Judge Issues Temporary Order Blocking Expulsion For Refusing To Wear RFID Tag 305
An anonymous reader writes with an update about the student refusing to wear an RFID badge in Texas. From the article: "A district court judge for Bexar County has granted a temporary restraining order (TRO) to ensure that Andrea Hernandez, a San Antonio high school student from John Jay High School's Science and Engineering Academy, can continue her studies pending an upcoming trial. The Northside Independent School District (NISD) in Texas recently informed the sophomore student that she would be suspended for refusing to wear a 'Smart' Student ID card embedded with a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tracking chip."
From the original article... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Informative)
Simple Science (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Simple Science (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Simple Science (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sorry sir, I left my ID card in my pants while trying to dry them off in the microwave oven, I was in a hurry this morning.
Re:Simple Science (Score:4, Interesting)
And get expelled for destruction of school property, great idea.
How does a passive EM shield destroy school property?
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So what's wrong with a simple password or a PIN, that could be used for all of this as well? Without indiscriminately tracking you when you don't want to be tracked?
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They're doing the best they can do at the moment while staying legal...
So exposure to certain, harmless forms of EM radiation is now illegal because it might damage the school property that you are required to wear? Not to mention the possibility of using a passive metal screen to simply block the signal as some do with passports...seems you were not smart enough to consider that possibility even when it was pointed out to you.
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Re:From the original article... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then is there never a time to say "enough?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:From the original article... (Score:4, Informative)
You can chose to not have a cellphone. You can chose not to have a credit card.
But this RFID card is mandatory, which is the problem.
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But this RFID card is mandatory, which is the problem.
Attending this school is a choice, their religious beliefs are what are an issue here.
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Not being tagged like a criminal or an animal is a religious belief?
Re:From the original article... (Score:4)
So by your logic putting everyone in prison solves the issue of where people are. And people shouldn't complain because it is for their safety right?
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:From the original article... (Score:4, Insightful)
"Everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother"
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Insightful)
You missed the part where the school also required that the parents and student must vocally support the RFID program, even with a crippled badge.
You also missed the part where wearing said badge -crippled or not- implies acceptance of the program to the other students, forcing compliance.
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...don't disable the badge. Presumably the school is using them (or should be) the same way, namely students have to have them, have to have NOT destroyed or disabled them, or they won't be able to get to class...
There is nothing that would keep her from keeping it in an RF shielded sleeve (they already make these for passports) and pull it out when needed.
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well I think at this point it is the principal of the matter.
I imagine she would of been perfectly fine wearing the normal ID badge, but after encountering so much opposition she has dug in her heels.
And she is right to. She is guaranteed a high-school public education and I doubt that it is legal to force things like this onto children and then expel them when they refuse. She is not disrupting other children's educations nor being violent of otherwise harmful, so the public education system does not have grounds for expulsion.
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, technically by not being "in attendance" they do, because thanks to some stupid laws (NCLB, I think?) high school funding is based on attendance. If a student is absent more than X days, the school is denied funding for that student (and it's easier ot just expel them and wipe their hands clean than anything).
Which leads to solutions like this, where they don't care if one student swipes 10 RFID cards entering a class - they just want the record to state that said student was "present" at that class for that money.
And of course, if a parent wonders where their kid is, they can always point to the RFID record, oh-you-mean-someone-else-stole-their-ID-not-our-problem.
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Insightful)
If a student is absent more than X days, the school is denied funding for that student (and it's easier ot just expel them and wipe their hands clean than anything).
They schools also play games where students get transferred to another school, so that they don't count on the rolls and the clock is reset for the second school.
Ultimately, education starts at home.
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Well, technically by not being "in attendance" they do, because thanks to some stupid laws (NCLB, I think?) high school funding is based on attendance. If a student is absent more than X days, the school is denied funding for that student (and it's easier ot just expel them and wipe their hands clean than anything). ... Which leads to solutions like this, where they don't care if one student swipes 10 RFID cards entering a class - they just want the record to state that said student was "present" at that class for that money.
