)
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NSA - proof your government does listen to you.
Magazine (Score:5, Interesting)
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Year of the Linux Extremist? (Score:2)
That has got me curious. I wonder how many terror groups use linux?
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Linux Fundamentalist is the term.
We're all Terrorists (Score:5, Insightful)
At this point, I think I'm not going to be too far away from the mark by saying that if you're not part of the USA' "Military-Industrial Complex", then you're a terrorist.
Re:We're all Terrorists (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate the way ACs are not only so free with their opinions, but I have noticed that almost without fail they always offer tons of well researched supporting facts to back up their opinions.
That coupled with their awesome grasp of humor and their perfect recognition of sarcasm makes me value opinions of ACs like you so very much.
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The NSA should look more deeply into my grandson. He is quite good at terrorizing sometimes.
Underlying cause? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they in any way successful in catching "terrorists"?
Hardly - maybe they caught one guy in - was it San Diego - to give money to some far away organization labeled as well, offensive/dangerous in some way (don't recall all details).
There was also a hearing and a lied number of 20-isch? was admitted but later debunked.
So - all in all, the tremendous snooping effort is not showing much result and essentially being a flop.
Remedy: Increase effort in more and more complex systems.
Otherwise, maybe it's just inner need for control, power and conditioned thinking which motivates and attracts humans to participate in this nonsense (religions come to mind following the same principle).
Actually a very dangerous route this is taking - thought control (if you THINK that, you are...) and modeled prediction of events based on secret procedures
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So - all in all, the tremendous snooping effort is not showing much result and essentially being a flop.
For whom?
- Count de Monet
Re:Underlying cause? (Score:4, Insightful)
So - all in all, the tremendous snooping effort is not showing much result and essentially being a flop.
I don't know about that. I'm sure it's been about as successful as J. Edgar Hoover's mid-century communism witch hunts, which had more to do with propping up Hoover's own personal empire than with catching communists.
Re:Underlying cause? (Score:4, Insightful)
It was well documented after the fall of the Soviet Union that there was a powerful network of communist infiltrators within the US government, and that Sen. McCarthy was right, though he had a horrible clumsy way of acting in reaction to it.
Clumsy? People's fundamental liberties were violated. No matter how 'safe' that makes us, that's more criminal than clumsy.
The Rosenbergs deserved to die, they were guilty.
I don't see how the former follows from the latter, because I don't believe in government thugs executing people to begin with.
Well, of course (Score:5, Insightful)
If you dare to not follow the herd, think for yourself, make up your mind by yourself without the aid of government "guided" media, of course you must be an extremist.
It's frightening how close the US already got to the USSR of old.
Re:Well, of course (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know.
I think the in days of the USSR, the citizens didn't believe the propaganda. Whereas a lot of Americans seem to think "why, we have to do this to stop the terrorists".
Convincing people to buy into it is quite a feat.
Basically the NSA has decreed anybody who disagrees with their methods and scope must be an extremist.
I predict in less than 10 years any form of dissent, or privacy will be completely gone in the West. And then we're all harmless sheep, which is exactly what they want.
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I don't know.
I think the in days of the USSR, the citizens didn't believe the propaganda. Whereas a lot of Americans seem to think "why, we have to do this to stop the terrorists".
Soon will come the time when they will not need to convince anyone anymore.
Re:Well, of course (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because they'll have arrested anybody who disagrees with them, and all that is left will be people too scared to say anything or who agree.
The NSA is the enemy of freedom and liberty, they just act like they're defending it.
And, yeah, some desk weenie has probably flipped a switch that says I'm an extremist -- what they don't realize is the more they do this shit, the more they'll create extremists.
What's really pathetic is how many Americans are buying into this, when not 20 years there would have been outrage.
Really, and truly, on 9/11 the terrorists got exactly what they wanted -- the destruction of Western societies as we knew it, and the rise of Americans saying "we don't give a crap about the rest of the world, we're scared". Sadly, that will create a backlash of people saying "we don't give a crap about the US, now piss off".
There's no going back from this kind of thing.
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I used to think that way, but more and more I think it's going the other way.
Governments seldom get anything right. Look at the NSA. It's big, it's grabbing data so fast that it has 1.) Nowhere to put it and 2.) Nothing to analyze it with.
Meanwhile, the general population is growing data at exponential rates AND is increasing its own awareness of government's interest AND is taking steps to muck things up for the NSA.
In my view, the people are smarter than their government.
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I think the in days of the USSR, the citizens didn't believe the propaganda.
I think that most USSR citizens did believe it. Many people outside the USSR like H.G.Wells and old-style socialists like my (British) grandfather even believed it. The impression that they did not is due to the coverage that the Western media gave (and still gives) to the minority dissidents.
