NSA Hacked Huawei, Stole Source Code 287
Charliemopps (1157495) writes "New documents from Snowden indicate that the NSA hacked into and stole documents, including source code, from the Chinese networking firm Huawei. Ironically, this is the same firm that the U.S. government has argued in the past was a threat due to China's possible use of the same sort of attacks."
No irony (Score:5, Insightful)
That's probably how the US govt knows Huawei is a threat...
Personal Liberty! (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait,... isn't this the purpose of the NSA?
Re:Good for NSA (Score:5, Insightful)
No. Huawei is a commercial company. Not a government.
This is our government engaging in corporate espionage.
Re:Retaliation is fair game (Score:5, Insightful)
Merely fighting against America does not necessarily make them bad guys, in a reasonably objective sense. If you are American, then anyone fighting against you would seem to be bad guys from your point of view, but from an outsider's point of view, it's just "these guys" and "these other guys".
Some might argue that them hacking makes them bad guys by some measure, but the US has been doing the same thing, so I'd consider that inconclusive at best and hypocrisy at worst. Others might argue that the stuff done to Americans during the Vietnam War makes them bad guys, but given everything done by the Americans during the Vietnam War... well, same conclusion.
With that said of course, the Chinese government has had a history of doing some very shitty things to a lot of people. On the other hand, so has the US government...
Re:Good for NSA (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess you missed the part where it's in China. Communist/fascist regimes don't have distinctions like that.
Neither do US corporations either... Microsoft, Google, Apple, Yahoo, RSA & others all collect data for the NSA.
Re:Good for NSA (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:No irony (Score:5, Insightful)
The US Gov has never articulated exactly how Huawei is a threat with any specificity. The NSA slides don't give any information either. Nothing released to the public has shown that Huawei was ever guilty of any of the things said about them, but on the other hand, the US Gov itself is guilty as hell as far as engaging in the sort of tactics we've accused Huawei of.
Re:No irony (Score:2, Insightful)
and the rest of the world is learning how untrustworthy the USA is.
Re:Good for NSA (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what they were paid for. Good job, NSA.
Except that they just undermined their government's protests and Chinese hacking. Unlike US allegations against China which are pretty thin the Chinese now have concrete evidence of international law-breaking and industrial espionage against them. Expect it to be used against the US at the WTO and whenever the US tries to make any complaints about hacking in the future.
It will be interesting to see how the US government tries to spin this. They said in the past that hacking could be considered an act of war, retaliated against with conventional weapons as well as cyberattacks. It's pretty much open season on the US now, and you can expect to see virus attacks on US infrastructure in the future. All thanks to the NSA.
Re:Personal Liberty! (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait,... isn't this the purpose of the NSA?
Yep, if Snowden continues along this path he is moving into 'Traitor" territory. I only support him because he releases information on Domestic spying - this is completely within the realm of a FIA.
Re:Personal Liberty! (Score:3, Insightful)
Just as much as it is the job of the army to invade foreign countries and kill their people. Unless we're actively at war with that country, then no, they shouldn't be doing it, and it is an illegal act of aggression. That, and I'm not really sure how a company that isn't involved in anything military should be considered any different from a civilian; NSA doesn't give a fuck about any boundaries.
Plus, might I remind you, the NSA is also attacking American citizens.
Re:Personal Liberty! (Score:5, Insightful)
Y'know what? Fuck you. This whole 'outrage over domenstic activity, but foreign-spying is a-ok' attitude has got to stop.
I'm not American. The notion a foreign power can root through my data, without my or my governments consent, with no repercussions and the full support of people like you, is abhorrent to me.
Traitor? The man becomes more of a hero with every tidbit like this he releases. A Hero to the rest of us. Because you no longer count.
Act of war... according to US (Score:5, Insightful)
> Wait,... isn't this the purpose of the NSA?
According to US government, hacking communication infrastructure of a country by another government is an "act of war", not regular espionage. They said this very loudly just before Snowden revelations began. So NO. They are not supposed to be doing that.
The USSR was fail (Score:5, Insightful)
Which, given what a social, political, environmental and cultural wasteland the Communists left behind wherever they gained authority, was a justifiable and in fact laudable goal.
Re:Personal Liberty! (Score:0, Insightful)
How about the US considers stopping when you convince China, Russia, and other countries to stop too? And that means all spying. And while you're at it, you might as well bad war altogether. Now try enforcing it.
