What the Surveillance State Does With Your Private Data 81
Lasrick writes "Conor Friedersdorf at the Atlantic writes up a new report (and infographic) from the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School. 'What the Government Does With Americans' Data' is the best single attempt I've seen to explain all of the ways that surveillance professionals are collecting, storing, and disseminating private data on U.S. citizens. The report's text and helpful flow-chart illustrations run to roughly 50 pages. Unless you're already one of America's foremost experts on these subjects, it is virtually impossible to read this synthesis without coming away better informed.."
Cough (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless you're already one of America's foremost experts on these subjects,
Okay first, two things: Other countries are doing this too. Their experts are not any less 'expert-y' than the USA is. In fact, I'm betting they can at least build a data center that doesn't spontaniously shoot lightning at the equipment and catch fire. Soo... sorry but maybe you need to just stick with "expert" without the qualifier there, mate.
Second, why do you have to be a "foremost expert" on this? I see plenty of people in this thread that know everything! *cough* But more seriously; You don't have to work for the government, or be a security expert, to figure out how they use the data. Look at what they have access to, look at their stated goals, then forget the stated goals and look at what they're actually trying to do and have done... and it's easy-peasy:
They're supplying the internet with limitless porn captured from surveillance footage. Duh. Where do you think all the crappy amateur pics come from?
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Operation CHAOS, the new FISA era, retrospective telco immunity, the emerging domestic Fusion centres, use of National Security letters, domestic bulk database
searches (40 years of data if terror related), the new style of evidence needed vs old legal protections, profiling, sharing, data retention numbers (years, 30 years),
sneak and peek, 'interviews', DHS, TECS (was Treasury Enforcement Communication System), your data for 75 years, biometrics, policy on US domestic email searc
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Okay first, two things: Other countries are doing this too.
And blah, blah blah. You sound exactly like the sheep that go on about "Well, if you're doing nothing wrong...", an argument I always reject out of hand.
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And blah, blah blah. You sound exactly like the sheep that go on about "Well, if you're doing nothing wrong...", an argument I always reject out of hand.
Umm... da fuq you smoking dude? This is about the author's assertion that an American expert would be better than a Non-American expert. It's pure patriotism without any supporting facts to go along with it. In fact, the facts we have suggest other countries have experts on this sort of thing too. Other countries are doing this sort of thing. As much as America is.
How the hell do you get from a rebuttal of blind patriotism to "herp a derp sheep herp herp ... doing nothing wrong. hurrr durr" ?!
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Perhaps an American is more likely to be expert in the names and details of secret (until Snowden) American surveillance programs?
It saves it, of course (Score:5, Insightful)
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Exactly.
Big brother wants to collect it for "fighting terrorism" and they are completely against legal provisions preventing the data from being used for any other reason. But at the end of the day, they can and WILL use it for anything they want to use it against you for, just like any other fascist police state.
ALWAYS require a trial by JURY, and if you are a Juror, and you care about the freedom in this country, then you must rule in favor of those exercising their constitutional rights.
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This is probably why Israel is able to have such coercive power over American politicians, since all data siphoned from Americans is provided to Israeli intelligence unredacted, on the honor-system that Israel will do a good job of censoring the material themselves. It's funny how the mainstream media covered the other Snowden leaks, but stayed silent about this one.
Yeah, smart move - good for National Security. This is probably what Michael Hastings stumbled upon before his untimely execution.
-- Ethanol
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Send a text 10 years ago trying to find a hooker? Potentially end your political career. Shut down the government and risk world-wide economic collapse, possibly as even your stated goal? Get ready to be re-elected.
Honestly, though, considering just how far politicians go to be elected and how much they're willing to smear their competitor, the real question is why aren't more of these supposed texts leaked anyways? If all it takes is 140-characters or less of text to blackmail Mr. Congressman, how coul
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So it can leverage everything against you sometime in the future.
As the Miranda act states you have the right to remain silent only if you specifically invoke those rights prior to interregation. The question is, when does the interregation begin? Do you really get to know about the double secret probation or do you find out on your way to the gallows?
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20-30 years from now...Somalia is considered a world leader and the US becomes the "third world" shit hole.
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Go live in Somalia then! There's no government to spy on you there! All you people who want to keep your civil rights safe from the government should go live in Somalia.
Go to prison then! Free housing, free food, free healthcare, and lots of security! All you people who want to keep your government entitlements at all costs should go live in prison.
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I strongly suspect you missed some sarcasm in there. (Poe's Law being what it is, I can't be sure...)
If not, then you've almost certainly been trolled.
Either way... YHL. HAND.
