More Details Emerge On How the US Is Bugging Its European Allies 442
dryriver writes with this excerpt from the Guardian: "U.S. intelligence services are spying on the European Union mission in New York and its embassy in Washington, according to the latest top secret U.S. National Security Agency documents leaked by the whistleblower Edward Snowden. One document lists 38 embassies and missions, describing them as 'targets.' It details an extraordinary range of spying methods used against each target, from bugs implanted in electronic communications gear to taps into cables to the collection of transmissions with specialised antennae. Along with traditional ideological adversaries and sensitive Middle Eastern countries, the list of targets includes the E.U. missions and the French, Italian and Greek embassies, as well as a number of other American allies, including Japan, Mexico, South Korea, India and Turkey. ... One of the bugging methods mentioned is codenamed Dropmire, which, according to a 2007 document, is 'implanted on the Cryptofax at the E.U. embassy, DC' – an apparent reference to a bug placed in a commercially available encrypted fax machine used at the mission. The NSA documents note the machine is used to send cables back to foreign affairs ministries in European capitals."
Re:No Shit (Score:0, Informative)
It also doesn't support the 'Snowden is evil' image either.
I disagree, that's exactly what it does. It's evil because it gives an entirely one sided view of the situation -- where are your European leakers? Your Asian leakers? Your Russian leakers? Or are you daft enough to think that Great Britain, Germany, China, Russia, etc are not engaging in espionage? Furthermore, I now support the charges of espionage claimed by the US. If you're involved in espionage against some country -- ally or foe -- and someone leaks that information worldwide, they too are now engaged in espionage.
Afterall he is only reporting what any 'responsible' government already knew and did......
Incredibly false. What he did was leak a bunch of documents in a very irresponsible manner. He could have chose to quit his job and go on to tell the American people they were being spied upon. That's been done at least three times before [eff.org]. But instead what he did was take a bunch of classified documents and release them to the press without any redactions -- and some international presses too. Why didn't he sit down and carefully consider all the information and just pare it down to only the details that Americans were being spied upon by their government? That's why he's legally screwed right now and will likely never be able to return to the United States and be jailed for life if he does.
Re:Enemies of the state (Score:2, Informative)
Didn't this used to be considered an "act of war?" From Wikipedia under Acts of War / Casus belli
...casus foederis refers to offenses or threats to a fellow allied nation with which the justifying nation is engaged in a mutual defense treaty, such as NATO.
Re:When congress and CEOs find they've been bugged (Score:2, Informative)
I think this puts it into perspective. Still do not think it is right. Just shows how long they have been doing this.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/how-a-30-year-old-lawyer-exposed-nsa-mass-surveillance-of-americans-in-1975/
tl;dr version ... going on since at least 1950. Under different program names. All 'just ended recently'.
This has been going on a LONG time. 9/11 was just an excuse to make it legal and retroactive immunity in 2008. Some companies saw it as their duty to help the NSA. Others lawyered up. Others had a 'yeah the other guys do it too' attitude.
I doubt they will be all that outraged. They singed it into law letting them do it.
Re:Who cares (Score:5, Informative)
Quoting the PP in full because I hate moderators turning into political censors. -1 is for trolls and flamebait, not posters whose opinions you disagree with. FWIW I completely disagree w/ the PP, but their comment is a legitimate part of this debate.
Those countries are probably spying on us as well. And our government has a responsibility to know what other governments are doing, to the best of our abilities.
That said, it shows how much damage Snowden has done to publicly reveal this undoubtedly top secret information. He's a traitor.
P.S. The ultimate irony is if this comment gets modded down from its original +2, but it wouldn't be the first time a comment like this has been. Not only do some mods like to act as political censors, they don't like being called on it.
Re:When congress and CEOs find they've been bugged (Score:5, Informative)
I doubt they will be all that outraged. They singed it into law letting them do it.
from http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/jesselyn-radack-points-out-problem-fi [crooksandliars.com] -
STEPHANOPOULOS: But these surveillance programs, as the president has pointed out, were passed by the Congress, are overseen by a court.
RADACK: Well, both of those are incorrect. Congress has not been fully informed. Only the--
STEPHANOPOULOS: They passed the laws, there is oversight, or there is (inaudible).
RADACK: OK, but there is a secret interpretation of Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which nobody knows, except for the Intel Committee of Congress, and even they say that they think most Americans would be appalled by that. And to say that it’s been approved by the courts is a misnomer, because it gives the impression that federal courts have approved this, when in reality, it’s the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which has rubber-stamped every single--
STEPHANOPOULOS: Which is a federal court.
RADACK: No, it is a secret court set up at the Justice Department that has federal judges on it. But last year, it approved 2,000 out of 2,000 applications. They hear only the government’s side, and they have never -- they have rejected an application one time since 1978.
Re:Hurts Snowden's Credibility (Score:4, Informative)
The journalist and author Naomi Wolf has been wondering for some time [naomiwolf.org] if he's a "false flag". She raises a number of interesting points, and has cred when it comes to whistleblower issues. He may very well be the real deal... but in any case this issue is bigger than anyones heroics and faults. Dirty political tricks WILL be employed if anyones power is at stake.
I'm posting again because I was modded up, then down earlier. I'm smiling right now at my own paranoia.
Hmm (Score:5, Informative)