Spying may be abhorrent to you, but it is a fact of life in the 20th century and beyond. It is the reason that various countries have been willing to enter disarmament treaties till now since the intelligence gathering helped provide assurance that nobody was cheating in a meaningful way. Of course they has probably gone out the window. (Thanks Russia!)
Yes, Snowden is a traitor to the US and its allies. You may not think so, but maybe you haven't been occupied by a hostile power lately. I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't actually a patriot to your own country either.
One last thing, a "pro tip," you don't count either.
Re:Personal Liberty! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the most BS I have seen in this article. I almost want to think you get paid for this.
> In this case to the benefit of China.
The point of the article is not whether it benefits China. The point is that US has been accusing other countries of doing things that it itself does many times over... things that it implied that it would find so abhorrent that it would never consider doing. This news would have been a lot less depressing if it was found that China broke into Cisco... because China does not lecture the world on digital principles.
As a non-american, I actually want US to be the bearer of high values in cyber space so that we have someone to point to and say - that is how things are supposed to be done. It has been incredibly disappointing to follow these revelations. Fortunately, the US tech community still holds high values, even if the corporates clearly don't.
The case of Huawei isn't just about China. It's products are used the world over. Attacking them is an attack on the communications of the world in general, not an attack on someone you can conveniently label as a communist enemy. There is no cold war here.
> Snowden claimed to be an expert about China and espionage. When do you think we'll see some information about that?
Snowden is a counter-intel guy on China. He does not have policy documents on China. Why is this even hard for you to grasp?
What you are demanding is like China asking when Ai Weiwei and Chen Guangcheng will criticize US, rather than just China. That's not their responsibility.
> Or will the trend of only releasing information the compromises intelligence methods and activities of the US, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and their allies continue?
First, he can only disclose what he had direct access to. If you want China docs, get a Chinese whistleblower.
Second, none of the disclosures are considered “methods”. The journalists have been cautious to not disclose them.
> He is indeed the rarest of "patriots," exposing only the intelligence plans of his own country and its allies, and not those of its adversaries.
Please provide a list of these non-rare patriots that expose intelligence plans on both sides.
Re:No irony (Score:5, Insightful)
UM, does anyone else feel like saying F--- Snowden at this point?
No.
Here we go again (Score:4, Insightful)
Please show your working.
I'll bet it's an amusing little bit that skates around some view that Snowden was betraying a King for his country and North betraying his country in the way he served his King. I really don't get why people like you want to spit in the face of George Washington and go back to King George.
Re:No irony (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. Most of the rest if the world is dirt poor, and yet many of these dirt poor folks have the common sense to understand that this is not entirely unrelated to the West being filthy rich. Wealth distribution is pretty much the opposite of what you'd expect looking at natural resource distribution.
Similarly, even though we in the privileged comfort of our Western sofas like to pretend we're mostly a force for Good in the world, those at the receiving end somehow tend to remember who is propping up the violent and corrupt regimes whose boot rests on their faces.
Re:No irony (Score:5, Insightful)
UM, does anyone else feel like saying F--- Snowden at this point?
Free Snowden? Yeah I'll second that.
Re:Here we go again (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Here we go again (Score:4, Insightful)
What a pathetic attempt to weasel out and not take responsibility for your own words.
Re: Personal Liberty! (Score:5, Insightful)
> I'm not sure who you've been listening to but if you think the US pretends not to spy you really are unaware of the world around you.
Are you dense? Where do you think the outrage in the world is coming from if this was all understood as typical espionage activity.
Let me answer that for you. This isn't simple foreign spying. No one expected NSA to be spying on entire populations of the world. There is no spy agency in the world that does that. It is legitimate to do targeted espionage. Every country does that. This is not about nabbing a foreign terrorist or spying on diplomats.
People simply expected US to do a better job at targeted espionage than anyone else. No one also expected NSA to be engaged in character assassinations of conspiracy theorists and social manipulations of hactivists. US always promoted the rhetoric that these things as abhorrent and incompatible with its values and for the rest of the world.
And don't answer with an attitude that US can do what it wants and that it is up to foreign governments to protect their civilians either. US purports itself to be the leader of the free world and these actions are incompatible with that role. If it wants to simply be an imperial power - fine. Unless US addresses these issues, the world will reconfigure itself to such an implicit declaration in time.
Re:No irony (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what tends to happen...