Guardian Ignores MI5 Warnings, Vows To 'Publish More Snowden Leaks' 301
dryriver writes in with news that a new round of Snowden leaks may be on the way. "Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger says he plans to publish more revelations from Edward Snowden despite MI5 warning that such disclosures cause enormous damage. Mr Rusbridger insisted the paper was right to publish files leaked by the US intelligence analyst and had helped to prompt a necessary and overdue debate. Mr Rusbridger said more stories would be published in the future as the leaked documents were 'slowly and responsibly' worked through. His comments come after criticism from the new head of MI5, Andrew Parker. Making public the 'reach and limits' of intelligence-gathering techniques gave terrorists the advantage, he said. He warned that terrorists now had tens of thousands of means of communication 'through e-mail, IP telephony, in-game communication, social networking, chat rooms, anonymising services and a myriad of mobile apps'. Mr Parker said it was vital for MI5 to retain the capability to access such information if it was to protect the country. "
Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm so tired of using "terrorist" argument and then, when we give them what they want, they turn around and use new powers on own citizens or to oppress members of minor political parties.
enormous damage - but to what? (Score:5, Insightful)
despite MI5 warning that such disclosures cause enormous damage to their image
FTFY!
Enormous damage ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Causes damage ? Sorry for having a different point of view but uncovering the disgusting acts of espionage on the population is a public service showing us how our free world is being transformed by the crooks and criminals we elected. The ones that should be jailed are the officials that led us down this path. They do not want to protect us , they want to protect their asses from being landed in a cold cell.
They are NOT working in our interrest, they are working against the People trying to get a better grip on our lives making us better slaves for our masters.
Fuck em . Publish all you got , get those bastards in jail or execute them. If some of them happen to get killed , so be it , they have waged a war on the People and they knew that the path they led us on was a dangerous one.
let em deal with their mess , i got no pity whatsoever.
Damage to their careers (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite simply the people behind the curtain have long had an attitude of the end justifies the means, so now in exposing them they are getting a taste of their own medicine. The other core pillar of the spying business is that information is power; well by exposing the spies themselves we give power back to the people of the various democracies in question.
But what really boils my butt is that any foreign spy or "actor" who was using any electronic system without assuming that they were being monitored is a fool. And anyone that foolish probably didn't pose much of a threat. From what I gather Osama was found as they tracked the couriers who physically carried messages, which means that he was off the grid as far as his trail was concerned. But the people who do still use electronic communications were people like you and me, combined with organizations and governments who trusted the rest of the world.
So how many trade negotiations were done while the US listened in on the other side figuring out their negotiating positions, how many companies like Siemens might have had business deals or trade secrets handed over to us contractors?
But then it gets potentially worse: How many times did say a Canadian go to negotiate a trade agreement only to find that they had a recording of him and his mistress? How many times did a politician who was causing problems have a tipped off reporter show up for a rendezvous with his mistress? Or even to have the troublesome politician's election strategy handed over to his opponent? Or to have his secret PAC supporters suddenly withdraw their support?
If they are willing to lean on a company that "buys its ink by the barrel" how little reluctance would they have to twist democracy to their needs?
So my guess is that it is not the real baddies who have gone silent but the diplomats, politicians(both domestic and foreign, and large international businesses that are going silent. Personally if I ran a company like Siemens I would be locking up the communications and computer system tighter than a drum.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong optics (Score:5, Insightful)
The spies whine and spin it their way. If what they were doing was so innocuous, uncontroversial and even beneficial then they would be happy to be praised in the press. The fact is what they ware doing is deeply offensive to a large segment of society and they wish to hide it.
As to whether the terrs benefit or not, only the stupid ones might and they probably aren't reading. The non-stupid terrs have known about surveillence since before Echelon and adjust accordingly. They won't even infer any limits because they know the release is vetted to be incomplete.
The real effect of Snowdens releases is to confirm the tinfoil-behatted. Many fringe people have been saying much the same thing for 10+ years and been dismissed as lunatic paranoids. Now it appears they were right. Many people have egg on the face (congentially oblivious).
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Huge Difference (Score:5, Insightful)
no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
I fear my Government more than I fear terrorists.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:2, Insightful)
I see that occurring on Slashdot, along with various claims of "everyone's a terrorist" for some reason or another generally involving disingenuous rhetoric. As a rule I don't see that from government. They seem to be a bit clearer about its meaning.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:2, Insightful)
Such as when you become a registered sexual offender because you pissed on a tree on night.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:3, Insightful)
As a rule I don't see that from government. They seem to be a bit clearer about its meaning.
I guess that might be considered true, since the government feels that the rules don't apply to them, and that "rule" would be no exception. Or you're ignorant of/ignoring the fact that these endless "anti-terrorist" laws are used more often in the clusterfuck that we call "the war on drugs" than against actual terrorists. And that we've already displayed that the government is happy to bypass the law entirely against "actual" terrorists, even if they're citizens, without even pretending or "plausible deniability" anymore.
