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Crime United States

Russia Issues Travel Warning To Its Citizens About United States and Extradition 369

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the about-that-cold-war dept.
mendax writes "The New York Times reports that the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States, noting that 'detentions of Russian citizens in various countries, at the request of American law enforcement, have become more frequent.' The article reports the Russian foreign ministry as saying,'Experience shows that the judicial proceedings against those who were in fact kidnapped and taken to the U.S. are of a biased character, based on shaky evidence, and clearly tilted toward conviction.'"
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Russia Issues Travel Warning To Its Citizens About United States and Extradition

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:03PM (#44743043)

    Not too long ago that most people in the US would be worried about Russia being the bad guy in such situations.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Times are always changing.

      Russian citizens are stealing many millions of dollars, mostly from US banks and citizens. The Russian authorities won't stop them and won't extradite them. Now they are complaining when USA law enforcement issues warrants for their arrest and other countries act on those warrants.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by sjwt (161428)

        Can you blame Russia for not extraditing their citizens for offences of only several million dollars thats what, about what 5 MP3s worth of value?

        The whole world is sick of this rubbish.

      • by Charliemopps (1157495) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @09:47AM (#44746379)

        While there are certainly Russians that should be extradited to the US to stand trial, it's the United States that's abused their extradition powers, falsified evidence, and flat out lied to participating countries in order to arrest those whom there is little to no evidence against and are often being persecuted for political reasons. Remember, we have the highest incarceration rate in, not only the world, but all of human history. With that kind of record you have to see how a lot of countries would see our judicial system as a bit suspect as well. The Russians may protect their ultra rich from prosecution but we do exactly the same thing. To this day, not a single executive from the whole 2008 banking mess has even been indited, simply because the justice department didn't want to upset the markets. We are certainly no better than the Russians when it comes to justice, we're probably even worse.

      • Russian citizens are stealing many millions of dollars, mostly from US banks and citizens.

        As a Russian citizen, I take offense at this claim. The criminals in question are not stealing many millions of dollars from US banks and citizens. They're stealing millions of dollars mostly from Russian citizens, and otherwise screwing our country up. At the same time, they send their children to study and work in US, because they don't want their kids to live in the mess they have themselves created. Denying them the ability to do so is an efficient deterrent, and so I fully support and encourage US to p

    • Bah (Score:5, Insightful)

      by frovingslosh (582462) on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:31PM (#44743189)
      Pay it no attention. Next thing you know the Ruskies will claim that America spies on its own citizens.
    • by Darinbob (1142669)

      Russia still is a bad guy in these situations. This just makes for a good diversion for them.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @04:47AM (#44744647)

        I hate to break it to you but both nations of the cold war were bad guys and they (or their successors in the case of the Soviet Union) still are. Old trick of using external "foes" for control and limiting dissent and its impact. The meaningful major challenge as always is in creating and implementing reforms and making them stick to prevent backsliding to the bad old days.

  • by ulatekh (775985) on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:08PM (#44743075) Homepage Journal

    Experience shows that the judicial proceedings against those who were in fact kidnapped and taken to the U.S. are of a biased character, based on shaky evidence, and clearly tilted toward conviction.

    Yeah, Russia's the expert on that.

    Still, it's amazing that the U.S. has become such a totalitarian police state that Russia can legitimately give them crap.

    • by LandDolphin (1202876) on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:30PM (#44743177)
      The fact that you would call the US a Totalitarian Police State means that you have very little understanding of the a Totalitarian Police State actually is.

      Is the US doing things it shouldn't be (Spying on its citizens, TSA, etc.), sure. But that is far from Soviet Union, North Korea, Nazi Germany. You know, actual Totalitarian Police States.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jmd (14060)

        I would agree that we live in a police state now. But no one has tested it yet. But everything is in place. Give it some time and we'll all look back and say *oh shit*

        • by jkauzlar (596349) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @02:31AM (#44744109) Homepage

          I would agree that we live in a police state now. But no one has tested it yet

          He has a good point. Not sure why he was modded down to 1. Elliot Spitzer is a good example of someone who posed a direct threat to Wall Street and suddenly its discovered that he visited prostitutes and our establishment media uses it to destroy his career. I wouldn't say everything is in place just yet, however, because at some levels we still have a functioning democracy. The most important thing is to use what's left of it to get the influence of big money out of government as best we can.