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I know, man! What the hell was so wrong with "Someone else has to pay my bills!" As long as I was one of the people who was getting free ER, the system was perfect! Sure, the Democrats would keep labelling me a "taker" and the ones with jobs always scowled at me because of the higher taxes they had to pay to keep the hospitals open, but other than that, it was a sweet system, totally based on True Fairness (subsidies). Now these su
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Yeah, like they're not keeping ALL the data forever.
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Sure they're not.
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And the tax and (newly invasive) healthcare records?
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LOVEINT is a thing. NSA lied to congress. They were doing this without approval prior to the Patriot Act. The statistics are lies unless significant evidence to the contrary is provided, the less extraordinary claim shall prevail, according to the Razor of Occam: They are deceptive liars and their words should not be believed.
5 years is just long enough to check my interest in political parties. We have a secret ballot for a reason. The spying must end, where is the hard, peer reviewed evidence that su
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Short answer ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The short answer is "anything they damned well want to".
If in 10 years they need to dig up dirt on you, they'll have it. If they want to question you because you knew someone with a criminal past, they will.
They're collecting it for terrorism reasons, but using for anything else they damned well please.
Nobody gets it (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't believe that nobody gets this yet. Sure, the data can be used for blackmail, intimidation, or extortion. But that's merely a bonus to them, the icing on the cake. It's not the reason they wanted a surveillance state in the first place.
The real value of the data isn't the data itself -- it's how much it justifies in government spending. We are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars per year. It doesn't matter where the money goes, or what comes of it. What matters is that it passes through their hands, giving them the opportunity to leverage that cash flow for personal gain.
The real story here is even more despicable than blackmail, intimidation, and extortion. The real story is greed, and the power of coercive authority being used to satisfy that greed. They are after money, period.
As demonstrated over and over again throughout history, power is merely a stepping stone to riches.
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You've got it backwards. Money is a stepping stone to power. These guys are after power, not necessarily monetary wealth. Currency always collapses sooner or later. The real rush is abusing your power, raping young children, lying in congress and the media, starting wars, and then getting away with it!
Plus it pays off to rub other people's backs that don't have that power accessible in first person.
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As demonstrated over and over again throughout history, power is merely a stepping stone to riches
And vice-versa.
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> They're collecting it for terrorism reasons
An interesting phrase in that it runs both ways.
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for example say you have an unfavorable opinion of the government. perhaps that unfavorable opinion has been discovered and lets say the G20 or G8 is coming to your neighborhood. You've printed off a few dozen peaceful protest signs and plan to head to the streets, when Mr Doe and Mr Cardholder show up at your door with a few questions and you're 'detained' for them. I guess we missed the protest now, didnt we? now what if all your friends enjoyed the same fate?
This has already happened at a few school board meetings. In one case a guy was asking questions at the end of the meeting and the school board had him arrested. He was charged with assaulting a police officer. A few days later, they dropped the charges and cut him lose. But he had missed the opportunity to address the school board. man arrested [wbaltv.com]
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TL;DR summary (Score:2)
"All your data belong to us. We'll use it any way we damn well want, Citizen. Now go back to work so you can pay taxes."
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FTFY
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[Sigh] OK. Back to my crappy job at Rocky Mountain Power in Bluffdale, Utah.
Let me give this knob on the substation voltage regulator a spin and see what happens.
Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
I stopped at the little "info-graphic". Where's the DEA? We've already heard about their Special Operations Division [slashdot.org] and how it hides the true sources of intelligence from defendants. So I'm going to doubt that this article covers the entire scope of information sharing. It may be accurate, but I think there are still a lot of holes.
And what about unofficial information sharing? Got a buddy in the FBI? What to know what your business competitors are up to? No problem. We have their files right here.
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Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Interesting)
The other thing that bothers me: The graphic shows an information flow out from the NCTC to the Treasury Department. Now, I understand information flowing in. Who is funding which terrorists*. But there is no conceivable enforcement action that the Treasury/IRS can take in a terrorism case.
*In theory. Practically, a major terrorist attack (think 9/11) can easily be funded by a very small cash flow compared to typical corporate expenditures. Nobody spotted Bernie Madoff. The money he took that they still can't find could theoretically create an endowment that could support a few terrorist cells in perpetuity.
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But there is no conceivable enforcement action that the Treasury/IRS can take in a terrorism case
Isn't that how they took down the mobsters, though? I'm sure the government figures they can use whatever weapons they've got.
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But there is no conceivable enforcement action that the Treasury/IRS can take in a terrorism case.
The Treasury Department is the one that requests that foreign-held (and domestically-held) assets of suspected terrorists and other criminals be frozen. That probably won't stop an attack in progress as part of an emergency counter-response, but it severely hampers the ability to plan future attacks and to evade justice for past ones.
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The Treasury Department is the one that requests that foreign-held (and domestically-held) assets of suspected terrorists
That would be a small attache case full of $100 dollar bills. Good luck stopping that.
but it severely hampers the ability to plan future attacks and to evade justice for past ones.