The solution is clear then
Schools cannot be allowed to claim RFID swipes as "attendance" since they in no way serve as a guarantee of attendance. This would solve everyone's problems...
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Funny)
Well I think at this point it is the principal of the matter.
I imagine she would of been perfectly fine wearing the normal ID badge, but after encountering so much opposition she has dug in her heels.
And she is right to. She is guaranteed a high-school public education and I doubt that it is legal to force things like this onto children and then expel them when they refuse. She is not disrupting other children's educations nor being violent of otherwise harmful, so the public education system does not have grounds for expulsion.
I think you meant the principle of the matter. Here's the principal of the matter: https://nisd.schoolnet.com/outreach/jjhs/admin/harris/
This is the guy responsible for trying to expel her because she stood up for her rights.
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Informative)
>tl:dr is the internet equivalent of sticking you fingers in your ears and going "lalala". We don't need to know.
tl:dr is what you did with the original article, and you didn't put any further research in to it. They told her she could have one with no battery if she didn't talk bad about the program. From other news sources (from before the infowars one) they state students that didn't have the fully working RFID card were not allowed to participate in student voting and other functions. Also not stated is that this is a pilot program for 100 other surrounding schools. Someone wants to to shut up so they can get rich implementing this at all the schools in the area.
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Insightful)
And, as others have pointed out, it would require them to endorse it.
Re:From the original article... (Score:5, Insightful)
The student was offered a security card with no battery and chip, but still refused. I'd have some sympathy if the college hadn't offered this option
And you'd have some sympathy for Rosa parks, if the driver hadn't offered her the option of standing, instead of leaving the bus?
It might be work, if the college promised to have no battery, chip, or RFID in the cards of all students.
Otherwise, it's just a continuation of the status quo.
Attempting to work out an exception for the person with the courage to refuse and mount a legal challenge with great personal cost, without changing the rules for everyone, doesn't rectify the social injustice; it just results in a situation that is even more unfair,....
Oh, and also.... if you have one or two people with no RFID chip, they will be easy to track.
I'm surprised they don't work out a deal with that company that lets business monitor foot traffic in their stores by tracking individual cell phones.
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Its a high school, not a college.
She attends by law, not by choice.
Ok, well, it is a college; high schools are colleges, anyways. It's not a distinction I was making.
She may have to attend due to circumstance, but someone close to her has a choice.
The law in the states applies to most (but not all) children -- have to be enrolled in a program, and attend school they are enrolled in, at unless they have reached age 14 and drop out of high school with parental permission, get married/emancipated, exe
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And the Jews could have moved out of Germany before they where all rounded up. People like you can always make up some other option that isn't realistic can't you? Why not instead support someone who is fighting for their constitutional rights. I'm not even talking about wearing the damn thing right now I'm taking about being told "You are getting expelled but if you and your father never talk about this again then we will let you wear a disabled badge and let you stay. Boy getting expelled would sure ruin
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If the device contains a battery then it will have a much longer effective range compared with a passive RFID. At least until the battery fails. Wonder if anyone has considered what to do when that starts happening. There's also the issue of what to do when bullies and criminals find out what the effective range of these devices is.
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1. This is a high school, not JPL. The secrets and technology contained in HS are barely worth the time of day and do not require extreme measures of protection.
2. Children are required to attend HS. Employment is totally voluntary.
Get 'em young, get 'em for life. The darker side of this is getting young people to accept constant tracking by agents of the government. Yes, we all have cell phones, but this is much more overt, and much more dangerous because like employment, having a cell phone is volun
Number (Score:3, Insightful)
What's the big deal? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, let's condition our children to be treated like cattle. I'm sure that will do wonders for our free society!
Sure... I wonder why they aren't implanting the RFID tags though?
RFID badges are easily traded/held by friends, zapped with a microwave, or blocked with RF blocking.
