Fighting TSA Harassment of Disabled Travelers 525
An anonymous reader writes "A man with a neurological disorder is currently pushing the TSA to release a full list of its policies and procedures after a series of incidents in which he was harassed while trying to fly. His condition requires medical liquids and causes episodic muteness, and the TSA makes his encounters very difficult. From January: 'Boston Logan TSA conducted an illegal search of my xray-cleared documents (probably motivated either by my opting out or by my use of sign language to communicate). They refused to give me access to the pen and paper that I needed to communicate. Eventually they gave it to me, but then they took it away in direct retaliation for my using it to quote US v Davis and protest their illegal search (thereby literally depriving me of speech). They illegally detained me for about an hour on spurious, law enforcement motivated grounds (illegal under Davis, Aukai, Fofana, Bierfeldt, etc). ... TSA has refused to comply with the ADA grievance process; they are over a month beyond the statutory mandate for issuing a written determination.'"
My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
I haven't traveled to the USA.
The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.
Re:My answer (Score:4, Insightful)
It's the TSA. (Score:2, Insightful)
Security guards that the government for some reason decided were federal agents. If this were any kind of public servant (apart from police of any kind), you could expect adherence to some kind of professional standard, but you're looking at the mall cops of the state security apparatus. A joke from top to bottom.
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yawn (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, where does he get off having a neurological condition rendering him unable to speak?
That bastard.
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Already been there two times. I did not feel treated like dirt, but like others airports screening process...
Don't know what "other" airports you have been to, but I have been to airports in both Asia and Europe in the past few years (India, Japan, Germany, UK, etc), and NONE, no even a single one, had a screening process that is even remotely close to TSA.
For the past decade, I refused to travel to the US for the same reason, even though there are quite a few places I would like to visit.
Re:My answer (Score:4, Insightful)
Then what are Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia,
Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, French Guiana, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama?
This proves why TSA is failing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS? (Score:2, Insightful)
So do something about it. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what I don't get about people these days.
None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. You just sit there and whine and complain about everything, you make up excuses from thin air and say you've got no choice. Well, news flash, you do.
You want to get rid of the TSA?
Don't fly.
It's that simple. No, don't tell me you have to. You don't. You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen? The airlines will get things changed in a hurry and the TSA will evaporate in a puff of invalid logic. It's that simple!
"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...
Yeah, that right there, that's the reason why the TSA still exists. You're unwilling to inconvenience yourself. None of you are. So the TSA will continue to inconvenience you instead, because they've got you by the balls (sometimes literally) and they know it. They'll continue to squeeze and squeeze, they'll expand out into the rest of the world like a cancerous tumour and then, when you find yourself in a police state and the TSA controls all major forms of travel- you'll wonder why you didn't do something sooner.
The fact that you think you have no choice is precisely what they want you to think, because that is what gives them control over you.
Cue the endless stream of "I have to fly, you're wrong, if I wish really hard I'm sure the TSA will go away all the same" replies.
Re:My answer (Score:2, Insightful)
I too have suspended travel to the USA. They need to change their ways and learn some customer service before they'll get my tourist dollars.
Re:My answer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an American living in Switzerland and fly fairly regularly out of the major Swiss airports (Geneva and Zurich), as well as several other big European airports (London Heathrow, London Gatwick, Frankfurt, etc.). I also fly (or have flown) fairly regularly to/from major US airports (Washington-Dulles, Chicago, Atlanta, the New York airports, Houston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles, etc.
While each country and airport has its own different quirks for airport security and border controls, I've never really had a "bad" screening process with any airport -- including those in the US. The TSA's asked me to go through the nude-o-scope once (every other time has been the standard metal detector), I politely opted-out, they did a quick pat-down, and I was on my way faster than many people who went through the scanner. One time my wristwatch set off the metal detector in Zurich and they gave me a similar pat-down, only it was slightly faster as they weren't explaining exactly what they were going to do like the TSA guy was. Both were of similar degrees of "invasiveness" (that is, not unusually invasive for a standard pat-down search). The screening of carry-on luggage has been pretty much the same for decades and hasn't given me any hassle.
Even when taking unusual electronics in carryon luggage, such as scientific equipment to Oman, there hasn't been any issues.
The only difference I've noticed between the US and European screening is that the Europeans don't require that I take off my shoes. A minor thing and something I find fairly stupid, but hardly the end of the world.
To me, the big difference is at border checkpoints: the Swiss checkpoints are, as you might expect, quick and efficient. The British seem to hire cheerful, pleasant people to staff their checkpoints and I've never had any issues with them at all. Lines have been minimal, even leading up to the Olympics.
The American customs and border patrol people are dressed like street cops (including body armor) at the checkpoint. They routinely have drug-sniffing dogs and will randomly pull people out of line for additional searches. Even as a US citizen, they scrutinize my passport as if it were a fine work of art and take a moderate amount of time to do so. Evidently non-citizens from visa-waiver countries need to do some pre-travel background check online that costs $15 or so (but is good for 5 years), get fingerprinted, and have their photo taken. That's definitely a hassle and I think it's unnecessary and way more uptight than the European passport control process. Still, the whole process takes just a few minutes and you only need to go through it at the border; once inside the country it's not an issue.
