Russia Issues Travel Warning To Its Citizens About United States and Extradition 369
mendax writes "The New York Times reports that the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States, noting that 'detentions of Russian citizens in various countries, at the request of American law enforcement, have become more frequent.' The article reports the Russian foreign ministry as saying,'Experience shows that the judicial proceedings against those who were in fact kidnapped and taken to the U.S. are of a biased character, based on shaky evidence, and clearly tilted toward conviction.'"
Biased charges, clearly tilted toward conviction (Score:5, Interesting)
Experience shows that the judicial proceedings against those who were in fact kidnapped and taken to the U.S. are of a biased character, based on shaky evidence, and clearly tilted toward conviction.
Yeah, Russia's the expert on that.
Still, it's amazing that the U.S. has become such a totalitarian police state that Russia can legitimately give them crap.
Re:In Soviet Russia.. (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a joke, but it's hardly funny. The joke is that the Russians are warning their people about America in the same way that America warned it's citizens about Russia in the 70's and 80's.
The American government has a very low level of support from everyone. Also, I'm sure that in many countries, the government has been noted to shit-talk America. Why is their so much more hype suddenly since the Snowden leak(s), and Syria's civil war? Everyone's worried about war. I know people of sane mind and body, that are preparing by stocking up on canned goods. And it's the American government that they're scared of, and it's mutated mentality of destruction of anything that it deems "bad" in the light of the moment only. Who wouldn't be afraid of such a government?
It's totally sane of any country to warn it's people about not having basic human rights in America. It used to be a kick-ass place to visit. Now, not so much.
Re:In Soviet Russia.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The article cited Victor Bout. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout [wikipedia.org]
Bout was an arms dealer who sold to both sides, as arms dealers, including Americans, often do.
I don't like arms dealers, but they're in a legal and sometimes necessary business.
They arrested somebody who couldn't break American law because he was never in America and wasn't a citizen.
I don't like Dick Cheney or Eric Prince either, and they've broken the law just as much as Bout did.
The U.S. never extradited Luis Posada, who bombed a Cuban civilian airliner and killed everybody on board, including a soccer team, despite many requests, and the U.S. never prosecuted Posada itself.
Let's follow the law and put them all in jail. Or ignore the law and don't put anybody in jail. But don't just enforce (dubious extraterritorial) laws against a Russian and not against Americans.
Re:Times have changed. (Score:5, Interesting)
yes
Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't understand how we could legally arrest Bout. He wasn't a citizen of the U.S., he was never in the U.S., and he never committed a crime on U.S. soil.
He was a citizen of a country that often supported the side opposite of ours in conflicts, but that's not a crime.
Kissinger gave material support to regimes that were committing war crimes. If Russia wants to prosecute Kissinger, would we be legally required to turn him over? If Kissinger's airplane was forced to stop in Russia, could the Russians arrest him?
Maybe you don't believe in following international law. Maybe you believe in realpolitik and might makes right. OK, but you no longer have grounds for moral outrage when a militant group sets off a truck full of dynamite outside your embassy. They're just playing by the same rules you are.
Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (Score:5, Interesting)
He has a good point. Not sure why he was modded down to 1. Elliot Spitzer is a good example of someone who posed a direct threat to Wall Street and suddenly its discovered that he visited prostitutes and our establishment media uses it to destroy his career. I wouldn't say everything is in place just yet, however, because at some levels we still have a functioning democracy. The most important thing is to use what's left of it to get the influence of big money out of government as best we can.
Re:In Soviet Russia.. (Score:5, Interesting)
> They arrested somebody who couldn't break American law because he was never in America and wasn't a citizen.
According to the Wikipedia page you quote, he was arrested for smuggling arms to FARC for use by rebels in Columbia against US troops.
Assuming he did supply arms to the enemy of an ally, that still doesn't break US law, nor does it make him a war criminal. The arms supplier of your enemy isn't a war criminal, and someone who does something out of your jurisdiction is, like it or not, free from your prosecutors.
TLDR; US forces has no legal standing to arrest, convict or detain their enemies arms suppliers.
Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (Score:4, Interesting)
Dude... look up the word RENDITION. Dirty deeds done in the dark of night cheap. A whole lot of innocent people enjoyed the hospitality of middle eastern prisons on Uncle Sam's dime.
Re:Times have changed. (Score:3, Interesting)
Can you blame Russia for not extraditing their citizens for offences of only several million dollars thats what, about what 5 MP3s worth of value?
The whole world is sick of this rubbish.
Re:Shaky? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would argue that this provides an opportunity for our government to either show the warrants are not "shaky" but the result of good police procedure with sound probable cause arguments, or if they are not get rid of the bad agents and impeach the bad judges. This would enhance our people's faith in good just law enforcement and strengthen our society.
As it is today, given everything else that has come out recently and all the lies Uncle Sam has been caught in on these subjects; I am more incline to take the Russians at there word. Consequently it makes it a tougher environment for law enforcement when they can't count on cooperation form their fellow cotizens
Re:Times have changed. (Score:4, Interesting)
Mind you that song was from about a decade before the Iraq War.