2 Year Data Retention For Australian ISPs 86
freddienumber13 writes "Following similar acts passed by foreign governments, the Australian government is now seeking feedback on its plans to bring into law the requirement for ISPs to retain user data for up to 2 years. They're also seeking changes to the law that would allow undercover ASIO agents and its sources to commit crimes which would include, for example, hacking into your computer."
Sincerely hope this doesn't happen (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope our pollies' blatant disregard of anything other than what will make them the most popular will contrive to prevent this from being passed!
Also, first.
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Kinda sad the only political party against this is the Greens.
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australia doesn't have politicians anymore. politics was privatized and is now run by the mob at Fremantle Media that handle Big Brother.
i wish i could vote for some person or party that weren't just the least worst. i'd like to vote for someone i actually agree with.
the greens are as close as i can get, but they're certainly not perfect, and in any case number 2 on the ballot will end up with the vote, so i'm just bit-shifting my inevitable choice between labor and lib.
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Re:Sincerely hope this doesn't happen (Score:5, Informative)
in this country, we say "ARSE". we also don't say "we the people".
australian patriots have appropriated a disturbing amount of american sentiments without even knowing.
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First time it's happened in almost 10 years of slashdotting. I stand by it with pride.
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Re:Fuck you Australia. (Score:5, Insightful)
People say the USA is bad, but Australia seems to have the most draconian internet legislation I've heard of.
This is US policy by proxy. The US pushes foreign governments into doing stuff like this in return for "cooperation", especially trade agreements.
Re:Fuck you Australia. (Score:5, Interesting)
>This is US policy by proxy.
That it is, and if it's not direct, it's a wink and a nod, because our politicians can then turn around and tell us here in the states that we need to "harmonise" with our trade partners, and thus things like SOPA and Lamar Smith's recent shenanigans by chopping up SOPA into smaller bits and getting the pieces passed.
It's a gigantic circle jerk with nobody's actual rights, or even opinions, being considered except those of the media companies and the statists.
Just wait for Romney to be elected. The fix is in.
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BMO
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>This is US policy by proxy.
That it is, and if it's not direct, it's a wink and a nod, because our politicians can then turn around and tell us here in the states that we need to "harmonise" with our trade partners, and thus things like SOPA and Lamar Smith's recent shenanigans by chopping up SOPA into smaller bits and getting the pieces passed.
It's a gigantic circle jerk with nobody's actual rights, or even opinions, being considered except those of the media companies and the statists.
Just wait for Romney to be elected. The fix is in.
--
BMO
Not only is everything the fault of Republicans, this is even true when the things happening are in other countries *and* when State is run by liberals and the administration and Senate are run by Democrats. Unbelievable.
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>Not only is everything the fault of Republicans, this is even true when the things happening are in other countries *and* when State is run by liberals and the administration and Senate are run by Democrats. Unbelievable.
Currently it's the fault of the Republicans but we have had people previously like Senator Disney (aka Hollings) and Sonny Bono. Remember them? It all depends on who gets bought the most. The one needing to be bought this time just happens to be Lamar Smith since he runs the Judiciar
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Currently it's the fault of the Republicans
Again, look at who's actually been in charge for the last three years and in control of such things. The baton won't be passed on to the Republicans until they win the next election.
But what I was referencing in my closing statement about Romney was the foreign policy people he's got as his advisors and future members of the Cabinet. He's got the entire board, except for one obvious person, from the Foreign Policy Initiative, aka PNAC II. You think bullying American influence is bad now under Obama? Just you wait.
Well, that would explain why the vote flipper phenomena (don't have a good summary of the effect, though it is IMHO probably voter fraud through rigged vote tabulation, but here's a huge collection [google.com] of discussion, graphs, and informal studies of from that time) was going on in the Republican primaries. A collection of the same o
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>Again, look at who's actually been in charge for the last three years and in control of such things.
