NSA Infected 50,000 Computer Networks With Malicious Software 264
rtoz writes "The American intelligence service — NSA — infected more than 50,000 computer networks worldwide with malicious software designed to steal sensitive information, documents provided by former NSA-employee Edward Snowden show."
Belgium is a NATO member (Score:5, Insightful)
The NSA was conducting a military operation against an ally.
Act of war. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wasn't this exactly what the USA declared to be considered an act of war, that would justify retaliation with conventional weapons?
Business is business (Score:4, Insightful)
It's reasonable to expect every intelligence agency to spy on anyone they can.
Perhaps as regards governments the hypocrisy should be dropped, and caught spies simply traded for other caught spies as was Cold War custom. Business IS business, and trusting anyone, even "allies" (whatever that means) can be childish especially if they are penetrated by enemy operatives.
How much we wish to restrain internal spying is another matter.
Re:Belgium is a NATO member (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice observation there. What country doesn't spy on allies? Are you that naive?
AFAIK it is illegal for Finnish government agents to stage hostile operations inside foreign nations.
Related [youtube.com]
Re:Act of war. (Score:4, Insightful)
Probably. You have to remember that the government has different standards for others than for us. We don't care if we violate international law. We only care if others violate the rules we set (be they laws we set or otherwise).
Re:Business is business (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is that "reasonable"? Shouldn't they be focusing their resources of groups/nations that present some threat to us?
Except that this hurts US businesses because now there will be more incentive for other nations (even friendly nations) to use something other than our products.
Not to mention that "penetrated by enemy operatives" sounds more like a movie synopsis rather than a rational approach to international diplomacy.
Reality check (Score:2, Insightful)
Look, you give an agency the task of preventing damage to your country - that is what they are going to try and do, any way they can or have to. And lets be real, laws are just a game. Everyday we see how loopholes, misinterpretations etc are used to get around anything. You think ANYONE at ANYTIME expected GE, Apple, Microsoft to pay 0 taxes? And yet they do, year after year, because with the right efforts, all laws can be gotten around. Laws are what naive people follow, like religions (and religious laws).
If you want the NSA/FBI/CIA to stop spying on everyone, abolish them. Then enjoy your free country for about a year, because that is as long as it will last.
Otherwise understand it is a balance. A balance that people in those positions understand much better than the general public. Let them do their job.
Re:Act of war. (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably. You have to remember that the government has different standards for others than for us. We don't care if we violate international law. We only care if others violate the rules we set (be they laws we set or otherwise).
Yes, The "Do as I say, not as I do" standard.
Re:Illegal? (Score:4, Insightful)
If it's good enough for the RIAA & MPAA to use the term, then it's good enough for the rest of the world.
Re:Business is business (Score:3, Insightful)
The idea there is that (for example) Israel *does* present a nuclear armed threat to America because they have a set of conventional and nuclear capabilities that *could* threaten American interests. For this reason paranoid (professional intelligence) people in the US want to know all the details of what and where those capabilities are, and how they may or may not be used. The same goes for France, Belgium, Canada, etc.
Of course it would be totally wrong and reprehensible for any of those allies to spy on America to try and gain the same kind of information--that would threaten American security and autonomy!
The doublethink these fuckers won't even pause at is really quite something. (Captcha: Exceeds.)
Re:NSA's relationship to AV companies (Score:4, Insightful)
no all AV companies are US companies, IE Kaspersky...
and even if they were some people involved would have leaked the info
don't be grandiose (Score:5, Insightful)
these people are not warriors - they are parasites, and should be treated as such.
it's simply criminal, they should go to jail, like all the rest.
Re:Belgium is a NATO member (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes it does matter that some countries do have moral standards. Unlike, as displayed by the article, USA and UK.
Tell that to Gary McKinnon (Score:5, Insightful)
The USA pursued Gary McKinnon [wikipedia.org] for a decade for cracking some USA military and NASA computers, mainly those where incompetent sysadmins had not changed default passwords. What Gary McKinnon was wrong; but this is also wrong and worse by an order of magnitude.
