Islamists In Bangladesh Demand Murder of More Bloggers 389
An anonymous reader writes "Days after the killing of leftist blogger Thaba Baba, mosques throughout Bangladesh called for a popular uprising to demand the killing of other bloggers who had held a rally calling for the death of Jama'at-e-Islami leaders convicted of war crimes. This happens in an atmosphere of ongoing tension between Left and Right, with the leftist government threatening to outlaw rightist parties while the right uses violence to quiet selected enemies."
Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Um. No. Remember that lady who named a teddy bear Mohammed and there were mass movements in the street calling for her death?
Or the cartoonist who was killed cause of one of his drawings?
As bad as westboro is, they are 1. Super Small, and 2. Haven't actually killed anyone yet.
Islam is a batshit religion, that happens to contain a decent number of sane people who happen to have been raised inside of that culture. The quicker we realize that it is anything BUT a religion of peace, and deal with it appropriately, the better.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not all Muslims are Terrorists.
But most Terrorists are Muslims.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you are glossing over the fact that, while offensive, holding up a sign saying "God hates fags" isn't quite the same thing as killing somebody. I'm not a fan of religion at all. But of the significant world religions Islam is alone in constantly calling for death and destruction. Simply look at any country that has a significant population of Muslims intermixed with another group. How many of those places have no tensions? None. Zero. Zip. Of course the Muslims always seem to have a reason for declaring a Fatwah and calling for death.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:4, Insightful)
These few loud attention seekers do not represent Islam...
Your comment might hold merit if Westboro was blowing people up, or they were forcing their young girls into FGM, or there was a substantially large number of them involved in grooming one particular race of girls for sex exploitation, or in some countries nearly all rapes are being committed by one group. Or they were threatening women who stood up for themselves, or even rose to positions of power. But none of that really holds any water does it, even when you expand outside of westboro at large.
NOT a battle between "left" and "right" (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a battle between secular democratic government and koran-thumping nutballs who want to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else at sword point.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Westboro Baptist Church is made up up maybe a dozen individuals in a nation of hundreds of millions. Radical Islam is now a significant majority in many Muslim countries, and a significant minority in many more.
War criminals, not just islamists (Score:5, Insightful)
But the attitude didn't change, and after losing an election overwhelmingly to a political party based mostly in East Pakistan, the loser from the West worked with the military to not hand over the power and instead let loose The Pakistani Army, which, with the help of local collaborators (Rajakars), killed 3 million people [genocidebangladesh.org] and raped [youtube.com] 200,000 women in 1971. One of the stated reasons was to "Protect Islam."
Fast forward to 2012. Now there is a war-crimes trial going on for some of the top Rajakars, and like the Arab Spring, social media headed by young bloggers took a leading role in holding the war criminals accountable.
So the Rajakars, who predominantly belong to a party called Jamaat-E-Islami, are trying to inflame popular sentiment (which is overwhelmingly against them) through propaganda that all bloggers are Atheists. Their campaign is funded by huge influx of money from the middle east and a network of highly profitable businesses in Bangladesh. They own TV stations and newspapers that are using photoshopped images to show the alleged debauchery and insults to Islam of the so-called Atheists.
So this is not just a left vs. right issue as people elsewhere might interpret it. This is an active campaign for the Talibanization of Bangladesh along with a campaign to protect people who allegedly committed crimes against humanity.
The process is not to ban just rightist parties (there are plenty)--the process aims to ban Jamaat-E-Islami, which has never clearly stated that their role in 1971 (of helping with genocide and rape) was wrong, and which is headed by people who actively participated in the genocide and rape.
For freedom-loving people everywhere, this must not be allowed to stand. "Atheists bloggers" is just a red herring--don't let this cheap trick by alleged criminals muddy the water.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:2, Insightful)
So something like Christianity six centuries ago? :)
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ultra-strict disciplinarian religions are aggregators for people with impulse control problems. You can see how all aspects of Islam are designed around catering to low-EQ people.
Eg: Women covering themselves with veils, or from head to toe.
(Translation: when I see women's skin, I can't control myself, I might jump her, so she better make sure not to show any skin, coz I sure can't be expected to control my urges)
The mob riots over Youtube videos - how the hell is that just a "tiny minority of extremists"? Which other religion does this?
Where are the "greater majority" who oppose such extremism? Gone fishin?
Wherever Muslims are in the minority, they want all kinds of minority rights. Wherever Muslims are in the majority, what kind of rights do they give to minorities? I don't see any other ethnic groups immigrating to Muslim-majority countries. On the contrary, I see all the minorities leaving.
The fact that Muslims want as many rights for themselves as possible while giving as little respect as possible from their side towards other religions -- well, that tells me all I need to know about how to treat that religion. I'm not going to show more tolerance to someone than they're willing to show to me. Anything else is called masochism.