Re:Well, of course (Score:5, Insightful)
If you dare to not follow the herd, think for yourself, make up your mind by yourself without the aid of government "guided" media, of course you must be an extremist.
It's frightening how close the US already got to the USSR of old.
Oh, irony.
See, a rational person would have looked at what's going and concluded that the NSA's position is "of course you're more likely to be an extremist" rather than "of course you must be an extremist". But self-styled "free-thinkers" such as yourself always seem to tend toward these extreme, paranoid views that barely resemble the actual situation. It's almost as if you tended towards extremism or something.
Re:Well, of course (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm sure the data is used for various nefarious purposes
No doubt planned by a guy with a cat in his lap, who likes to say "eeexcellent" a lot.
That's a bit farfetched, but everything the NSA was confirmed to be doing was also farfetched before Snowden leaked those documents.
There was nothing far-fetched about the idea that the government was dong metadata analysis, or working with large corporations to access their data. Both of those things were pretty much an open "secret" well before Snowden leaked anything; he merely provided greater detail about the extent of those operations, and brought that information into the public consciousness.
Besides which, if your thought process goes along th
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It is time to (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do they not exempt 5 eyes countries? (Score:5, Interesting)
I just finished reading the article, and here's something I don't get. They mention that for certain "fingerprints", the NSA would automatically exclude users believed to be in one of the "Five Eyes" countries. Yet, for other fingerprints (such as searching for Tails) it would gather data regardless of where the user is located or believed to be located. Why would they apply the "Five Eyes" exemption some but not all of the time?
Re:Why do they not exempt 5 eyes countries? (Score:4, Interesting)
They give you the Five Eyes exemption until you do something really dangerous like read a Linux magazine or look up encryption tools. Then you've shown that you are a potential threat like all those shady characters who live in every other country on the planet.
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I guess that begs the question then: If they're putting people on watch lists (and capturing data on them for permanent storage) merely for reading Linux Journal or trying to download Tails, how much taxpayer money are they wasting on server space, bandwidth, personnel, electricity, etc to capture and maintain all of this data on people who are on the list for the sole reason that they tried to read about Linux or encryption?
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To be serious, I'd have to imagine they're wasting the vast majority of their resources on this crap. There are a lot more Linux users, privacy advocates or cipherpunks than terrorists in the world, and that's not even getting into the human rights activists, world leaders, phone users from the Bahamas, etc.
Re:Why do they not exempt 5 eyes countries? (Score:5, Insightful)
You are missing the point.
Threat has to be created for the apparatus to be funded.
Repeat the above until it sinks in. People would lose jobs if they said "hey, well, we don't really have a serious threat.... so yeah, we are doing nothing at this time". So they make shit up to keep busy.
Wars are fought for the idea "keep population distracted".
If people were actually rational beings, not "retarded emos", we would not need more than half (more like 90%) of the so called security apparatus. And FBI would not be having a war on drugs, they would be having a war on DUIs (driving under influence), speeding and we would require yearly vehicle safety checks. Also, most people would not be speeding anyway, because hey, would be rational creatures. We would not need to even debate US's outdated second amendment.
But no, we live in a world of phycohistory. Masses are not governed by rationality, but by emotion. The world is "fuck you, got mine". So that's what we have and deserve. We have thousands of nukes still ready to kill off our civilization *today*. We have War on Drugs and War on Everything. We have people protesting nuclear power, because hey, AGW is not real and somehow they think coal is better.
So, it's back to square one. "Fuck you, got mine". That's why we are where we are. /RANT
The NSA has a "game of thrones" complex. (Score:2)
Everyone who isn't us is the enemy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
To a coward... (Score:5, Interesting)
They say to a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To a frightened small-minded cop, everyone looks like a crook. To an agency charged with protecting a nation against people who keep secrets, everyone looks shifty, and like he has something to hide.
To the hanging judge, every man looks guilty, and to a coward, every man is a terrorist.
Their attitude reflects their mindset: they're a bunch of frightened, small-minded cowards. The sad thing is...
We. All. Collectively. Hired. Them. To. Protect. Us.
What does that say about us? Sure, it was by proxy, we hired the useless, corrupt, bought-out politicians who hired them, but it is still the fault of the person who voted these clowns into office. Don't blame the NSA for doing their job, blame the lazy, stupid, good-for-nothing assholes who hired them and gave them permission or negligently allowed them to do what they do, and then blame the people who elected THEM.
There is an old saying: in a democracy, people deserve the government they get. To be honest though, it's not just democracies where this happens. In general, people deserve the government they get. Period.
