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How the NSA Is Harming America's Economy 330

anagama writes "According to an article at Medium, 'Cisco has seen a huge drop-off in demand for its hardware in emerging markets, which the company blames on fears about the NSA using American hardware to spy on the rest of the world. ... Cisco saw orders in Brazil drop 25% and Russia drop 30%. ... Analysts had expected Cisco's business in emerging markets to increase 6%, but instead it dropped 12%, sending shares of Cisco plunging 10% in after-hours trading.' This is in addition to the harm caused to remote services that may cost $35 billion over the next three years. Then, of course, there are the ways the NSA has made ID theft easier. ID theft cost Americans $1.52 billion in 2011, to say nothing of the time wasted in solving ID theft issues — some of that figure is certainly attributable to holes the NSA helped build. The NSA, its policies, and the politicians who support the same are directly responsible for massive losses of money and jobs."
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How the NSA Is Harming America's Economy

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  • tough love (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @12:45PM (#45434171)

    #include "grumpycat"
    printf("good!\n");

    seriously, I would not trust US hardware and software, either.

    but then again, those routers are already at every choke-point on the internet. the US owns the internet (public one, anyway) in all practical ways.

    but for private networks when you can pick which routers and switches you want to deploy, picking a US based vendor would not be wise. I would not do it if I was in charge of a private network.

    maybe its time we consider going back to software (oss) based networking gear. it will be much slower than hardware based ones but we can't verify hardware designs like we can software ones.

    there is also no way to put this genie back into the bottle. once your cred is gone, its gone. and the US has lost ALL cred when it comes to safeguarding your privacy.

    sad but true. as a US citizen, I am sorry for how badly we have botched the world's trust.

  • by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @12:49PM (#45434221) Homepage Journal

    From one perspective some of us do care - they do make stuff that works reasonably well.

    But my suspicion is that there's more to this than just abandoning Cisco. In many cases it's a lot cheaper to set up a router based on a PC and Linux, which probably is what happens in "emerging markets".

    As for the NSA - they could probably do a lot better for the economy if they did put their effort into tracking down and nuking scammers, spammers and other internet pests - and their karma would be better. And they better use the CIA and others to really "take care" of those problems.

  • by larry bagina ( 561269 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @01:00PM (#45434355) Journal
    Look beyond hardware -- think data centers, cloud services, etc. Europeans are dropping American-based offerings for European-based ones or moving it back inhouse.
  • Re:Misleading Title (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 0123456 ( 636235 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @01:02PM (#45434379)

    This isn't just Cisco. No-one can trust US technology any more; they've got from the most trusted on the planet to, at best, no better than the Chinese, in the space of a few months.

  • I'm out! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by snarfies ( 115214 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @01:05PM (#45434415) Homepage

    When SOPA was a looming thing, I was in the market to move from shared hosting to a VPS, and so I made it a point to chose a VPS that was in another country.

    Sadly, I chose the Netherlands, who are NSA collaborators. I'm just waiting for a specific piece of software to be released, and I'm out of there and on to a new server in a new country - I'm thinking Switzerland right now. Iceland is too expensive.

  • by openthomas ( 2759671 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @01:49PM (#45434989)
    These leaks have cost America the trust of an entire generation. In the last few months I deleted my gmail, linkedin, facebook, twitter, ebay and amazon accounts, and when my cellphone dies I won't buy another. If US companies deny their customers the basic human right that is dignity through privacy then it will be to their extreme financial loss. Personally I want no part of what these services have to offer because they do not respect me as a individual. I don't trust the hardware, the software, the services, the network, the companies or the government. And google can stick glass up their ass.
  • by Emetophobe ( 878584 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @02:13PM (#45435321)

    Not just the NSA, but the TSA aswell. Myself and many other Canadians that I know refuse to vacation in the States anymore because of the invasive border checks.

  • by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @02:24PM (#45435473)

    Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Apple all go bankrupt at once because of this.