Re: Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or like Islam today, which is much more relevant.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
The U.S. is actually a decent example of a country with a significant Muslim population and general lack of any fatwahs or jihads going on. There are some occasional nuts, but I don't think it's any more prevalent than with any other religious group: an American Muslim is no more likely to try to bomb you than an American Christian is.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. Islam desperately needs a Protestant reformation.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
The quicker we realize that it is anything BUT a religion of peace, and deal with it appropriately, the better.
Can you elaborate on this? How to deal with it? This isn't one of those vague political "yada yada yada" ideas, because dealing with a widely held religious belief usually involves war, discriminatory laws, or any other of a wide variety of excuses to stamp on personal rights and freedom of association.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
most Terrorists are Muslims.
Troll.
This moves in waves.
Let's not forget about IRA, ETA, RAF, various other left-wing bombers in Europe, untold guerilla movements in Africa and South America.
With some exceptions it mostly follows where there are active separatist movements at any given time
Do your homework.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well first of all it's decentralised, so no pope to rally against, and second of all the Westboros and related nuts aren't Catholic. The creationists and extremists are all Protestant sects, so even after a reformation look what happened. The quicker we realise that the Abrahamic religions in general are a blight, the better. I won't say all religions because Buddhism is okay, but most.
More like 7-8 centuries (Score:5, Insightful)
But ya
Christianity grew up. It's not perfect, it still has plenty of crazies in various kinds, but by and large Christianity grew out of the crusades mentality. Islam by and large has not.
Thus I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to criticize Islam in a way they do not criticize Christianity (I'm an atheist by the way). That Christianity was all "kill the unbelievers" 700+ years ago does NOT give Islam license to be that way today. Society can, and should, advance. I would hope that in 700 years people would look back on society today and be glad that their society was even better than it is now.
In very many ways Islam is still largely stuck in the Dark Ages and it needs to stop. We shouldn't give it a pass because Christianity was also in the Dark Ages several centuries ago.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
"that happens to contain a decent number of sane people who happen to have been raised inside of that culture"
One thing that many people don't understand is that Islam is more than a religion, its a culture that dictates how one should live, worship and govern its people. Islam knows no borders and Muslims have a very strong sense of belonging to the point where an Afgan and Iranian would see each other as brothers and not men from different countries.
At work we have two Pakistani kids, brothers. I was talking to one of them about a company that was started by two guys from Iraq and his face instantly lit up, smiled and said "Oh wow, my people started that business?" At first I was confused and asked him "Wait, I thought you are Pakistani" to which he replied "Yea, but they are Muslims like me". That really showed me how close the Muslim people are connected by their belief. Its to the point where a Pakistani is proud of the achievements of two men from Iraq, a completely different country. When was the last time anyone here spoke of an achievement of a Christian from another country with pride based solely on the fact they they were Christian like them?
Christians do not have that kind of bond with each other and therefor don't understand why the Muslims go crazy when someone disses Mohammed or makes a YouTube video calling Islam a religion of terrorists. You are insulting an entire culture, spiritual belief and government of all Muslims, everywhere. Christians have gotten to the point where they don't really give a shit, though there are sects that are still very close with each other (Mormons etc.). So when someone makes a Jesus joke or calls the church a scam, they don't take up arms and call for death.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:4, Insightful)
How in the hell this has been modded "5 Insightful"?
There are two kinds of muslims:
* peaceful sinners who cherry-pick from the Koran
* murderous savages who do as the prophet commanded
I see you're used to Bible which contains thousands of contradictions and thus can't possibly be followed without massive cherry-picking. It does contain savage commandments like "when you approach a town, you need to issue an ultimatum: if the denizens surrender, kill only old women/the infirm/those uppity/etc and put the rest into slavery, taking their women as your wives and concubines -- but if they refuse to surrender, you must slaughter them all. Except for a list of tribes, which you're not allowed to spare and must slaughter without quarter, including livestock" -- yet no one takes such commandments seriously today, despite Jesus reaffirming the old law multiple times.
On the other hand, the few contradictions in Koran are limited to "how many angels visited Miriam", the biggest one IIRC is about permissibility of alcohol. There's not a shred of doubt about being obliged to murder infidels. You must be forgiveful but only to those who convert to Islam, you may subjugate people of four religions but only for a period of time, you should offer infidels a chance to convert, and when facing overwhelming force you may merely lie and use "stratagems" until a time to strike happens.
It is impossible to follow the Bible in full. It is well possible to follow the Koran. And thus I disagree with your claim that those who do are merely "few loud attention seekers who do not represent Islam".
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:2, Insightful)
* You need to check the definition of "significant."