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
The school wants the kids to fake attendance. That th secret here. US schools are paid by attendance. Teachers taking roll call is too hard to fake without overt fraud. An electronic system allows (and greatly motivates) the students to devise systems to fake attendance, which the school can then act surprised about when the system is discovered. Much better money that way.
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:What's the big deal? (Score:4, Insightful)
, the Code of Conduct superseded legal rights. You can sign away legal rights in a contract.
Utter bogus bullshit. You BELIEVED that nonsense? It's been ruled, again and again, that you cannot sign away any of your rights with a contract. No TOS, no code of conduct, no contract, no employer's regulations, NOTHING supersedes your rights as established by law. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, the right to be secure in your person and your home, all of that is LAW, and nothing supersedes it.
Good God, how can ANYONE roll over and play dead, just because some arrogant bastard tells them to? This is America, not some warlord's regime in the outback of Africa.
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No TOS, no code of conduct, no contract, no employer's regulations, NOTHING supersedes your rights as established by law.
Let's use an NDA, or a Security Clearance as an example. NDAs are contracts [wikipedia.org]. These contracts restrict you from talking about something you otherwise would be able to. You could still do it, but you'll be facing penalties for doing so. These are not 'rolling over and playing dead' these are agreements entered into willingly. If you break the agreement it means your word is worthless, how about not agreeing to something you otherwise have no intention of doing.
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The lawyer taught you wrong. You cannot sign away your rights. Tone? Did you say tone? Try this: do some loan sharking. Get some chump to agree that if he doesn't pay you back, you can break his knees. Get it in writing. Get a nice, legal contract, get it notarized, witnessed, get all the trimmings for your contract.
When he fails to make a payment or two, go visit him. Bring your ball bat, or whatever, and inform the police that you may need some protection while enforcing your rights under the con
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
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And people like you are a large part of what's wrong wth America. The founding fathers would start a new American revolution against the current government if they were alive and saw the shit government pulls these days...
Being not an American, articles like this remind me why I want to laugh hysterically when someone claims the USA are "the freest country in the world".
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Few from the USA would claim this. We have pretty darn good freedom of speech protection, not having fallen for the whole "hate speech" scam yet (hey, let's outlaw speech the government hates, it's for the best!). That's about it though. The Bill of Rights created a very free nation once, but most of that has been lost. Well, police still need a warrant from a judge for most things, so we've got that going for us.
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I personally don't see any problem with students having to wear RFID badges while they are at school.
Put a reader on the entrance to the bathrooms so you can track how often and for how long every student is using the bathrooms. As a bonus you can use a computer to determine which students are frequently entering the restroom together.
Add more readers in the hallway so you can track Ms. Hernandez to find out who she hangs out with, who her boyfriend most likely is, when she goes to the restroom, how long she stays there, how often she's alone...
Put together a database for all the students and I'm su
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Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Informative)
I don't get this ultimate desire for privacy.
It is not the government's business what you do - provided you are not committing terrorism etc. This is a fundamental principle. It has nothing to do with whether you have done anything it is simply that the government has *no business* looking into your private life without certain exceptions that citizens have acquiesced to for the common good (eg. certain government agencies may carry out investigations but this requires checks and balances to prevent it being misused [eg. judicial oversight]).
It is sad that you don't get it. Unfortunately many many people just don't grok the concept that the government is by us and for us, we are not servants of it (yet). It simply has no justification to probe our private affairs - that is not what governments were created for.
In this case the school has taken a leaf out of the government's book and is completely mistaken in it should be doing. Yes, reducing truancy is a good thing. However, *enforcing* invasive tracking is completely wrong. It shows how detached from reality the school governance is - they simply don't understand they down 'own' their students. Although this is by no means unusual, many in the teaching profession are using to ordering their wards around exactly as they see fit (I've seen it for myself).
Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't get the desire for privacy and use the "don't worry if you have nothing to hide" and "you are too small for the government to worry about" fallacies. The truth is that the government is usurping powers that it has not been granted and we should not go along with it - citizens have not granted the government these powers. Notice how that works, the legitimate authority flows from the citizens to the government, not the other way around. By usurping these powers the government (or school, in this case) is overstepping its permitted authority (that is, committing what would be a crime if a citizen did it). This must be pointed out and resisted (as the student so courageously did, despite probable peer pressure from mistaken sheep).
Can you at least get that? She has the right to defend her rights. The government and school have no business *forcing* her to provide her whereabouts with RFID. If she is absent from school then that can be noted and action taken - this does not mean they have carte blanche to force tracking on her or anyone else. It should be unacceptable to even suggest this, yet the sheeple even support the illegitimate demand against someone standing up for their right not to be tracked. Surely you can understand that, yes?
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Even for a purely passive RFID this can be tens of metres.
If she isn't at school her whereabouts won't be noted. The RFID would simply monitor location while on school property.
Only the badge itself stays on school property. It's basically a transponder which will send out a reply whenever it receives an appropriate signal.
At all. I don't care if my location is traced because I'm not committing a crime
What if a criminal wants to know your location so they can commit a crime aga
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Even for a purely passive RFID this can be tens of metres.
Can you provide a link? I work in the IT Asset Management business and I've never seen an "ID Card"-style passive RFID card that can be read from tens of metres away. Heck, finding one that works from a fixed-reader that's more than a meter away is tough.
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I understand that government is by us and for us I also understand that there are implied powers that the government can take. Location tracking for public schools and emergency response seem like appropriate use of implied powers.
I'll say it again in case I wasn't clear. The government can only do what the citizens grant it to do. It cannot decide what it will and won't do itself. The citizens have not granted the government the power to track citizens. The citizens have not granted a school the power to track students and schools cannot usurp this power for themselves. They cannot and should not use coercion to gain this power (as they do in this case).
All the other arguments about technical ranges of RFIDs and the other possibly
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In your ideal world, could I live my life at the same time as a productive member of society and yet completely anonymous to everybody else?
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You are assuming the most incompetent response in the presence of the RFID badges, therefore it seems only appropriate to assume the most incompetent response in their absence. Without badges that response might be "we don't know where to start looking so we will send one administrator to walk the halls a
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until you pop up on their radar
That's the problem. You never know when you're going to pop up on their radar, but if you ever do they have the capability to fuck you in many more ways than they would without any semblance of privacy rights.
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
I fear that your attitude will be the prevailing one. In the future I foresee myself being the outcast because I /don't/ share everything about my entire life on Facebook/Twitter/Whatever, because I don't let my cellphone announce where I am at all times.
I'm not worried about the government tracking me. Hell, if they want to, they will. There's not a lot I can do about it. It's everything ELSE tracking me. It's vast databases containing vast amounts of information about all of us. It's large corporations who use you and I as products.
Look, I hate getting those things in the mail addressed to "Resident". But I hate even more the ones addressed to me directly, from people I've never heard about. And how do those happen? Because someone somewhere took YOUR privacy and sold it.
You say "you are no one". Untrue. You are data. Data people can use. Data people can make money off. If you're ok being treated as a product, that's your business. I am not.
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People interested in kidnapping, robbing or raping you can be very interested in knowing where you are. Similarly criminals using identity fraud want identities of "nobodies". From the point of view of a criminal (or "intelligence" operative) th
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Also, they should have serial numbers tattooed on there arms.
You know, to go with the theme.
Good idea. And as reward for being so cooperative, everyone who remembers to get their tattoo should get a gold star, something they can sew on their clothes to let everyone know how patriotic they are.
There must be some faulty logic at stake. (Score:2)
The problem with religion is that people who believe in certain things will always argue that it's their right to belive in something and that the value fo truth of the said religion it's a matter of personal belief, hence it cannot be proved correct or otherwise from outisde nor do they want to listen to those arguments (granted, it's th
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TFA only presents the father's opinion which, I'm sorry to say so, seems to be very subjective. I seriously doubt that the school literally asked the girl to proudly wear the tag around her neck. Something in the way he "sais" it makes me think he's a bit
Why isn't TFA presenting the schools reasons for implementing this systems, what are it's goals, what was the process by which this solution was chosen, how were the students informed about this etc.
