High Court Rules Detention of David Miranda Was Lawful 169
Alain Williams writes with news that last year's detention of David Miranda and seizure of files destined for Glenn Greenwald has been ruled lawful. From the article: "The nine-hour detention ... of an ex-Guardian journalist's partner has been ruled lawful. ... At the High Court, Mr Miranda claimed his detention under anti-terrorism laws was unlawful and breached human rights. But judges said it was a 'proportionate measure in the circumstances' and in the interests of national security. ... In his ruling, Lord Justice Laws said: 'The claimant was not a journalist; the stolen GCHQ intelligence material he was carrying was not "journalistic material," or if it was, only in the weakest sense.'"
Naturally, an appeal is planned.
Of course it's "lawful" (Score:5, Insightful)
To paraphrase, when the government does it, it's not illegal. It would be absurd to expect any other outcome.
Re:Of course it's "lawful" (Score:5, Insightful)
... so it is "absurd" to expect a government to be other than hypocritical? "Absurd" to expect a government to obey laws it creates?
Perhaps so, but I am not so cynical. This "sovereign immunity" is purely predatory behaviour and utterly inconsistent with human rights and "consent of the governed". That does not mean it will stop soon, but it is chipping away.
BTW, how did they know it was GCHQ docs? Did he confess? or Were they unencrypted and GCHQ attested?
Re:Of course it's "lawful" (Score:4, Insightful)
The government entry in the “Manhunting Timeline” adds Iceland to the list of Western nations that were pressured, and suggests that the push to prosecute Assange is part of a broader campaign. The effort, it explains, “exemplifies the start of an international effort to focus the legal element of national power upon non-state actor Assange, and the human network that supports WikiLeaks.” The entry does not specify how broadly the government defines that “human network,” which could potentially include thousands of volunteers, donors and journalists, as well as people who simply spoke out in defense of WikiLeaks.
No surprise there.
Re:Of course it's "lawful" (Score:4, Insightful)
Why shouldn't prisoners be allowed to vote? Unless a person's citizenship is stripped, they should always retain the right to vote.
To be clear, I'm aware that the US has the same laws, but I've always felt them antithetical to a free and democratic society.
This is especially true in a world where no citizen can be aware of all of the laws and in many cases the laws actually conflict.
Re:Of course it's "lawful" (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not so daft allowing some prisoners to vote in elections. Think about why you are locking them away and why you are releasing them.
People go to prison for breaking our societies rules, it's pretty pointless releasing them if they have no way to re engage with society in a lawful way. It's better for society for prisoners to be released and get jobs and become a productive part of society again. If these prisoners can't be integrated with society then its likely they will prey on the community instead. Then we end up paying to keep them locked up instead this time for longer and even less chance of being able to reintegrate.
If your saying to people you have no part in our society then what reason do they have to have any regard you your family your property ever.
Re:Of course it's "lawful" (Score:3, Insightful)
Why wouldn't prisoners be allowed to vote? One man one vote, no exceptions. Once you make exceptions you can justify anything like not allowing slaves or women to vote either.
Re:Sort of Weird (Score:4, Insightful)
Except that Miranda is not, never has been or claimed to be, a journalist.
He was, in essence, a mule.
Re:Sort of Weird (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhm, no - there are no "fundamental" human rights, the very idea is a bullshit concept.
Every right we talk about are rights we grant each other - you don't have a right to life, that's a privilege society around you grants you to have and enjoy. You don't have a right to freedom of expression, that's a privilege society around you grants you to have and enjoy. You don't have a right to carry lock picks, that's a privilege society grants to certain members.
The only thing protecting your "right" to do anything at all is society as a majority, which distinctly removes the possibility that its a fundamental right.
What freedom of expression, self governance, life and everything else are are in-fact rightful and just privileges that should be defended by society as a whole for each other.
meh. (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh no it's hyper partisan either side, not especially on the "left" and the "right". What's more conservatives label facts as being hyper partisan nowadays. Liberals of course do this too, but to a much lesser degree, but that's only because it tends to already coincide with their value structure. The 4th estate is seriously flawed, and this goes back most recently to the removal of the fairness doctrine. When infotainment became more valued than education by the American populace this crap fed on itself. If Americans demand less bias and are willing to actual do more research than take the sound byte fact machine's words for it things will change. But that's hard and we all have limited attention spans.
Re:Of course it's "lawful" (Score:5, Insightful)
The rather notorious judge Lord Denning summed this up quite nicely in his decision supporting the deporation from the UK of US journalist Mark Hosenball for daring to mention the existence of GCHQ in an article for Time Out magazine:
They [the executive] have never interfered with the liberty or the freedom of movement of any individual except where it is absolutely necessary for the safety of the state. In this case we are assured that the Home Secretary himself gave it his personal consideration, and I have no reason whatever to doubt the care with which he considered the whole matter. He is answerable to Parliament as to the way in which he did it and not to the courts here.
The extent of his cognitive dissonance can be seen from his prefacing remarks:
In some parts of the world national security has on occasions been used as an excuse for all sorts of infringements of individual liberty. But not in England.
In other words, Denning (and two other judges on the bench concurred) was simulaneously of the opinion that every judgment the government had ever made in the past in curtailing liberty was justified; that the Home Secretary was above challenge in a court of law; and that England was a bastion of individual liberty.
With judges like that, courts are essentially redundant.
Incidentally, in a judgment on an attempt by the Birmingham Six (whose convictions as IRA bombers were finally quashed) to sue the police for beatings they received before finally confessing, Denning said:
If the six men win, it will mean . . . that the convictions were erronoeous. That would mean that the Home Secretary would either have to recommend they be pardoned or he would have to remit the case to the Court of Appeal . . . This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say it cannot be right that these actions should go any further.
So, don't look to the law if you want justice.