The people in charge of SOPA and such, where all this shit originates, are the Republicans in the House Judiciary Committee which they own. If you watched (I did) the mark-up meeting, nearly every Republican was voting against every sensible amendment. Fortunately it died then, but Lamar Smith (R) is trying to shoehorn the worst of it in pieces now and he's got the rest of the committee behind him. Aga
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...
Just wait for Romney to be elected. The fix is in.
I heard that 4 years ago with Obama.
Hope and Change.
I lost hope and can't afford to make change.
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Funny how it always harmonises towards oppressive control.
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Let me think of a mod...
Funny? no.
Insightful? no. It's pretty obvious.
Informative? only if you've been living under a rock
Redundant? per the rules, it hasn't been repeated excessively, so no.
Overrated? don't know, probably not. This is a chickenshit mod anyway.
Underrated? Hasn't been already modded down, so no.
+1 "sad and disappointing to everyone who reads it because it reminds them of the reality. I'm gonna take some valium."
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BMO
Re:Fuck you Australia. (Score:5, Informative)
People say the USA is bad, but Australia seems to have the most draconian internet legislation I've heard of.
This is US policy by proxy. The US pushes foreign governments into doing stuff like this in return for "cooperation", especially trade agreements.
Hear, hear... [wikipedia.org]
huge wishlist of new surveillance powers here (Score:5, Informative)
"The final terms of reference for the inquiry match the proposals sent to the committee by Roxon, and include the controversial 2 year data retention proposal long urged by Attorney-Generalâ(TM)s bureaucrats. However, the committee has now also published a discussion paper prepared by the Attorney-Generalâ(TM)s Department to commence the inquiry, outlining the rationale for three types of proposals: those the government wants to progress, those it is considering, and those it is merely seeking views on."
http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=pjcis/nsl2012/additional/discussion%20paper.pdf [aph.gov.au]
Only 2 years ? (Score:1)
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1984 (Score:3, Insightful)
Orwell's 1984 was supposed to be a warning Ms Roxon, not a guidebook for you.
Wow... (Score:1)
So this blows my mind, I actually thought that Australia was an amazing country to live in, if you ignore all the deadly animals, enormous spiders and godzilla-like snakes.
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Yep. Most states here have decriminalised cannabis laws .... No idea what this has to do with data retention though...
You obviously don't smoke much cannabis if you don't know what that has to do with data retention....
Too many weasels (Score:3, Interesting)
Who are the weasels who think up shit like this ? I'm reasonably certain that if any citizen obtained the communication history of any other, they'd be thrown in jail.
When these moronic wombles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP7CDvQULXw) get the sack, Australia will be a better place.
Keystone Spys (Score:1)
Don't worry the privacy invasions will be totally random and you may sue them afterwards http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/asio-settles-out-of-court-over-botched-raid-case/2005/11/01/1130823210697.html
would allow ASIO agents to commit crimes... (Score:3, Funny)
With police like these, who needs criminals?
Feedback (Score:5, Insightful)
Asking for feedback? You know what that means? It means that if you are Australian then you really ought to tell them what you think about this. Ideally before the end of the month to be sure that your feedback can be read before the hearings start.
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Ideally before the end of the month to be sure that your feedback can be read before the hearings start.
And then roundly ignored for those who just dropped a few bags of cash off.
much more permissive warrant regime as well (Score:5, Informative)
"Modernise and streamline ASIOâ(TM)s warrant provisions" means fixing these perceived problems:
naturally, there are solutions proposed for all these issues !
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Classic Fishing (Score:2)
Classic fishing, choose the person you want to arrest, then fish till you find something to arrest them for. In the UK we have a catchall law, the 'extreme porn' law, that makes it a criminal offence to view porn that is classed as 'extreme' (pretty much all of it except vag penetration).
It's been used several times now to put people away as a side crime after the search of computers and Internet data failed to make a case against the person they wanted to arrest.
Egypt just elected a government, and the mil
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Disclaimer: I'm Australian, so this affects me directly.