          • by alexo (9335)

            at some levels we still have a functioning democracy

            No, you don't.
            Allowing you to choose between Kang and Kodos every 4 years does not a functioning democracy make.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:41PM (#44743233)

        Forgot GITMO and the number of people detained there without ever having seen a judge, or a lawyer?

        A country where you can be taken off the street without any cause, just by labeling you a 'terrorist' sounds just like the Soviet Union, North Korea and Nazi Germany..

        • by stenvar (2789879)

          Forgot GITMO and the number of people detained there without ever having seen a judge, or a lawyer?

          That's little different from the imprisonment refugees suffer in places like Germany and Australia. Australia has even set up extraterritorial detention camps in places like Nauru.

          A country where you can be taken off the street without any cause, just by labeling you a 'terrorist' sounds just like the Soviet Union, North Korea and Nazi Germany..

          If you are considered a threat to national security, you can be ta

        • by AmiMoJo (196126) *

          Not just a country, the US will try to grab you anywhere in the world. It's a scandal, my government should be shooting down CIA jets that enter our airspace to kidnap people.

      • by nbauman (624611) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @12:07AM (#44743389) Homepage Journal

        A totalitarian state is one in which people used to say, "It can't happen here."

      • by stenvar (2789879)

        Is the US doing things it shouldn't be (Spying on its citizens, TSA, etc.), sure. But that is far from Soviet Union, North Korea, Nazi Germany. You know, actual Totalitarian Police States.

        And it is, in fact, not very different from what many other nations are already doing. Modern Germany, France, the UK, and lots of other nations have been spying on their citizens for decades and are still much more intrusive into their citizens' personal lives than even the US under Obama.

      • by Dr. Evil (3501) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @03:37AM (#44744403)

        North Korea and Nazi Germany are/were military dictatorships. In a military dictatorship, there's no pretense of due process. There is one leader and if you cross them, you suffer the consequences. East Germany was very much a police state, but one could argue that it was under the control of the USSR and not that unique an example.

        I think categorically denying that the U.S. is a police state is dangerous. Something very unhealthy is happening in the U.S.. People don't even feel free to talk openly about it anymore. Names are being taken down via social media and citizens are being secretly spied upon without due process. The pretense of due process is still there. Guantanamo is considered "different" and the DHS operates in a space which is also "an exception". The government still feels it needs to explain its actions to the media.

      • by alexo (9335)

        The fact that you would call the US a Totalitarian Police State means that you have very little understanding of the a Totalitarian Police State actually is.

        Is the US doing things it shouldn't be (Spying on its citizens, TSA, etc.), sure. But that is far from Soviet Union, North Korea, Nazi Germany. You know, actual Totalitarian Police States.

        A "Totalitarian State" strives to have total control of its subjects. A "Totalitarian Police State" utilizes the police to achieve that objective.
        The states you mentioned (Soviet Union, North Korea, Nazi Germany) used violent means on a large scale to achieve such control but the US does not need to. It can use different tactics to achieve its objectives.

        Let's try an example:

        1) You're in elementary school. Bobby, the schoolyard bully, wants your lunch. If you don't give it to him, he and his friends wil

    • by jrumney (197329)

      Yeah, Russia's the expert on that.

      Why practice extra-ordinary rendition when you can invite your victim over for some polonium tea.

  • by wrackspurt (3028771) on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:13PM (#44743099)
    Once not long ago I would have laughed now I'm just sad.
  • Not that Russia was ever a major ally to the US, but more and more countries are ceasing to put up with the hostile nature of the US's foreign relations policy. The US is failing in all sorts of relations due to its policies on copyrights, "terrorism," worthless wars and drug enforcement, and increasingly, other nations are no longer putting up with it.

    Throughout its history, the US has more or less never had any interest in the well-being of other nations they enter relations with. Of course, you could perhaps say this is true of all nations. However, if the US is going to be so self-centered in its relations, then the best thing for the world is for them to have less of an influence in strong-arming other nations into agreeing with them. This influence historically has come largely from dominating economic pressure, but we'll see if it lasts - hopefully it doesn't. The last thing the world needs is to become more like the US.