Re:My answer (Score:0, Insightful)
You are deliberately being obtuse. You know that this causes confusion/anger among the people reading your posts, you are a horrible communicator.
Remember that English is not always a precise language. You drive on parkways and park in driveways for example. This is the same thing. You know what the word means, but you insist upon using it in a way that no one else does.
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why do federal employees act like dicks? (Score:4, Insightful)
Pournell's law of bureaucracy:
Once an organization reaches a certain size, it's primary focus changes from servicing customers or citizens to perpetuating the bureaucracy.
Re:My answer (Score:4, Insightful)
The Israeli routines are psychological and differ per person, very interesting to observe.
As are the ~18 y/o female subscripts doing the first line of questioning :)
Time for a Bivens lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)
He ought to sue those persons responsible, as individuals. Going all the way to the top. IMNHO, there is more than cause for him to do so. And he certainly has standing...
A few multi-million-dollar judgements against individual TSA agents and managers would do a lot pour encourager les autres.
Re:My answer (Score:0, Insightful)
You see you fail to realize that this is a US centered site. I actually have problems figuring out how you failed to realize this. The spelling is American, the grammar conventions tend to be American, the stories are 75%+ American centered. 75%+ of the users are American. Yet for some reason we have to adjust for the rest of the world here.
You will have to excuse me. I believe I am needed on some British, and some Australian sites. I believe there are some spelling errors that need to be corrected. I also plan to rant about anything that doesnt fit in with my worldview. Thank you for showing me the way.
It's not Harassment (Score:1, Insightful)
Secondly this guy has a pretty rare medical condition that is sometimes assisted by having juice. But then he
doesn't want to provide any documentation about his condition to support his claim that he needs his juice citing
(among other things) HIPAA, which doesn't apply to the airport or TSA since they are not medical providers.
He doesn't want to purchase his juice from the concessions because they don't have his 'favorite' brands of juice
and also is carrying 3 liters of it.
So he expects anyone to be able to get by with liquids just by saying "I need my juice, for medical reasons, I'm not
going to tell you more."
While I think the no liquid rule is silly, it is the rule. That would defeat the purpose of it.
Re:An important lesson (Score:4, Insightful)
The first and last time I encountered the TSA (Toadlike Stupid Assholes) was a bad experience which I won't detail, so I no longer fly commercial. I drive wherever I go which could be a 3,200 mile round-trip to visit relatives. It takes about 2.5 days both ways out of my vacation time but I do get to see a lot of pretty country on the trip. I no longer need to put up with Toadlike Stupid Assholes wanting to question me and look in my luggage and feel my junk. I also miss out on the travel time to-from airports (at LAX it's very stressful) and I don't have to eat airport/jet plane food or listen to kids crying etc... etc...
The TSA is just one of the many violations of my god-given rights some of which are enumerated in the Bill of Rights. What really saddens me however is the sheep-like response of the majority of the public in putting up with these violations. Every time some government jack-booted thug violates a citizens rights the citizen should protest loudly to whoever will listen. But instead most of the sheeple will either knuckle under and go along to get along and be thankful he wasn't beaten or shot to death. When it happens to somebody else the sheeple sometimes laugh and make fun of the poor soul who is now in the hospital or morgue because he dared to open his mouth and protest or resisted (in the mind of the thug anyway) even slightly.
Yes. In many ways we live in a totalitarian police state. The fact that sheeple deny it is because they were mostly educated in a government school and raised by their parent sheeples. Few are the scholars who know what life would be like if the Bill of Rights were strictly enforced by placing every government thug on trial for rights violations and the agency he works for to be civilly liable for monetary damages.
http://www.ncc-1776.org/ [ncc-1776.org]
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
First will someone please mod my first comment from this thread up out of the cellar. It shouldn't be modded down for correcting an untruth. Now to correct another person's untruth.
I am Canadian. I live in North America. I like America and most Americans but not always the governments. I am NOT American. I am Canadian. Get that through your head. And every single Canadian will say the same thing about themselves and Americans (except the idiots who think the War of 1812 is still ongoing). The whole is called 'The Americas'. Note the 's' at the end. Come to Canada and call someone American. If the aren't a tourist visiting from America, you will be flamed to your face. Most Canadians don't have a problem with Americans, and most like the country (but maybe not the governments). But it is like calling an Austrian a German because they both speak German. You will not be received favourably.
So here is your corrected geography lesson as you seem to be horribly confused and/or misinformed. In the north part of The AmericaS, is North America. It is divided into three countries: Canada, The United States of America (also known as 'America'... no 's' at the end), and Mexico. Canadians and Mexicans (who, when they are speaking English) use the terms, Canadian for Canadians, Mexican for Mexicans, and Americans for Americans, the latter of which are people who come from the United States of America. We do not call them 'United States of Americans'.