First of all, unlike some of the equivalent three-letter American agencies, ASIO is allowed to spy on Australian citizens. I personally disagree with this, but that's what the current constitution, the law, and their mandate allows. There are certainly cases where domestic spying may be useful. Uncovering trafficking, terrorist cells, counter-espionage, etc...
Now, given that what they're doing is legal and may in some cases be useful, what they are req
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Consider the legal illogic of attempting to legally allow remote hacking of a computer. The very first thing they have proven is that the computer can be remotely hacked and information placed on it and taken from it outside of the users control. Benefit of the doubt, means they have proven that any evidence taken from the computer can therefore no longer be trusted, unless the investigatory agency can prove globally unique skills and ability.
The question will be asked why would somebody want to hack the
It's coming, even though we don't want it (Score:5, Insightful)
So much for a fucking democracy. Virtually none of us want this and yet it'll still get passed.
And what the fuck is going on here: the same politicians who want all of our secrets are keeping mum when it comes to themselves:
Web snooping policy shrouded in secrecy [smh.com.au]
No Minister: 90% of web snoop document censored to stop 'premature unnecessary debate' [smh.com.au]
How the FUCK did we end up in this bizarro world?
Re:It's coming, even though we don't want it (Score:4, Funny)
How the FUCK did we end up in this bizarro world?
This is how:
Gillard FTW [memegenerator.net]
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No actually, Tony Abbott supports this junk just as much, Howard his sugar daddy was the one pushing us to do what the US was doing with their stupid patriot act style junk.
This is the USA trying to force it's stupid policies on us, if this is how they want to play I would prefer closer ties with china instead.
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They haven't forced stupid policies on us?
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Umm... NOONE knows what Tony Abbott supports (including himself), except saying no to the government.
Clarke and Dawe captured this brilliantly (IMHO):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3wKCzIw5Gs&feature=plcp [youtube.com]
PS If any politician is reading this, I am willing to vote for any party that opposes this.
I wish Gamers 4 Croyden (i think that was the party name) were in my area.
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So much for a fucking democracy. Virtually none of us want this and yet it'll still get passed.
And what the fuck is going on here: the same politicians who want all of our secrets are keeping mum when it comes to themselves:
Web snooping policy shrouded in secrecy [smh.com.au]
No Minister: 90% of web snoop document censored to stop 'premature unnecessary debate' [smh.com.au]
How the FUCK did we end up in this bizarro world?
By not doing anything.
You want change? go make change, namely, get the right people in office, any way you can.
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You want change? go make change, namely, get the right people in office, any way you can.
where (on earth) does this work? I ask, honestly.
I don't see any voting system that is honest and transparent enough to trust. I don't see any country that has a system where the people really do get their say and bad politicos are ousted in quick time. I don't see checks and balances working in any country. care to name this fantasy country you think exists??
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I'm glad you said 'world' and not any one country.
I think what we are seeing is the end of mankind. yes, I'm being a little dramatic but I don't see evidence of humanity being sustaining, in the long-run. there is just not enough evidence that people and their 'ruling systems' understand how to make things work long-term. eventually, even our best efforts at trying to be fair and just are not working! world-wide.
this is a mankind style problem, not a cultural or geographic one. we are seeing what man i
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Here's a suggestion (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets have TOTAL TRANSPARENCY in government first (let's call it wikileaks diplomatic cables on steroids) AND then, and only then can you record any conversation or discussion or action for two or more years of those you govern... Feels different when it's on the other foot doesn't it...
I would write my local MP and complain... (Score:3)
But I am in a somewhat safe liberal seat and writing to Steve Irons is likely to get no response or some sort of canned response about how important this is for the security of our nation.
Why is that ever okay? (Score:3)
If it's not okay for a private citizen to do, why should it ever be okay for the government to do? I haven't read the article, so unless they mean getting a court order in order to break into someone's computer (call it what it is), then I don't see it as being okay. (I'm not Austrlian.)
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(I'm not Austrlian.)
Well... if you pronounce it the way you spell it I reckon we could give you a passport.
'Stralya will also pass.