Re:To a coward... (Score:4, Informative)
There is an old saying: in a democracy, people deserve the government they get.
Actually, the saying is, "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." It was H.L. Mencken who said it.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
That's nothing (Score:5, Informative)
In the 80's it was well known that the CIA was monitoring the USENET. Apparently there was a list of keywords that they searched for that became well known, so we used them all the time. We had it on good authority that the CIA had become amused by our antics. It probably relieved the boredom.
-Matt
I'm extra screwed then (Score:5, Funny)
I'm a Linux sysadmin, run Tor at home and vote Green Party. (In UK were considered domestic extremists - http://www.theguardian.com/pol... [theguardian.com].
I do wonder how that Ice cream van outside stays in business, its not even hot outside!
A mark of honor (Score:2)
Know your history (Score:5, Insightful)
Time to remind everyone of the last time this happened.
Except it was J Edgar Hoover, the FBI, their programs like COINTELPRO [wikipedia.org], and those crazy radicals like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Albert Einstein as well as people on the list for being part of the women's right movement, civil rights movement, "the new left", criticizing the Vietnam war, and the typical boogy-man organizations of socialists and communists.
Or hey, how about MINARET? [wikipedia.org] or SHAMROCK? [wikipedia.org]. Both of which had no warrents, but when people got a whiff of them, congress came down hard and the projects were discontinued.
What's so different about this time? Why are the power that be not doing their job?
Here's a great quote by meta-monkey, from A YEAR AGO:
Re:"Congressional hearings" (Score:5, Insightful) ...
by meta-monkey (321000) Friend of a Friend on Wednesday July 31, 2013 @12:39PM (#44437417)
Scarier part: why aren't they blaming each other for this "serious overreach?" That they will then investigate, have some hearings, and then go right back to biz as usual? That's all politicians do. Make vague, meaningless statements and take no responsibility, blame everyone else, then do nothing. Instead they're making firm, direct statements. "Legal!" "Constitutional!" "Full oversight!"
Why are they so far off script? Here's how the script is supposed to go:
Snowden: "They doin' teh snoops!"
Democrats: "Bush started it!"
Republicans: "Saint Bush never would have authorized this! This must be part of a secret communist Muslim plan to install sharia law!"
Obama: "No, really it was just the Cincinnati branch of the NSA!"
Senate committee: "Thank you for your service, Mr. Snowden for bringing this overreach to our attention. We've got top men working to correct it. Top. Men."
Snowden: "No prob, I'll go rot in obscurity now."
Clapper: "Ow. My wrist. From the slapping. Wheeeeeelp, back to the shadows for biz as usual."
The mask isn't just slipping. It's on the floor. The man behind the curtain is doing a tap dance. Just what the fuck is going on?
One YEAR. The exact same trend is continuing. No one of power is fighting this. No one is backing down. Just what the fuck is going on?
Re:Know your history (Score:5, Informative)
You forgot about one of the dangerous communists he was tracking, Isaac Asimov. [slashdot.org]
(TFA in that link is worth a read, or you can read my spoilers [slashdot.org])
Re:Know your history (Score:5, Funny)
Shit man, don't attract more attention on me! I, uh, use Windows! Windows...ummm...8? Is that the least terreristy one? I don't know! Don't rendition me, I'm harmless I swear!
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HAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, it's too good of a post not to pass along.
Re:Know your history (Score:5, Interesting)
The Stasi (East Germany Secret Police) used to be one of the most powerful intelligence service in the world. It is estimated they had hundreds of thousands of informants and it maintained files on millions of citizens of East Germany.
But the Berlin wall eventually fell, despite all its efforts and all its agents. I believe the same thing will happen in the US. When the times comes, the whole rotten house of cards will crash down to earth.
Oh, and, NSA? Please go f**** yourself.
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There's no Berlin Wall in America.
... Yet. They are working on it, thank you very much. See here. [wikipedia.org] Or here. [time.com]
I think you didn't get the memo on the whole Berlin Wall metaphor.
Your poor attempt at sarcasm betrays (a) an overly sensitivity to criticism of your country, and (b) a complete misunderstanding of the issue at hand. There is no Berlin Wall because there is no escaping the NSA. They are spying on the entire world. You can move to Mexico - that makes you a suspect. You can move to Canada - that makes you a suspect. If you even talk to someone who may know someone who may have been in contact with a su [theguardian.com]
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One YEAR. The exact same trend is continuing. No one of power is fighting this. No one is backing down.
No one, or almost no one, gets that high in the political machine without having some serious skeletons in the closet. And who knows where all those skeletons are hidden? Oh, yeah. The NSA. QED
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What dirty secrets?
