France To Open Preliminary Investigation About PRISM Program 98
An anonymous reader writes "Paris' prosecutor office opened a preliminary investigation after a complaint by two human rights associations who hope to determine the roles played by companies in the PRISM program. Two million communications (phone calls, SMS and mails) are said to have been intercepted in France by U.S. agencies."
It's a farce (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't this just for show, or getting some benefits from the USA? I'm under the impression that a lot of earopean members are already using intel from prism and in exchange the USA gets access to the network. The only shocking thing is that they also listen in on political and businesss conversations.
Re:It's a farce (Score:4, Insightful)
They might be using the information, but that doesn't mean the court system won't find it to be illegal.
Basically the best end result of this would be if MS, Google, et al. get hit with huge fines. Then pressure to stop or limit the programs would come from someone with real power over the US government.
Re:Human Rights voliations (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly, people are the same everywhere. And this new trend to just lay down and take it has become almost universal. Once a nation becomes industrialized enough and people have enough comfort they will never fight back for fear of losing that comfort. It's really the best way to enslave humans. Just let their own natural lethargy keep them in check. Sure there will be chest beating and spin doctors will cry outrage... but in the end, the people will just go home, turn on the tube and tune out the life they have.
Re:Human Rights voliations (Score:4, Insightful)
They won't actually do anything about it. No one ever does anymore. It's not just the States either.
Sadly, people are the same everywhere. And this new trend to just lay down and take it has become almost universal. Once a nation becomes industrialized enough and people have enough comfort they will never fight back for fear of losing that comfort. It's really the best way to enslave humans. Just let their own natural lethargy keep them in check. Sure there will be chest beating and spin doctors will cry outrage... but in the end, the people will just go home, turn on the tube and tune out the life they have.
So this is your excuse for not doing anything?
Re:It's a farce (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm under the impression that a lot of earopean members are already using intel from prism and in exchange the USA gets access to the network.
The may be the first impression, but nothing is that simple. As everything is under the veil of secrecy (which is now open with the leaks), those using the information or ordering the use of information had most likely no idea how this information was obtained. They had probably as little idea on how the information they exchanged in return was acquired as well.
Its possible that they were in position where they could have known, but secret information is not release on a "per you might want to know this basis", but on a "need to know basis". That means that the person ordering the exchange or use of information, even if he has the correct security clearances, won't have a clue how the information is acquired unless that person specifically asks for it. And then the person asking would probably get obfuscated details not giving any useful info, unless again the right questions are asked. In the end, it's easier not to ask and act with the eyes closed.
And don't even think about asking how the information from another intelligence service was obtained.
This is a very complex synergy between intelligence organization and deciders. The intelligence organization do what they do probably not even because they are asked to, but because they feel they need to. On the other side, the people receiving the intelligence are happy with what they get and they probably never asked for anything specific or for the use of any specific source and might keep their eyes closed further under the thought "they have probably done the thing they do the right way".
This presumption goes through all levels up and up to the exchanges between intelligence organization. Its quite naive I would say.
And its not really a defensible attitude when the information you have for you can't possibly be acquired legally.
The only shocking thing is that they also listen in on political and businesss conversations.
Schocking, put predictable. Once you have broken the most basic laws and conventions, why stop at "terrorist"? You're already over the line. You've been over the line on a regular basis and you know the mean are not justifiable by the needs every time you cross this line.
It's like being shocked after learning that a hit man that killed dozens of Russians for the Italians had killed a police office for the Italian. Suddenly its an outrage and something has to be done. Its shocking.... but it's just another step of over that same line.
Re:Human Rights voliations (Score:5, Insightful)
For the real changes to come there must be a small percentage of unhappy "elite", like bourgeois in France or "intelligentsya / intellectuals" in Russia. Then they can lead masses to the revolution that will bring real changes. Problem is, our current elites are trying to use and even exploit existing systems of government, instead of trying to change it completely. So, yes, we won't have any real revolutionary changes in the foreseeable future, but not because of the "tubes". It's because everybody with the real power (even "middle class") are really happy with the current state of things.
They're Jealous (Score:2, Insightful)
France constantly ranks up near the top in nations where the State facilitates or actively participates in corporate espionage.
They were one of the first countries to pass a "key disclosure law", allowing law enforcement to demand people decrypt data.
Encryption in France has always been tightly controlled and even today it is permitted only for authentication and integrity. Confidentiality is essentially at the whim of the gov't.
France ranks right up there with China as far as many U.S. gov't agencies are concerned when it comes to "make sure the cloud data doesn't ever transit there".
They're just jealous and are looking for tips.
Re:Human Rights voliations (Score:5, Insightful)
How about you? What's your excuse for not getting off your fat ass?
Re:Human Rights voliations (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's very difficult to get people to risk that comfort now. It's nearly impossible actually. A paranoid person may think that it's designed that way to keep it all on the side of those in power. Hell, even the unhappy elite as you point out are not unhappy enough anymore to take that risk. They've been given too comfortable a leash.
If just one group in the USA said NO tomorrow and stopped working you could cripple the entire country in under two weeks. If just all the sales people, or all the nurses, or all the IT support staff... I'll give you an ideal group: Semi-truck drivers. There are less than 100k. And if they stopped driving and took their distributor caps when they went home there would be no food, water, gas, heat, or power in the entire US in about two weeks. I'd imagine if they had a list of just 10 reasonable demands those would be met in no time. If they were willing to risk it.
But... they'd get the phone calls to tell them go back to work or I'm sharing your online history with your wife. Or one of them would have their money frozen over a dodgy tax return and he'd post it on FB. And then the rest would cave because they would not want to risk it.
We've been trained to believe that individual comfort in the short term is more valuable than anything else. And we're unwilling to risk it to find out if the altruistic idyllic fantasy could become real. This is directly opposite of previous groups who did affect change.