Snowden Says No One Listened To 10 Attempts To Raise Concerns At NSA 273
As reported by the Washington Post, Edward Snowden denies in no uncertain terms the idea that he failed to go through proper channels to expose what he thought were troubling privacy violations being committed by the NSA, and that he observed as a contractor employed by the agency. The article begins: "[Snowden] said he repeatedly tried to go through official channels to raise concerns about government snooping programs but that his warnings fell on the deaf ears. In testimony to the European Parliament released Friday morning, Snowden wrote that he reported policy or legal issues related to spying programs to more than 10 officials, but as a contractor he had no legal avenue to pursue further whistleblowing." Further, "Elsewhere in his testimony, Snowden described the reaction he received when relating his concerns to co-workers and superiors. The responses, he said, fell into two camps. 'The first were well-meaning but hushed warnings not to "rock the boat," for fear of the sort of retaliation that befell former NSA whistleblowers like Wiebe, Binney, and Drake.' All three of those men, he notes, were subject to intense scrutiny and the threat of criminal prosecution."
The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:5, Insightful)
...the more star systems will slip through your fingers!
Seriously, if this is true, it's a pretty good illustration of why tin-pot dictators throwing the book and the kitchen sink at whistleblowers are a far more serious security threat than the whistleblowers themselves.
Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:5, Insightful)
Whistleblowers are not a problem; they are the solution.
Re:The NSA could not admit wrongdoing. *CAN not. (Score:5, Insightful)
Furthermore, once you've realized this IS NOT the first time the US intelligence agencies have LIED to protect themselves "and the country by extension",
(Pearl Harbor, USS Maddox, JFK, RFK, USS Liberty, Iran/Contra, 9/11, Iraq, UBL etc etc) and that this "protect the quo, for the nation" attitude has supplanted
the checks and balances *and truth* that USED to run our country prior to the cold wars of monkey business...
how do you hold your head up and wave the flag, knowing all that? An honest man can't.
Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:5, Insightful)
And where's the justice for the people who ARE the problem?
Where are the charges of perjury before congress? Of subverting the constitution of the united states? Arguably, of treason, given the massive damage done to the reputation and interests of the US by the actions supported by a few individuals?
We know that individuals who have done one millionth of what the NSA has done have met harsh punishment at the hands of the law. Where's the punishment here?
Ah yes, I forgot. Laws only apply to the "little people".
Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:1, Insightful)
No you cannot. There would be no reason for him to know anything about these programs at all. He only needs to understand how various servers need to interact with each other, load requirements, etc.. Also, the DoD is pretty big on the whole "need to know" concept. When I was in the military and working with confidential information, this was stated over and over again. I'm pretty damn certain they wouldn't be cool with a sysadmin having such broad knowledge of their programs.
I work at a place where the sysadmins are more than welcome to know any gory detail they want about the software but really don't know jack shit about it. Why? Because they don't really need to and they don't really care.
Who should face prosecution? (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article: "Both Obama and his national security adviser, Susan E. Rice, have said that Snowden should return to the United States and face criminal sanctions for his actions."
Perhaps the Obama administration could set an example of following US law by appointing a special prosecutor to investigate the legality of the recent revelations? It's always good to practice what you preach!
The root of the problem lies with ... the people ! (Score:4, Insightful)
And where's the justice for the people who ARE the problem?
Before we can get justice we need to look for the root of the problem ...
Who are the one keep electing those assholes into Washington D.C. ?
We, the people.
Who are the one letting the government destroying the liberty of the country ?
We, the people.
What kind of justice you are after ?
After all, we do deserve the very kind of government that we keep on electing.
Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not everyone is dumb. Some people actually think and do care. He obviously understood the ramifications of what was going on and he reported it. No one cared and the programs still exist. Now he has leaked all this shit and WE ALL UNDERSTAND but not the NSA nor the GOVERNMENT.
So what's your argument here? Put him in jail because he understood things he was not supposed to understand and then we're all fine? The programs don't really exist?
Fine, put him in jail, but not before putting thousands if not tens of thousands of others in jail first - the ones who created and the ones who didn't report these systems.
Re:why wait? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think he might have had a few more people on his side if he would have said this from day one.
He would also have a lot more credibility if he named names instead of saying he warned "10 officials". Which ten? Why not name them? Does he think they deserve protection?
Re:why wait? (Score:5, Insightful)
What is it with the constant disbelieving of Snowden?
Of the things that we now know the truth or falsity of, everything he has said so far has been true, while most of what the NSA has said has been a lie. Learn from experience, people.
Re:Complete load of crap (Score:5, Insightful)
Basically he says that he told his supervisors that, in his opinion, a spy agency shouldn't be spying.
So if a general decides to annex kansas and a soldier objects you are going to post that he "basically told his supervisors that in his opinion a military organization shouldn't be conducting military operations." and his opinion should be ignored.
Yeah, good grasp of the situation. The NSA is a spy agency, with specific objectives. Their activities were so far removed from those objects that they are completely unjustifiable, and a collossal waste of effort and money.
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Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (Score:5, Insightful)
Who are the one keep electing those assholes into Washington D.C. ?
We, the people.
You're right, of course, but on the other hand any process that involves collective decision-making by 130 million people is bound to act more like a one-move-per-year version of Twitch Plays Pokemon [twitch.tv] than any kind of particularly rational decision-making.