    That is extremely unlikely. What is more plausible, however, is:

    1. They continue to lose the confidence of international customers.

    2. Those customers seek alternative arrangements that they consider more trustworthy, possibly ad-hoc ones at first.

    3. Over time, a new generation of more structured alternatives begins to develop to supply the new market demand, offering similar services and products to the big name US brands.

    Some of these may be direct commercial competitors, but that's not really the concern for the current market leaders, because the barrier to entry for anyone trying to compete head-on is huge. Probably the greater risk is collaborative movements, whether Open Source tools or simply a degree of standardisation and compatibility between smaller vendors that means you can build (for example) a heterogenous network using a pool of specialist vendors and have a good chance of it working.

    This is potentially toxic to broad US vendors such as Cisco in the networking space or the big cloud services companies who ideally want you to outsource almost your entire IT infrastructure to them alone. Which brings us on to...

    4. Even in the US, long-time and lucrative customers start second-guessing whether they still need US IT Brand X, and those brands start losing serious money to both the foreign movements and, over time, also to new competitors in the US who are riding the open/collaboration wave to get a disruptive foothold in the market.

    And at that point, the big US vendors are really in trouble.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @02:48PM (#45435749)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:tough love (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, 2013 @02:57PM (#45435857)
    The notion that the United States had but two atomic bombs to use against Japan at the end of WWII is false. By August 1945, both the plutonium bomb complex at Handford, Washington and the uranium bomb works at Oak Ridge, Tennessee were in full production mode. According to Captain Don Albury, who flew in both atomic missions, a third atomic bomb was already in the pipeline---I believe at Wendover, Utah---soon after Nagasaki. He told me personally in July 2002 that Kokura was the target of the third atomic mission. Kokura had actually been the primary target of the Nagasaki mission; not many casual readers of history know that the B-29 carrying Fat Man actually made several attempts at finding Kokura through cloud cover and what may have been manmade fog coming up from power plants located on the rivers near the city. It was only after failing at this that the decision was made to bomb the secondary target: Nagasaki. You can read more details about the rate of US atomic bomb production in the excellent book Working on the Bomb. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17428 [axishistory.com]

    A final note: the annual production capacity of the Oak Ridge uranium bomb works was between 2 and 4 U-235 bombs. Thus, another Little Boy would not have been ready until November or December of 1945, assuming sufficient stocks of uranium were available from which U-235---highly enriched, bomb grade uranium---could be manufactured. (I have seen some authors dispute exactly how much uranium the US actually had at war's end; it may be that this is the source of the oft-repeated and totally mistaken idea that there were only 2 US bombs in all.) However, the Hanford plutonium works was capable of much greater production. According to a memo written by Leslie Groves and Robert Oppenheimer to General George Marshall, by the time Operation OLYMPIC, the US invasion of Japan, was due to commence in November, 1945, there would have been as many as twelve (12) P-239 Fat Man bombs available for use. Marshall wanted to use 9 of them as tactical nukes against the landing areas of Kyushu, the southernmost Japanese Home Island which was the target of the US invasion.

    And for more clarification if any is needed, the oil refinery attack bombing of the Nippon Oil Refinery at Tsuchizaki near Akita, 300 miles north of Tokyo, six days after the bombing of Nagasaki, was part of a maximum conventional bombing effort that was ordered when Japan still did not surrender in the days immediately following the second atomic mission. While the parts for a third atomic bomb were already being assembled and were in fact in the pipeline for delivery on target, a third atomic mission never took place. The last aerial bombardments of the war were conventional, not nuclear, attacks.

  • Re:tough love (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mprx ( 82435 ) on Friday November 15, 2013 @03:18PM (#45436105)
    There's a strong argument that the real reason for Japan's surrender was the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, which happened at the same time. You'll note that the Allies did a lot of damage to Japanese cities with conventional weapons without forcing surrender. The firebombing of Tokyo caused similar damage to the bombs. The bombs however were a convenient excuse to avoid losing face, because unlike the Manchuria campaign they couldn't be blamed on Japanese military incompetance.

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