Yeah... "As a rule", your observation here seems pretty divorced from reality.
Re:Huge Difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Well to put that in perspective, the Russian Intelligence Services already have a complete copy and the Chinese Intelligence Services also have a complete copy, so who exactly are they keeping it secret from. Well, we all know that, the voting public who will be outraged at the invasion of privacy. The financial sector who will be deeply disturbed by global insider trading schemes. Many countries, some of which are meant to be allies of the countries doing the most spying. Terrorist not so much, unless they are starting up some new terminology vote-terrorists those that vote against government who support insane 1984 Orwellian scams. Voters who know too much and most be prevented from contacting other voters, voters unafraid to express their opinions and the very worst of all voters who actively vote against the dictates of the military industrial complex, evil vote-terrorists all over the place.
Re:Dope (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, I think it is unethical to continue releasing the data
And spying on Brazilian companies in the name of fighting terrorism is all good?
Re:Huge Difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorists are real.
So are bathtubs [falkvinge.net], so are stairs and so are traffic accidents, all which cause more lives lost than terrorists.
Any death other than the one of old age is terrible. Accidents happen that cause people to suffer for quite a while before dying. Some people have lost their lives in earthquakes - literally buried alive, waiting days for a rescue that never come. Other people die in house fires in the most horrible agony you might imagine. Therefore, Terrorists do not frighten me any more than an earthquake would.
Oh, sure. Terrorists are horrible people, hell-bent on violating the worst crimes of war possible. They are no stranger to detonating a nuclear bomb in the middle of any decently sized american city. Does that thought scare me? Yes, a bit. But does it make me cower in fear under my bed? No sir. I'm not afraid of these terrorists, because I know that if I'm afraid of them, then I'll always be afraid. The Terrorists have won.
I put my faith in the state to protect me as much as possible from these terrorists, as well as protect my liberties as best can. Unfortunately this paralyzing fear of terrorists have made the state erode my liberties without actually protecting me from terrorists. Therefore, I oppose those changes.
It's not about being stupid or brave. It's about not letting a bunch of jackasses control my life. And as long as I draw breath, they won't.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:5, Insightful)
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, by just about any definition. Doesn't mean he wasn't right.
"We don't negotiate with terrorists!" is a little bit odd coming from people trying to get their photo next to him.
Re:Huge Difference (Score:4, Insightful)
I too have been sick of the fear mongering propaganda complex that has overtaken our society in the past several years.
See, you have to start out with something that will leave the target with the impression you are on their side.
However, there is an enormous gulf between McCarthyism and the terrorist threat. No commies blew up airplanes and buildings. No commies went on shooting sprees in malls. No commies set off car bombs in crowded markets. The pink menace wasn't really very menacing at all. It was a false accusation.
Then you shift to a point that seems reasonable enough; that the target will probably agree with, since you only shifted the focus a little. It's cool since we all agree that the propaganda has gotten really thick (it gets thicker with posts like this one). So we're still on the same team.
Terrorists are real. Terrorist individuals and organizations commit atrocities on a near daily basis and regularly and publicly vow to kill large segments of the population or entire nations. Terrorism, unlike communism in the U.S., is a real threat that must not be ignored. But, that doesn't excuse these governments from using it as the go-to excuse for justifying every infringement of rights and nefarious activity, from banning nail clippers to the brave new world.
Then you deliver the real payload. Yeah, the government goes overboard, but we really do need them to keep us safe. Terrorism is real after all (which no one is disagreeing with) and it must not be ignored. On balance, it's a good thing we have our intelligence agencies to watch out for us. You've earned it today, AC.
Hella big whoosh there, moron. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, analogies are not identical. Well done. Have a bikkit.
However, the term "sexual offender" gives images that do NOT include "pissed on a tree where a police officer could see them".
Much like those that are called terrorist are not actually what is considered by the people who agreed to the laws to be used against terrorists to be terrorists.
Such as people whose dogs poop in the streed and don't clean up the poop.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dope (Score:5, Insightful)
At least there is a possibility of having terrorists among your own people (Hello, Mr. McVeigh!). But spying on foreign companies for advantages in business negotiations is inexcusable on the grounds of "terrorism!" That is really where the bullshit crumbles down.
Re:Dope (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it is unethical to continue releasing the data.
Don't worry, if the government wasn't doing anything wrong then it has nothing to hide.
Or maybe that old line is bullshit and the government knows it. Maybe the right to privacy exists for a reason. Exposing how world governments spy on their people is long overdue. The governments didn't want to have this discussion before, they wanted to keep everything hidden, but they decided to go a little too far so now we need to have the talk.
Re:Liars, liars, pants on fire (Score:4, Insightful)
So were the Founding Fathers of the US. Things tend to change when you win.