Do we assume that the USA gov't will hand over those responsible as it wanted the UK to hand over Gary McKinnon ? I would eat all of my hats if the USA gov't even talked about the possibility.
Re:Belgium is a NATO member (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Belgium is a NATO member (Score:4, Insightful)
Existential risk? Since 800 AD? Wars? Um, Finland has not existed at all as a country during most of that time.
Yes, existential risk to Finns .
Finnic tribe habitation. 800 ad [wikimedia.org] Finnic tribe habitation. 912 ad [imgur.com], also [imgur.com],
Earliest conflicts with Russians during existance of written records. [wikipedia.org]
And by the 14th century we arrive at this [wikimedia.org]
The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Belgium is a NATO member (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what the other countries want you to think.
Countries don't really have moral standards. Just budgets.
Re:Act of War (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, The "Do as I say, not as I do" standard.
"American Exceptionalism" in NewSpeak. Double-plus FTFY.
Re:Roadmap needed (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, you focus on anti terrorism but it has been happening long before that.
Some people claim the constitution is an archaic piece of paper which has long outlived its usefulness and should be reinterpreted as much as possible to get around it's limitations. We call these people the "living document" people who think reinterpreting definitions allows portions of it to change meanings as the needs of society changes. This is despite the fact that there is an amendment process and if anything actually did need changed, it could be using the amendment process. But the outcome is the second amendment being nothing but the military having the right to have guns and you and I can hunt, free speech zones (which was originally instituted by the democrats) equaling first amendment rights, removal of all religious displays from public view as the first amendment free exercise of religion, cops dressed like military assault teams having the right to kick in the wrong door and kill the occupants as being the forth amendment's right to be secure in your person, papers and effects. There are a lot more that has happened when we get away from strict interpretations of the US constitution.
You may have only noticed this crap with the war on terror. But it has been around for a while before it. Your rights have been subject to interpretations for quite a while now and terrorism is only the latest if the move.
Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. (Score:5, Insightful)
The response of SOME U.S. citizens is to make foolish jokes.
--there, fixed for you
Regrettably, I cannot fix your bigotry.
A large percentage of U.S. citizens are glad that the Guardian published the information that Snowden took. While he broke the rules, the news media has a responsibility to publish these documents to highlight any improprieties and illegalities going on in the U.S. Federal Government. That's what the news media did with "Watergate" and the Ellsburg Paper. It resulted in the resignation of POTUS Richard M. Nixon. There is no reason for these documents to be withheld now. Regrettably, the U.S. news media did not take the lead in this particular story or other stories during the current regime.
Re:These are the spasms before the end of empire (Score:5, Insightful)
As a Russian citizen I doubt. You know, the strength of US Dollar is based on the fact that it's the only currency exchangeable to petroleum, and every country that uses any other currency for this purpose becomes democratic. (Saddam sold oil for Euros, and his country became democratic, Lybia sold oil for Euros and became democratic too, Iran sold oil for gold and will surely become democratic immediately after Syria).
And I fear that China will become democratic too.
Re:SELinux? (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet he still doesn't disclose what was weird or concerning to them even in an anonymous posting talking about finding something weird or concerning. It's like those whisper campaigns that don't really say anything bad but say something in a way that people interpret it badly then as momentum builds, things are simply added by people who think they heard more then what was said. Before you know it, an attorney general running for governor wants to take birth control away from women when the courts have said long ago that the state couldn't do that and nothing he done as the lead attorney for the state indicates that he ever wanted to do or try to do such things.
I mean even if he was scared/worried that something could come back on him, all he would need to do is find someone who doesn't care like at a defcon and tell them where to look anonymously.
Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. (Score:5, Insightful)
I enjoyed the response of Europeans a lot more when they learned their governments were doing the exact same thing. Americans care about this stuff. When people in other countries learn their governments do the exact same things, they try to excuse it then turn the conversation back to America.
Re: Belgium is a NATO member (Score:4, Insightful)
I like your summary there. Interesting that the two countries doing terrible things because groupthink and budget ... are the two with the most thoroughly broken FPTP electoral systems.