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Translating President Obama's NSA Reform Promises Into Plain English 171

Posted by timothy
from the dynamo-of-a-blender-of-an-analogy dept.
sandbagger writes "The cynics at the Register have picked apart Barack Obama's NSA reform promises. As to be expected, there's some good, some deliberate vagueness, talk of 'ticking bomb scenarios' and the politician's favourite 'promises to commit to future reforms'. Basically, it's a fig-leaf to kick the can down the road so the next president has to deal with it. He's promising bulk data will go to a third party so the NSA can't see it. Okay, who is this magical third party?" They don't seem to me nearly cynical enough.
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Translating President Obama's NSA Reform Promises Into Plain English

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  • If you like it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:26PM (#46006439)

    "If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it, period".

    Why would you bother parsing what he said word by word. He lies, period. What he says means nothing.

  • by keyslemur (3505475) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:35PM (#46006507)
    Lol, no.
  • Re:If you like it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by homey of my owney (975234) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:37PM (#46006517)
    What is important here is the appearance of doing something... At least as far as ANY politician is concerned. The suckers buy into it.
  • Plain enough. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rmdingler (1955220) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:38PM (#46006529)
    Will this POTUS stop surveillance of citizens?

    Nope.

  • Get a warrant (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EmperorOfCanada (1332175) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:41PM (#46006549)
    Quite simply there needs to be two things. One is get a warrant, and these warrants need go public in short order. Public with no redactions. My guess is that 99% of redactions are not to protect sources and whatnot but to avoid embarrassment.

    Also these warrants need to go before real judges. If they can't trust the judges then how can they trust anyone?
  • Re:If you like it (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Richy_T (111409) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:50PM (#46006615) Homepage

    "If you like your unconstitutional spy agency, you can keep it"

    I think that's the one promise he could actually keep.

  • Re:Everybody Knows (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Richy_T (111409) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @01:55PM (#46006653) Homepage

    Arguably corporations already have this data so all you need to do is have a law that mandates a retention policy. I still don't like it but it's definitely an improvement (of miniscule proportions)

  • Re: If you like it (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 19, 2014 @02:12PM (#46006771)

    So you'd be ok with daily door to door home inspections because they might make you more safe?

    I wear a harness at work because the danger is real and present. If I fall it will save my life. Now on the other hand the nsa spying on me will not make anyone safer because I have no intention of hurting anyone. They also have no evidence that I intend to hurt anyone. Now if they did have that evidence and used it to get a warrant then spy away.

    people like you make me sick.

  • Re:If you like it (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 19, 2014 @02:12PM (#46006775)

    It's more than that -- Obama is basically telling the American public, "you're all too stupid to know what's best for you, you can express your outrage by signing an online petition and then you go right back to your Facebook and Twitter who are in fact the "third parties" collecting all this data. You're a bitch-ass chump, common American, and I'm going to patronize you for being the fat moron you are, and you're not gonna do a goddamn thing about it."

    Then the common American hangs their head, chin cushioned by a comfortable layer of jowel fat, saying "Okay, I guess..." before waddling off to McDonald's to guzzle down a 64oz. soda and triple cheeseburger while using the wifi to bitch about it on Facebook and Twitter.

    You disgust me, fellow Americans. You're a bunch of spineless, disgusting fat and vain blobs. You don't deserve to be free!

    -- Ethanol-fueled

  • Re: If you like it (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 19, 2014 @02:35PM (#46006933)

    So you'd be ok with daily door to door home inspections because they might make you more safe?

    The absolutist was above, if you'll note, who was saying that "Freedom is more important than safety" without consideration of circumstances.

    I was replying to them, with my own remarks, that did not express any particular sentiment or position, except disagreeing with what I perceived them as saying an absolutist position.

    As far as it goes, I'm ok with home inspections for safety, but I don't see why they need to be daily, unless things are very unsafe. I suppose for the elderly, or the mentally unsound, that might be the case, but for most people, I think that'd be an excessive cost for little gain.

    I wear a harness at work because the danger is real and present. If I fall it will save my life.

    Which means, unlike the person above, you can recognize that there are times where safety is more important than freedom.

    Now on the other hand the nsa spying on me will not make anyone safer because I have no intention of hurting anyone. They also have no evidence that I intend to hurt anyone. Now if they did have that evidence and used it to get a warrant then spy away.

    people like you make me sick.

    Why? Because you see me incorrectly as blindly supporting all NSA surveillance, and want to support that, whereas I see myself as opposing the absolutist position that acts as if safety was never more important than freedom?

    That's because you have a false image of me.

    Now it's possible I have a false image of YumoolaJohn, but if so, I'd like to see him address that, preferably in a non-hostile and belligerent manner.

    Or can you do that, can you acknowledge that your representation of me, may not be accurate, and that you are getting yourself sick because of your own manufactured image of me? You're not as venomous as the previous reply, so I do hold out hope for that possibility from you.

    Next time though, do try to inquire more, and judge less.

  • by Dan667 (564390) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @03:35PM (#46007351)
    If people want to get the NSA reigned in they they should start now making this a big deal for the next election. It does two things. It will make sure the issue does not go away and force it to be an issue for Senate and House elections as well.
  • Re:If you like it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DrJimbo (594231) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @04:09PM (#46007563)

    so you never wear a safety harness, because your freedom is more important than your safety?

    Saying freedom is more important than safety does not imply that safety is unimportant just like Saying Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is taller than Shaquille O'Neal does imply Shaq is not tall.

  • Re:If you like it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by YumoolaJohn (3478173) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @05:19PM (#46008013)

    That's the same argument that violent people make to try to justify gun ownership.

    And they are right. Freedom is more important than safety. I don't believe we should be punishing everyone merely because some people abuse guns.

    What good is the Bill of Rights if you can take those rights if one of those gun owners can take all of those rights from us in an instant with a gun?

    Have some principles, please; you're living in a country that's supposed to be "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

    Some criminal could randomly kill you, but what does that have to do with the government violating everyone's rights? You act as if we must sacrifice all of our rights for safety.

  • Re:If you like it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MrKaos (858439) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @07:14PM (#46008737) Journal

    I'll give you 50 bonus points for not quoting Franklin. I'll also subtract 100 points because you're an idiot.

    Total points: -50

    What about Kennedy? "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable"

  • Re:If you like it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by s.petry (762400) on Sunday January 19, 2014 @11:19PM (#46010253)

    Really, so you never wear a safety harness, because your freedom is more important than your safety?

    False analogy. In a survival situation, you need water before food. That does not mean that you never eat, and making such an implication is simply asinine.

    Ok, so you don't like that way of analogy, fine, let's consider putting people in prison. Why do we do this? Isn't that impairing their freedom? How dare we!

    Another false analogy, and horrible logic. Are you really trying to imply that if you believe in Natural Law, the US Constitution, or personal freedom that there can be no accountability for actions, no justice system, or that having a justice system makes freedom impossible? This is another asinine implication, no matter how it's viewed.

    There is no possible way to debate anyone with logic this horribly broken. Yes, that is correct. It's impossible to debate someone that uses this level of irrationality.

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