Oh
Re:There must be some faulty logic at stake. (Score:5, Informative)
Some parts of the society can decide that they cannot function unless they implement a certain mechanism
The fact that our society has managed to function for ages without having already implemented such a mechanism disproves your argument entirely.
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So possibility of living without a certain comfort or rule doesn't make that rule wrong or that comfort a whim.
Again, did anyone care to look into this school's reasons and rules to implement this program?
I'm not from the US so I don;t know, is this a public or a private school? If it's a public school, were they notified in advance of what will the campus life involve?
Are they free to join another school?
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Are they free to join another school?
Dear God, what has our nation come to?
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Yes, our "society" has "functioned" for ages without basic commodities too. So possibility of living without a certain comfort or rule doesn't make that rule wrong or that comfort a whim.
One of the prices we pay for living in a society that values freedom of religion, and freedom in general, is accepting a certain amount of non-conformity and sometimes making exemptions for people. For example, during WWII many people who belonged to certain religious organizations were not required to carry a weapon and kill others because they had well-known long-standing religious beliefs. In some cases they were asked to do other things such as treating wounded, but they were not required to do the k
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I agree on the privacy concerns.
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Is she forbidden to exercise her religion by wearing the number of the beast? IS there a number of the Beast? What is this beast? Can you name the existing and recognized religion where it is a known and universally accepted fact that that RFID tag is the identification mark of said Beast? Reading the bible in your own way is not exercising religion. Always doing what the bible says might be exercising religion but do you want me to get into the bible telling people to kill homosexuals?
So
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This is what I mean. Free speech is one thing ( expressing an opinion using speech, clothes, drawings etc). But if a system is put in place by a school for whatever reasons (and I'm sure they can easily prove increased eficiency of various administrative activities by using these tags) and you choose to not follow it I could call that undue interruption.
Given how wacky my high school was (Score:4, Interesting)
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They'll probably abuse it.)
Data on when the student enters and exits the classroom?
In what manner is it even possible to abuse that; which doesn't exist with normal manual attendance taking?
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They'll probably abuse it.)
Data on when the student enters and exits the classroom?
In what manner is it even possible to abuse that; which doesn't exist with normal manual attendance taking?
No, not that
Data on where/how the student spends her lunch break.
Data on when the student goes to the bathroom.
Not to mention concerns regarding fake card swipes (oh, the student is missing? But she was regularly attending every class with her friend for the last two days. With the exact same entry/exit times, too.).
Why do we even bother with schools anymore? (Score:2)
Let's just send the little delinquents straight to prison.
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I'm sorry.... I don't see the problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
If the student's religion requires that they not wear such articles, then I think it's a pretty clear case that the student should not be going to that school.
Schools, even public ones, are permitted to have dress codes, and wearing a specially issued id tag on your clothes while you are on school property is really not that big a deal. There's shouldn't be concern about being tracked off of school property because because one's location through RFID can only be tracked if they are in close proximity of an RFID reader that understands what the tag is, and who it belongs to. The RFID readers which are connected to the database of RFID tags owned by the school aren't going to be anywhere but on school property, so that's the only place where one is ever going to be tracked.
There should be no more concern that this could be used to invade somebody's privacy than an RFID card issued to an employee to get into a company building during non-office hours could reasonably represent a privacy invasion for that employee.
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Schools, even public ones, are permitted to have dress codes, and wearing a specially issued id tag on your clothes while you are on school property is really not that big a deal.
It isn't? How did my generation survive in high school without ID badges or cards?
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Schools, even public ones, are permitted to have dress codes,
And where I was brought up, not one parent and not one kid would put up with that bullshit.