* You must not have been paying attention around 2001 when a Fatwah claimed the lives of over 5,000 people.
* You can use the "loan gunman" argument for Christian terrorists. But that same argument applies to stray Muslim terrorists. There were a few. Remember Lee-Boyd Malvo?
* Your argument that it is not as prevalent with any other group is flawed. When I board a plane I am not worried about all the Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, or Wiccan terrorists.
Disclaimer: I am an atheist. I think the world would be better without any religion. That being said I also believe in letting people do what they want as long as it doesn't harm me. What's the most likely religion to harm anyone? Islam. When the Buddhist terrorist threat gets high enough I'll worry about it. But being an Engineer I solve the immediate problem first so I can be around to solve the next one. And for the dimension of religion: Islam is the problem.
Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (Score:5, Insightful)
An answer then... because you asked so politely...
At my school they always told me that these muslim people are followers of the religion of love, peace and respect. And that any misconduct of that group could, and SHOULD, be played down with either:
- other religions are violent as well, look at the crusaders, the IRA, abortion-clinic-arsonists, the KKK. (Funny that they never mentioned Sikh / Hindu / other religions huh?)
- Those people 'lost' their religion, so any killings have NOTHING to do with islam.
Now, years later I know better.
9/11, 3000 deaths, by Saudi Arabian muslims.
2002 bomblast in Bali (Indonesia), 200 killed by muslims
2004 muslims killed 250 schoolkids in Beslan (Russia)
2004 muslims blew up 190 people in Madrid (yurp)
7/7 London, 52 killed by... wait for it... muslims
2008 muslims the Mumbai (India) blast killed 160 people.
2013 muslims murdered 13 people in Hyderabad (India, last week)
That totals 3,865 of only this horrendously light weight list. There are thousands of smaller cases like the girl that was shot in the face (by muslims) because she wanted to be educated. Or that (Christian) girl with a little mental handicap that was accused of burning pages of a koran and was almost killed by the people in the neighbourhood. The list could be far more elaborate. Nevertheless I heard about Breivik, and yes people are killed by white-power groups and all... but that is like saying that a paper plane is equal to a 747 because they both fly.
To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wow! (Score:4, Insightful)
So you see rightist autocracies as a solution to leftist democracies? I understand an abhorrence to the idea of "the needs of many" outweighing the needs of the one and all but, seriously, do you really believe the needs of the few out weigh the needs of the many? Maybe it could just be that your understanding of liberal democracy and mine do not jive? Most authoriatarians that I've simply have a belief that they are somehow superior than others.
Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (Score:5, Insightful)
You are not actually helping the case of Muslims with your post. You actually make the case that Muslims are terrorists, even to other muslims.
And short of IRA and Brittain being at war over "religion" (sort of by proxy), you'd be hard press to see the Roman Catholics waring with Lutherans or Baptists. Or Buddists waring with Taoists.
If you look at a map, with active conflicts, you can bet that Islam is involved on one side or the other and come out ahead ... by a long shot.
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:4, Insightful)
Luther wasn't the *first* to stand against the Pope --- rather, the first to do so while also accumulating enough backing from local and regional political leaders (Fredrick, Elector of Saxony et al.) to avoid being squashed with extreme prejudice by the Inquisition. A "reformation" for Islam, to cause meaningful change in the conflict-ridden Middle East, requires a pre-existing political shift to significant leadership factions who would benefit from a "kinder, gentler" Islam, rather than the authoritarian extremism that keeps the current group in power.
True (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know why parent has been marked Funny - it should be marked insightful. Check this http://kanewj.com/wbc/ [kanewj.com]
Re:Before commenting, please remember... (Score:3, Insightful)
The Americans I'm personally most worried about are the left wingnuts that think that Government is the arbiter of their morals, like Bloomberg's assault on soda, or the do gooders that want to ban happy meals and shit like that. Because, when they win (and they are winning) they will want to control everything. But Liberals love to poke fun at (R) types for their issues on Abortion (stay out of my womb), they are completely silent when their side wants to control everything else.
And they are so fucked up, that some liberals are trying to ban smoking (all kinds) while at the same time trying to legalize marijuana. How are they going to smoke pot when smoking is illegal?
Re:More like 7-8 centuries (Score:5, Insightful)
But ya
Christianity grew up. It's not perfect, it still has plenty of crazies in various kinds, but by and large Christianity grew out of the crusades mentality. Islam by and large has not.
Islam in the western (read: prosperous) world mostly has. Almost all extremism has direct origins in countries with oppressive regimes or areas with so much poverty, corruption and inequalities that any person would find it hard to create a decent life under moderation. The average muslim in a decent environment does not resort to terrorism or hatred any more than the average non-muslim in such an environment.
Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (Score:5, Insightful)