Mind you, you might just be the troll that others are accusing me of.
Re:So do something about it. (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:So do something about it. (Score:4, Insightful)
At this point, they're still proliferated mostly just at airports; all other modes of transportation are minimally infiltrated.
So, yes, at this point, if everyone or the vast majority refused to fly, I'm sure the airlines would use their political connections and lobbying power to dissolve the TSA with haste.
I took a trip from the Midwest to the east coast a few weeks ago. Normally, this is about 4-5 hours of flying time and consumes 3/4 of a day with hurry-up-and-wait. But I decided I'd enough with the TSA's bullshit and took the train instead.
Not once was I stopped, groped or searched. I didn't need to go through any checkpoints or scanners. I didn't need to remove my shoes and strip half way down. I didn't have to take half the stuff out of my bag and then feverishly reassemble everything while a queue of annoyed people piled up behind me. I just bought my ticket and hopped on (what a concept, eh?) ... and it's not like I was just hopping over from one podunk hick town to another, I went through Chicago and DC, not exactly calm places with lax security protocols.
But, on the other hand, the trip took two full days and two nights of travel each way, the coach seats were good, but useless for sleeping and the sleeper car I opted for on the subsequent nights were quite expensive.
So, yes, I've sacrificed convenience, money, time and comfort to defy the TSA and their bullshit. What have you done?
Re:My answer (Score:5, Insightful)
That's true - the Spanish speakers.
What gets me is The United States of Mexico is referred to simply as "Mexico" and nobody has an issue. Someone from there is "Mexican", again no issues. But repeat with USA, and everyone is in an uproar. The *only* consistent usage is to distinguish between America and "the Americas" (As your dictionary definition indicates "the Americas" is different).
Re:Reigning in the TSA (Score:4, Insightful)
Publicizing these type of stories is good, but how can we best see their powers reigned in and actually enforce respecting our rights?
One thing to consider: just in the past few days, the TSA has finally complied with a court ruling from July 2011 that said they had illegally implemented new scanning policies without requesting public comment. EPIC has finally managed to get the TSA to set up the comment system [epic.org].
Some people might consider submitting comments. The TSA probably won't listen directly. But they will become part of public record, and if a court case ever does manage to really challenge some of the TSA policies, it will be harder for courts to say, "Well, nobody seems bothered very much by all the enhanced scanning and patdowns."
By the way, from the summary:
they are over a month beyond the statutory mandate for issuing a written determination
That's NOTHING. After illegally failing to take public comments before implementing a massive change to the accepted norms for searches, federal courts directly ordered the TSA to comply with taking comments. You can still read all the news stories from July 2011, when people thought we finally had some sort of victory for privacy -- maybe the TSA would finally listen. But they did NOTHING. Presumably, they were just waiting, hoping that Americans would get used to the new searches, and they wouldn't have to deal with the problem. After a full year had passed, EPIC finally got a hearing to consider a writ of mandamus to force the order to be adhered to. (Seriously -- a federal agency refusing to implement a simple court order?? After a year of dragging their feet, the courts, if they were at all honest, should have implemented an emergency stay right then and there and shut down the scanners until the TSA complied... at a minimum. If your average citizen did something like this, they'd be tossed in jail for contempt of court.)
Months more passed, and finally the writ of mandamus was denied, because the TSA said it would finally get around to dealing with this issue by Feb.-Mar. 2013. And it seems they waited until the last few days possible to finally implement the comment system.
If you have something serious to say about this, here's your chance [regulations.gov]. It may or may not make a difference, but I think it's certainly more likely to be effective than complaining on Slashdot every week or two when a new TSA story comes along.
Re:My answer (Score:4, Insightful)
America (singular) in common vernacular always refers to The United States of America. It's actually very simply and I can't figure out why people get this wrong. What is the name for people that live in Canada? Canadian. What is name for people that live in Mexico? Mexican. What is the name for people that live in The United States of America? ..........
The only people who get it wrong are either second language speakers of English (in which case it's not entirely their fault as other languages use the term differently) and/or people trying to make a political point that they don't like the USA (in which case they're just being childish).
Re:My answer (Score:4, Insightful)
Having spent 3 hours in 4 lines in Caracas getting documents stamped, checked, restamped, rechecked, etc I'd much rather travel in the USA.
Thanks to the TSA, in 'Merica you can spend 6 hours in 4 windowless little rooms getting your arse stamped, checked, restamped, rechecked. Be careful what you ask for.
Re:Only to USians. (Score:4, Insightful)
Who the hell are any of you that you get to decide how we refer to ourselves. We are not USians where ever you got you got that please stop, Ask anyone in the world who the Americans are, and I promise you more then 90% will tell you what we already know. That the term Americans refers to the citizens of the United States of America. Try it for your self, go down to Venezuela and call them American. I bet they won't thank you.