Not really. These people can live in caves. Or as the guest of Pakistan. Good luck drying up a bunch of very small cash flows.
The financial intelligence as an input might be useful. But in the end, the people that do the enforcement and need the information is Seal Team 6.
and other criminals
This is what it boils down to. Searching for my dentist's off shore bank account.
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That would be a small attache case full of $100 dollar bills. Good luck stopping that. ...
Not really. These people can live in caves. Or as the guest of Pakistan. Good luck drying up a bunch of very small cash flows.
I think you have a very... media-cultivated view of how terrorists work. Just because they can survive off the land doesn't mean that they can be effective terrorists while doing so. According to the CIA, al Qaeda had operating expenses in the range of $30 million per year before 9/11. That's not a "small attache case full of $100 dollar bills" enterprise -- that's a major, international criminal enterprise / political movement. We have confiscated hundreds of millions of dollars from them and their maj
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Plenty of people knew about Madoff; it seems their decisions were whether to take the silver dollar or just give it a miss (admittedly some people did ring alarm bells).
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Pages 45, 47, 74, 78 (last two are references).
The title is "What the goverment does with Americans' data", not "How the government gets American's data".
I'm not arguing that what the NSA is doing is not evil, just that is not what this report addresses. However, one glaring omission is data-sharing with the DEA.
For insider trading, ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem partially identified (Score:3)
Exactly, anyone familiar with this: http://www.mpp.org/our-work/campaigns/drug-czar/gao-rejects-us-rep-pauls.html [mpp.org]
Who then has watched the news media just lap up every word the ONDCP puts out as if the drug czar was reading the word of god off golden tablets for them; knows this is nothing new, but is a huge problem.
These people get way more credibility than they rightly deserve.
Uses it to control you (Score:1)
You're that face.
Terrorism and our situation (Score:5, Insightful)
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
As vague as I'm being, I know that I am still presenting a level of paranoia that is completely insane... or am I? It sounds crazy now, and I hope it is.
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I was just about to post something similar. The full PDF report [brennancenter.org] implies that all this we see in the USA now was brought about by the events of 11 Sep 2001. I believe this is disingenuous since it artificially ties surveillance to terrorism. By making even a slight connection, people would tend to approve of the situation, even if tacitly.
It's true that the Department of Homeland Security was created after the attacks, however we would be lying to ourselves if we were to believe the machine was not already i
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Little did Madison know about "personal income tax" and, because that just was not bad enough, "universal health care".
To enforce these fine programs, the government needs to know an awful lot about the citizenry... Not just incomes and wealth (the IRS), but also health- and credit-history (Obamacare) of all subjects will soon be at the fingertips of the Executive government...
NSA exists for 3 main reasons (Score:3, Insightful)
ONE (the most important) - to 'read' the mind of the public. Your masters control you via propaganda- control messages disseminated via mainstream media and public schooling. The NSA provides near real-time feedback as to the effectiveness of any given propaganda project, allowing that project to be refined for greater effectiveness, or even aborted (see the recent failure of Obama's intended holocaust of Syria- killed by an inability to gain public support despite a saturated mainstream media project demonising Syria at the time).
TWO- to identify ALL emerging grassroots social and political activity, allowing groups and potential leaders to be co-opted or eliminated BEFORE they reach significant levels of power and/or influence.
THREE- to gather blackmail and coercion intelligence on ALL people in potential positions of power and influence, so they can be 'persuaded' to follow the 'correct' agendas as and when required. The mainstream media, for instance, was created in its modern form as a 'scandal' mechanism to allow the ire of the sheeple to be directed at ANY target designated by those that rule. Assange, and the recent rape scandal that ruined the prospects of one of France's likely next leaders shows this tactic in action.
It should be noted that throughout Human History, intelligence agencies have ALWAYS existed to serve the above three listed agendas. Fighting crime and 'terrorism' (which is almost non-existent outside of state-sponsered terror by nations like the USA, Britain, and Israel) has always been the domain of ordinary policing. NSA full surveillance is about YOU. Who you are, what you think, and who you may become.
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So you worked for them.
Way back when there was an org called the OSI, and some earlier incarnations, the going thread was "All you to topple a government is 3% of the people".
What you posted is *precisely* what the NSA does, if anyone doubts this just Google "The Vengeful Librarians".
Better question, what they don't do with it. (Score:1)
Heck, in my state they even search purses (Score:1)
In my state the Gestapo even searches closed purses.
The out of control Surveillance State is becoming a worse and worse deal every day, right, Wade?
One other thought (Score:1)
If the entire security apparatus is built around you conducting your business, whether it be terrorism or shopping at Amazon, via the Internet then the obvious solution is "Don't use the Internet".
Then what do they have? All the information that has been public for decades.