    • Actually, this article is about how other countries are assisting the US against Russia.
    • by jsepeta (412566)

      Bush opened the door to a hostile foreign policy, which Obama and his minions (Clinton, Kerry) have continued.

  • by swillden (191260) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:43PM (#44743245) Homepage Journal

    Most likely this is crap, just political gamesmanship, but the sad thing is that US actions and policies have given the country such a shady reputation that everyone has to at least give it a good look.

  • by He Who Has No Name (768306) on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:43PM (#44743247)

    These are the kinds of warnings WE used to give about RUSSIAN satellite nations.

    This is all turning into a bad dream...

    • by nbauman (624611)

      All during the cold war, when somebody would criticize violations of human rights in America, our leaders would point to the USSR and tell us that in Russia it was even worse.

      Most of our cold-war propaganda was based on making Russia's lack of freedom a caricature of our own lack of freedom.

      For example, our propagandists said that in Russia, people weren't free to travel. (Not true. I've met people who grew up in the Soviet Block and traveled all over the Soviet Block. East Germany was a popular vacation sp

  • I sure hope so (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stenvar (2789879) on Monday September 02, 2013 @11:59PM (#44743347)

    I sure hope that if the US goes through the trouble of extraditing someone, its case is "biased towards conviction".

  • by dunkindave (1801608) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @12:07AM (#44743387)
    The summary says "the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States", but the article says:

    "The Russian Foreign Ministry posted advice of a somewhat different nature on Monday, cautioning people wanted by the United States not to visit nations that have an extradition treaty with it."

    Unfortunately, that small omission significantly changes the meaning of the line.
  • by SuperBanana (662181) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @01:44AM (#44743871)

    ...they arrest gay people simply for being gay, and have threatened to arrest gay athletes [reddit.com].

    This man fled Russia because of the reaction to his paintings of Putin in lingerie: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/fearing-retribution-artist-behind-putin-lingerie-painting-leaves-russia/279181/ [theatlantic.com]

    It's easy to take this as an opportunity to denigrate the US. The level of corruption is far worse in Russia and the civil rights protections a fraction of what US citizens enjoy.

    If Snowdon has been Russian and escaped with FSB documents, he wouldn't be alive right now. In case nobody noticed, Russia assassinates inconvenient people.

    • by jsepeta (412566)

      in Putin's Russia, you can be arrested for voicing political dissent, especially with regard to the state-controlled media. That's not exactly the freedom we know and love here in America, where the major news shows refuse to promote true and open dissent, and would rather feature the FUCKING KARDASHIANS ON A "NEWS" SHOW.

    • by isorox (205688)

      ...they arrest gay people simply for being gay, and have threatened to arrest gay athletes [reddit.com].

      This man fled Russia because of the reaction to his paintings of Putin in lingerie: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/fearing-retribution-artist-behind-putin-lingerie-painting-leaves-russia/279181/ [theatlantic.com]

      It's easy to take this as an opportunity to denigrate the US. The level of corruption is far worse in Russia and the civil rights protections a fraction of what US citizens enjoy.

      If Snowdon has been Russian and escaped with FSB documents, he wouldn't be alive right now. In case nobody noticed, Russia assassinates inconvenient people.

      It's just a shame that the U.S. with it's anti-freedom policies is no longer the obvious opposite to the dictatorship. There's enough doubt in the mind of U.S. supporters to subconsciously equate both countries as being against the people, despite the fact Russia is so much worse.

      America used to be land of the free, home of the brave. A place to aspire to, a place to look up to.

      That all changed because of an old man living in a cave who killed fewer people in September 2001 (3000) than died on america's roa

  • by Begemot (38841) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @02:34AM (#44744121)

    Why not let US have them?

  • Very much "pot calling kettle"... USA and Russia are both famously historically "guilty" of this, as well as accusing each other of this.

    however, all of the signs of psychological projection, in the more precise dialect.

    *aside* even considering that, it's still safer to do business in the USA, for the most part. At least the illegal detentions, seizures, etc actually are well enough documented that folks who are at risk can usually avoid entering. Russia's still not very much into the concept of "free speech".
  • by korbulon (2792438) on Tuesday September 03, 2013 @03:29AM (#44744383)
    Is the realization that the differences between Russia and the US are no longer a matter of type, but of degree.

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