In Greece, 10 Months In Prison For "Blasphemous" Facebook Page 324
First time accepted submitter etash writes "A bit more than a year ago a man was arrested in Greece for satirizing a dead monk, after the far-right party golden dawn, petitioned for his arrest. A couple of days ago he was given a ten-month sentence. What actually enraged the religious Greek blogosphere was not the satire. He wrote a fictitious story about a miracle done in the past by this specific monk. The story was then sent to [a religious blog] and then in a matter of days it was copy pasted and presented as true by most of the religious and far-right blogs and news sites. The final act of the dramedy took place when he came out and revealed that the story was not real; he intended to show the absurdity and the lack of reliability of these sites."
Not here! (Score:5, Interesting)
One sheep's "blasphemy" (Score:5, Interesting)
One sheep's "blasphemy" is another man's truth.
Government and law should stay the hell out of religious debates.
Re:Not neccesairly (Score:5, Interesting)
Stipulations in Freedom of Speech rarely turn out well. Freedom of any and all speech should be a fundamental human right.
Thomas Jefferson and James Madison once had this same conversation. Jefferson had proposed that the Constitution protect the right to "speak the truth". Madison pointed out that this was a bad idea, because people in power could dictate what was "true". Jefferson agreed, and freedom of speech was written into the Bill of Rights without qualifications.
Re:Not here! (Score:3, Interesting)
The president can take the oath however he likes. He does not need to use a bible or have the words so help me god included. Granted No non-christian would ever get elected but if they did there is no requirement for a bible or mention of god.
Re:Proof the religion is the true evil. (Score:4, Interesting)
Metaxas [wikipedia.org] didn't fight against Italy because he was ideologically opposed to fascism, but as a squabble between two nationalist, fascist dictatorships that each wanted their own country to be the powerful one. From the Wikipedia article on Metaxas,
Patterning his regime on other authoritarian European governments (most notably Fascist Italy), Metaxas banned political parties, prohibited strikes and introduced widespread censorship of the media. National unity was to be achieved by the abolition of the previous political parliamentary system, which was seen as having left the country in chaos (see National Schism).
So, Golden Dawn's model after Metaxas is all about bringing back good ol' Fascism; the only difference they have with German or Italian fascist movements is that their movement centers around making Greece the big, strong, bully country (instead of Germany or Italy).
Re:Proof the religion is the true evil. (Score:4, Interesting)
I am Greek also, living in Greece - most things you wrote are not very wrong (but not very right!). Almost all Greeks are Orthodox Christians (not fanatics, but ALL -yes, even Atheist!- Greeks go to church few times a year) - even you, as a Greek living abroad you, should know that and you should admit that you go to church also!
Indeed, I agree. That is why I said "few go to church regularly", rather than "few go to Church at all." Yes, I'm an atheist and I went to church for Easter this year because I was in Greece then. I can't remember the time I went prior to that and I certainly don't go when I'm not in Greece. It's true that very many turn up for the big events like Easter, but the way they do so frankly hardly counts. For instance, during the resurrection mass most people turn up only for the resurrection itself and then go home. As you know, the service itself goes on for quite some time both before and after that point. This leads me to believe that most go out of habit, for the social aspect, to sing the hymn, etc. I don't think most people are going because of any deeply held religious convictions. This, as you say, is because Greeks are not religious fanatics and aren't interested in a church that judges their private lives. For a lot of Catholics or bible-belters the latter is a rather foreign notion.
Re:Proof the religion is the true evil. (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, he fought against Fascist Italy and Germany --- but, it's like a turf war between rival gangs; he wasn't doing it out of dislike for the fundamental principles of Fascism; only that he was a Greek nationalist, instead of an Italian nationalist (thus not friendly towards Italian military aggression against Greece). When it came to policy and ideology, he modeled his state after that of the Italian Fascists --- book burnings, brutal suppression of dissent (leftists), youth thug squads, enmity against cultural/religious diversity, etc. His only main difference from Fascism was that he worked through the existing, entrenched authoritarian state, rather than gaining popular support to overthrow the existing state and install a fascist dictatorship (not necessary when your dictatorship is already in power, so you can tone down the radical populist rhetoric a bit) --- thus, scholarly contention that he should be technically categorized as "paternalist-authoritarian" instead of "fascist." Sure, he threw in some anti-imperialist rhetoric, which was an easy thing to do for a country without major imperial holdings (but fighting back against imperialist grabs by other countries).
Re:Education, not laws (Score:5, Interesting)
...if a handful of skinheads goosesteps up and down the street yelling "Sieg heil!", there are a hundred non-skinheads who yell "go home you morons" at them.
Does this strategy work? Well, the neo-Nazis here are very marginalized.
Basically I agree strongly with what you wrote in both philosophy and practice. But I cut Germany some slack here, using the US as the example.
Nazism was a “philosphy” that was harnessed to the state within living memory. As a result there are plenty of remaining artifacts around from old driving licenses or professional certificates (e.g. Opticians) or marriage licenses that are still valid documents (old German driving licenses had no expiration dates) which bear swastikas and other nazi references. There are still old granddads who had fun shooting guns in the war. I know one friend’s dad, drafted at 17 in 1944, who's main memories are crazy russians running through hi farm trying to defect to the west. Plus learning to shoot. But every once in a while he uses an old aphorism from his childhood that's not only disturbing, but doesn't even agree with how he lived his life. I am sure there are living grandparents with stories they learned in school in the 30s and who were happy with those times. So since the wound is still fresh, this is a part of trying to heal it.
Compare that to the US. The civil war ended in 1865 but old southern racists survived well into the 1920s (even reaching the presidency, with Wilson) and the Jim Crow legacy continued into the 1960s and beyond. The reconstruction program which was killed early in the US was the equivalent of the reconstruction of Germany, which, in these laws, continues to this day.
I agree with Brandeis that "Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants" so feel free speech should be extremely free. But the German's position shouldn't be rejected out of hand.