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Two things you need to know about Australia:
1) There is no Bill or Charter of Rights. The Government can technically do whatever it wants.
BUT:
2) The pool of 'swing' voters (those people who don't vote for a particular political party no-matter-what -- many people here vote the way their parents did just out of tradition) is very small, and thus the Government of the day is very sensitive to an upset electorate, since a single issue can see them removed from office.
Historically, the system has worked given 1
Log printer (Score:3)
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It comes bundled in a nice single downloadable package now.
You get Vidalia, TOR, and Firefox, all preconfigured and ready to go.
Use it ALL THE TIME, not just when (if) you're doing something squirrelly.
Privacy is not a crime.
(heh, and the capcha this time was "despots")
That's fine if everyone else is doing it, but if you are the only one and the feds ask the ISP to provide data on anyone using TOR, you'll stand out and draw attention to yourself.
If you are planning on doing something "squirrelly", I strongly suggest that you encourage everyone else to use encryption... that's what i'd be doing if I was a "drug lord" or something. Hell I'd even finance development of an easy to use encryption setup.
ASIO (Score:1)
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ASIO don't handle domestic intelligence. So the only reason they would crack into someone's computer would be for foreign threats.
Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Security_Intelligence_Organisation [wikipedia.org] disagrees with you
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) is Australia's national security service, which is responsible for the protection of the country and its citizens from espionage, sabotage, acts of foreign interference, politically motivated violence, attacks on the Australian defence system, and terrorism.[2][3]
ASIO is comparable with the United Kingdom Security Service (MI5) and the United States' Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). As with MI5 officers, ASIO officers have no police powers of arrest and are not armed.[4][5] ASIO operations requiring police powers are co-ordinated with the Australian Federal Police and/or with State and Territory police forces.
Maybe you have them confused with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Secret_Intelligence_Service [wikipedia.org]... or maybe have the brain capacity of one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asio [wikipedia.org]
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Q: Is ASIO the 'domestic' security service?
A: No. ASIO operates wherever threats to Australia and Australian interests occur, and its mandate is not limited geographically. The Organisation works collaboratively with international intell
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If you make it up to ASIS your in more trouble. Their 1950's founding, training and ongoing missions are much more secret. They work with Australian special forces as tourists around t
Time to member up the Pirate Party of Australia (Score:5, Informative)
http://pirateparty.org.au/ [pirateparty.org.au]
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In Australia, we use an instant-run-off preference voting system. That means you can vote for your candidates in order of preference. The end effect is that if you really like the Pirate Party, but would be ok with the Greens, followed by the others, then you can put the Pirate Party candidate as #1, the Green candidate as #2, etc.
And when the votes are tallied, if the winner can't be automatically resolved with #1 votes (which only happens if a candidate has so many votes that no amount of further tallying
What could possibly go wrong? (Score:4, Interesting)
Pretty useful for nefarious purposes to have access to the last two years of somebody's traffic...
Identity theft will be impossible to guard against.
The ISPs responsible for storing all this data, need to do it at the lowest possible cost. That always works out well....
The best bit will be the assumption that all this data collected from the ISP couldn't possibly be wrong, incomplete, or misleading.
Framing people for child pornography, murder, terrorism, sedition, etc, will become really really easy -- gain access to someone's LAN, and you can paint a big red X on them that lasts two years!
Aside from coming up with a better system of government that won't use Orwell as a how-to guide, we need to massively ramp up the level of cryptographic protection considered acceptable -- a million orders of magnitude ought to slow the bastards up for a while....
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Who pays for this storage? Rent, Insurance, Electricity (now with carbon tax) adds up.
Gutless ISP's not telling us it will add $5 or $100 a year extra on top of what we are paying now.
Risk: If people think they are being watched, they behave differently, and may go back to dead drops.
The solution is to 'Cloud' it with the cheapest provider, and that would be China or HK. Now assume all the Ministers and their families and relatives history records were read off and mined (or in case of royals sold) and use
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I had always wondered about the storage requirements of data retention policies, on first glance to me it seems prohibitive?