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Don't be too sure (Score:3)
It's only a pilot program. As all things of the kind, their purpose is not only to test the process, but to acclimatize people to the new reality. In a little while new reality becomes "it's always been that way", and then they can move for wider application. And what better way to do so than to begin with school students. Why, you could then combine RFID databases between schools "for improved information sharing", then perhaps offer local malls, movie theaters etc. data for them to better gauge their audi
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It's not so much that I believe everybody should be tracked and monitored as much as it is that it's not really possible to track somebody using RFID outside of property that is under the control of the issuer of the RFID tag.
RFID is *NOT* GPS.
Where I work, I was given an RFID card that allows me to have 24 hour access to the building in case I ever need to go in on weekends, but it doesn't do squat to allow them to track me, other than to possibly know that I'm inside the building.
ID badges with emb
Microwave it (Score:2)
RFIDs don't react well to the microwave oven. I'm just sayin'.
Outside Agencies (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget that if each kid is required to carry their RFID card whenever they are in school they will also carry that card the vast majority of the time. Now I own a store and want to know when a certain student enters my store what prevents me from installing RFID readers in my store and reading the cards and developing a database from there.
For example: when ever card number NNNNN is in the store I have more shoplifting so I ban the student carrying that card from my store with no proof they stole anything.
We could go on from there.
I go to this high school... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:I go to this high school... (Score:4, Informative)
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Here's hoping someone with mod points sees this. Reminds me of the early slashdot, when people with first-hand information on the topic would take part in discussions.
Of course, the schoo won't make a point of enforcing it the first year beyond those who are vocal about it - everyone needs to accept that "the badges are required, the badges have always been required, that's just the way it is" before they crack down.
John Jay - Oh, the Irony (Score:5, Informative)
One of the things John Jay (US Supreme Court Justice) is known for is telling jurors that they are responsible for judging the law (the rules as handed down).
I suspect he'd be proud of the student for deciding that this particular school rule is unjust and standing up for herself.
A good point (Score:2)
I thought the attorney made a good point ...
"Regimes in the past have always started with the schools, where they develop a compliant citizenry," Whitehead continued. "These 'Student Locator' programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government."
Poor girl. She just wants to live in freedom. I wonder where she got that idea?
Re:I can understand her (Score:5, Insightful)
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RFID passports have been demonstrated to be read from meters away, in 2004 someone I trust on this one gave a number of 20 meters. [schneier.com]. The tag in question seems to include personal information embedded so it is not just an electronic key and given that even passport RFID security has been show to have weaknesses, even so much that US now includes built-in shielding [practicalhacks.com] in passports I would not automatically trust my personal info on $randomcompany's RFID implementation.
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Re:I can understand her (Score:4, Informative)
It's also extremely easy for me to point out that you didn't read the article(s) and understand why she objects to wearing it. As a fellow amateur radio "expert" I'd like to point out that the badge's transmit capability was never in question. Let alone you forget that the reader is the part that's plugged into the outlet pumping out any discernible wattage which you didn't take into consideration. Even that withstanding, it's not about radio transmissions at all. It's about privacy, the invisible man in the sky, and first amendment rights, and an overreaching school board.
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Remember we're talking about religious freedom. Ergo, your "laws of physics" are lies from the pit of hell.
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The reason this student objects against wearing an id is religious, see previously linked articles.
Interestingly, the religious aspect would apply to having an ID rather than having an RFID chip in that ID, at least that's my interpretation of how they state the objection.
And besides, people that protest so vocally against RFID are most likely people that actually know about how it works quite well. After all it's hard arguing your point if you don't know what you're talking about.
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Overbearing authority or religious nutjobs...
Kudos on actually reading the story (despite what my sig says).
However I retract those kudos for being unable to see beyond broad stereotypes to see the actual issue at hand.
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No I know where I side with the actual issue at hand. The religious nutjobs happen to be on the right side here. But handing them victory here is not clearly a good thing because it would further entrench and legitimize the special treatment of religious beliefs. Will atheists who just don't want to wear these things get to turn them down or will you have to say that Sky Dad doesn't want you to wear them?