Me and a friend regularly chat about this sort of social trends. His father was an enforcer for the Hell's Angels. He's lead a slightly more colorful life than I have. I have to remind him at regular intervals that some of us actually kept our nose clean and don't have a sordid past and a laundry list of activities that others could hold over our head forever.
But sure, in such a hypothetical scenario: I'D ABSOLUTELY OPPOSE THE NSA'S ILLEGAL PROGRAMS! (especially when it gathered said dirt
Actually they're saying they are going to watch... (Score:2)
... them. They label them extremists because they need to do that to watch people. Is it fair or reasonable? No. It just how our stupid government works.
Should the NSA be watching the very savvy computer communities? Obviously. They have to do that. They can't do their jobs unless they're aware of what is going on there.
Should they label them extremists? No. But neither should they need to do that to watch someone.
This is why a lot of political groups in the US are being labeled as extremists. Because there
The NSA also considers Slashdot (Score:4, Funny)
The NSA also considers Slashdot to be a terrorist organization.
And they'd be right too, judging from some of the comments I've posted here... oops.
Twitter (Score:2)
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In other (related?) news, I can't seem to send twitter direct messages containing "http://yro.slashdot.org". Is it just me?
False alarm, it seems you can't direct message any urls except Google's. Derp.
Odd choices all around (Score:2)
Linux Journal, really? The real extremists are over at LWN. And by extremists, I mean those who are extremely good at what they do.
Anyway, while the NSA is searching nerd sites for terrorists, the FBI has been caught covering up [miamiherald.com] for Saudi terrorists.
So, Linux on your iPod makes you what? (Score:2)
Seriously, this is so bizarre that this has to be a garbled report of something simpler. I can see them tracking white power bigots, drugs villains, and people saying any variant of 'God tells me to kill anyone who disagrees with me' but readers of computer science materials?
This isn't the first time I've been called... (Score:2)
Alas, the bill in question was pushed through despite otherwise unanimous opposition within a few weeks of the conservative party obtaining a majority government in Canada.
Finally!! (Score:2)
At last it's the Year of the Linux Desktop! That's terror-riffic!
Is NSA being just a little Schizophrenic? (Score:2)
.
Then they put all the people on the black list that might want to *read* about SELinux, or other technologies, before using it?
Come on, you either want people to be safe _from_ hackers (the bad guys) or arrest all the hackers (software engineers). Maybe someone needs to buy them a current dictionary including the many uses of the c
Give 'em something to worry about... (Score:2)
Just download tails yourself and start using it. Increase the amount of encrypted traffic that they don't know the contents of.
You Might Be "Extremists" If: (Score:3)
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You ask why?
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You think things through.
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You disagree with the NSA.
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You work for the government, and you don't think its a good idea to shut down the government.
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You're old, white, male, and NOT angry.
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You think the Iowa caucuses are comedy.
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You haven't seen any voter fraud.
You Might Be "Extremists" If:
You think anyone that doesn't think like you may have a valid point.
apologies to Jeff Foxworthy
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so, can the government now confiscate their own bank accounts for financing terrorists?
Would there be anything there to confiscate?
Re:oh god (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not a big surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
With people like Richard Stallman at forefront, who can blame them?
You mean the guy screamed about the government spying on us and that we can't trust closed source anything for decades. Guess what he turned out to be right.
Re:Not a big surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
There are few greater crimes in the US than being right when the right answer isn't popular. Ask any Vietnam war protester or George Carlin about airport security.
Re:Not a big surprise (Score:4, Informative)
But the government is intercepting data primarily from open protocols to do the spying. I don't think that closed source had anything to do with that.
That's only because they picked the low-hanging fruit first, and long-ago compromised closed-source with the sometimes-eager help of the companies who sell it.
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Sources for that claim PLZ?
RSA, Cisco?
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Please go ahead and tell us how great it is that the NSA is spying on Americans in order to protect us from extremist Linux users.
Thanks in advance!
-- an American who researched encryption utilities for the electronic medical software he's a developer for. You know who I am!
not even cold fjord could come up with twisted enough of a logic to call this reasonable.
Re:Paging cold fjord and c6gunner! (Score:5, Funny)
Really? Check out the beards on Islamic fundamentalists and l33t *nix sysadmins. Are you ready to assume that's a coincidence?
Re:Paging cold fjord and c6gunner! (Score:5, Funny)
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NSA closely monitoring /.
well in that case one thing to say to the NSA '); DROP TABLE 'lister king of smeg';--,
Re:News Flash (Score:4, Funny)
That's just the punctuation police triangulating your unlicensed apostrophe emissions.