Add to that the amount of money and effort that is regularly channeled towards manipulating the voting public towards the ends desired by those with resources to do so, and it's impressive that the system works even as well as it does.
But I wouldn't blame the system's deficiencies on individual voters -- the fact is that any individual or like-minded community of voters could in fact do a better job for their particular needs, but at the national level, at least, coherent communities of voters tend to largely cancel each other out, leading to unpredictable results. Which I suppose leads us to the argument that more power should be delegated to lower levels of government rather than the Federal level...
Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (Score:2, Insightful)
Before we can get justice we need to look for the root of the problem ...
As a cyberneticist I have analyzed the problem using Information Theory as applied to the flow of information between multi-scale complexity information pools (of which everything from atoms to brains to agencies to governments can be classified).
The root of the problem is information disparity. Secrets themselves. The larger and more complex the information pool the more important it is for other pools to be fully aware of its internal state in order to maintain autonomy.
Whooosh ! (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't help but hearing a very loud " Whoooosh !! " noise.
Wonder why ?
Re:why wait? (Score:3, Insightful)
If he names them, there will be people screaming that it is irresponsible to out national security workers.
Re:sNOwden Listen to this (Score:5, Insightful)
I would say those that dreamed up the spy program, implemented it, got it sanctioned and enshrined in law and defend it made our nation look bad in the eyes of the world. All Snowden did was leak it's existence. If you don't want the US made to look bad, then maybe the US shouldn't be doing things that make them look bad.
Re:why wait? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe he anticipated how they would try to play the game?
... ...
Snowden: I have docs showing
NSA: no you don't
Snowden: here they are
NSA: ok, but you should've worked within the system
Snowden: I told 10 people in the system
<--- where we are today
NSA: no you didn't
Snowden: here's who I told and when
NSA: ok, but <another attempt to change the focus to Snowden...>
Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (Score:5, Insightful)
The proper channels... (Score:5, Insightful)
...are those connected directly to /dev/null. There was no "right way" (in the eyes of the US Government) for Snowden to do anything about these programs, because (again in the eyes of the US Government) these programs are perfectly fine.
To object to the way Snowden did things, suggesting there was a better, effective, way of doing it that he somehow overlooked, is pure disingenuousness on the part of President Obama.
Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (Score:5, Insightful)
The NSA is on record for lying to Congress.
They are the boy that cried wolf. They can not be trusted to be honest with this issue if being dishonest is to their disadvantage. If an inquiry into the NSA shows he never brought these issues up then that's a different story.
Yeah, right... (Score:0, Insightful)
That would carry a lot more weight if he hadn't lied on his applications, by his own admission, specifically to gain access to protected information, the contents of which he could not have known, only to immediately sell that information to America's frenemies. I had a lot more respect for this guy before he started talking.
Re:why wait? (Score:5, Insightful)
Snowden's not the one short on credibility. That honor goes to the NSA.
Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (Score:5, Insightful)
Start a truly new party, something different enough to actually catch people's imagination. Perhaps a direct-democracy party with serious penalties for candidates that don't do as their constituency tells them.
I gave this some thought a few years ago. I could build a simple application that would allow constituents to vote on any random congressional bill. I would then use this as my primary campaign strategy. "Don't vote for me, vote for you." I would vow to vote the way my constituents wanted me to. Pretty damn simple, really.
I started to think further, and that it's kind of a problem I don't have the perfect political background. People would dig up dirt on me and that's not too fun. Then I thought, why would it matter? They're not voting for me, they're voting for themselves!
I think there are definitely some congressional districts that would like this type of approach, but probably not many. I think it would be an interesting thing to do, though, simply for the potential advancements to democracy thanks to the digital age. Hell, the number of signatures needed to run is not really that many. Maybe I'll do it, but probably better for someone with more financial freedom than myself to give it a shot.
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Re:But, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
That whooshing sound is your cue that you're too stupid to vote.
Next time they will listen (Score:5, Insightful)
and the whistleblower candidate will be properly flagged, monitored, caught in action, and silently jailed before he/she manages to release anything to the public.
Re:The first fell in to one group (Score:4, Insightful)
In my 15 years of Federal experience ... I find there are two types of people: Psychos who lead and Cowards who follow. Everyone else either quits or gets fired.
Re:Cost effectiveness (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps the criticsm of the NSA should focus on the very poor use of resources.
No. We must focus on the fact that they're infringing upon our freedoms. As soon as you make it about efficacy, you start to seem as if you're saying it would be okay if the programs were effective, and that is simply not true. The US is supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave, so freedom should reign above all.
Re:don't believe snowden anymore... (Score:4, Insightful)
Now he suggests he saw the violations only when he was working at the contractor..
He was promoted to a position where he could obtain those documents.
the man willingly signed a NDA-contract knowing he wouldn't abide it anyway
Such petty contracts mean nothing in comparison to the constitution (which the US government is supposed to be bound by) and freedom.
Personally I really don't believe Snowden even tried the proper channels
The "proper channels" aren't actually proper, though. The only proper channel is leaking the unconstitutional and evil activities of the government to the American people.
Re:Broken link: Here ya go (Score:5, Insightful)
If he never tried to go through Congress he didn't try to go through channels.
So which congresscritter do you work for? That's the only explanation that I can imagine for such an absurd comment.