Carderprofit.cc Was FBI Carding Sting, Nets 26 Arrests 181
tsu doh nimh writes in with news of a major sting operation against carders. From the article: "The U.S. Justice Department today unveiled the results of a two-year international cybercrime sting that culminated in the arrest of 26 people accused of trafficking in hundreds of thousands of stolen credit and debit card accounts. Among those arrested was an alleged core member of 'UGNazi,' a malicious hacking group that has claimed responsibility for a flood of recent attacks on Internet businesses."
The trick: the FBI ran a carding forum as a honeypot.
Re:No this isnt entrapment (Score:5, Informative)
A quick primer on entrapment:
If you are trolling Drug Dealer Drive for drugs and you happen to ask a undercover agent for drugs, you are guilty.
If a undercover agent posing as a drug dealer comes to you out of the blue and says that you need to buy his drugs so that he can help his sweet grandmother beat cancer, that's entrapment.
The difference is that in the first example, you were already out with the intention of doing something illegal. The second example you were approached by LEO and convinced to do something you normally wouldn't do.
IANAL and I'm sure each jurisdiction has it's own definition of entrapment but this is the jist.
Re:No this isnt entrapment (Score:5, Informative)
Here's what entrapment is [tumblr.com], as explained by a lawyer, in an appropriately visual format to appease the attention span of most Slashdotters.
Re:The trick? (Score:3, Informative)
PROTIP: In Germany, that behavior is illegal for a reason.
The very same reason, the content Mafia can’t set up file sharing servers and downloads, and then sue people for downloading that.
It means you are part of the crime. (But hey, the FBI is used to that like no other...)
And that means you can't sue, without incriminating yourself too.
Yes, this not also counts for the police, but counts ESPECIALLY for the police, which is held to a higher standard.
Re:So, I guess, if FBI does it, (Score:5, Informative)
Then it is not illegal.
It's called undercover police work, and undercover police work is perfectly legal, including the commission of various non-violent crimes required to maintain their cover.
The cops weren't out there having TVs shipped to their houses and not documenting them so the victims wouldn't be reimbursed. They were hosting a forum, and made it look like other similar on-line criminal hangouts. When real criminals arrived, they maintained the forum long enough to accumulate enough evidence (IDs of suspects, records of criminal activity), then rolled them up.
They did their jobs, successfully.
Re:The trick? (Score:5, Informative)
PROTIP: In Germany, that behavior is illegal for a reason.
The very same reason, the content Mafia canâ(TM)t set up file sharing servers and downloads, and then sue people for downloading that.
It means you are part of the crime. (But hey, the FBI is used to that like no other...)
And that means you can't sue, without incriminating yourself too.
No, while both are illegal, it's for different reasons. One is called "unclean hands", and the other is called "entrapment".
If VISA had set up a site and participated in hacking VISA cards, they would have unclean hands. It would change their status.
If a three letter agency does the same, and it causes people who otherwise would not have done that particular crime to do it, it's called entrapment. It would change the suspect's status.
Re:The trick? (Score:5, Informative)
This is not automatically entrapment. The sting is just like a drugs for sale or prostitution on a street corner. Undercover cop wearing a wire and being videotaped by concealed police sits on stragetic street corner known to be hot with drugs or prostitution. The undercover cop is dressed to bait the individual seeking the drugs/services they believe the undercover is there to provide. When the individual atempts to solicit for purchase the drugs/services they are arrested for that crime.
It is only entrapment if the person is induced to commit a crime "he or she is not previously disposed to commit".
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/entrapment [thefreedictionary.com]
An important and often argued point.
Re:The trick? (Score:5, Informative)
If a three letter agency does the same, and it causes people who otherwise would not have done that particular crime to do it, it's called entrapment. It would change the suspect's status.
This is a common and incorrect understanding of entrapment. It's entrapment if the FBI tells you to steal credit cards, and then arrests you for it. It is not entrapment if the FBI makes credit cards available to be stolen, and then arrests you for it stealing them, The former is an example of the FBI pressuring you to do something you wouldn't have done. The latter is an example of the FBI facilitating you to do something you would have done, given an opportunity.
Entrapment: You should hire that hitman to kill your wife.
Not entrapment: I'm a hitman. Do you want to kill your wife?
Re:The trick? (Score:5, Informative)
This is a common and incorrect understanding of entrapment.
One shared by the Supreme Court Of The United States.
They incorrectly claim that the prosecution must overcome a "subjective test" by showing the defendant had a predisposition to commit the crime in any event, even if the law enforcement operatives had not been present.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/287/435/case.html [justia.com]
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/503/540/case.html [justia.com]
I think you need to go teach these justices the errors of their ways.
Re:No this isnt entrapment (Score:4, Informative)
First, you messed up your link. Corrected [nytimes.com].
Second, from the start of the article:
"When an Oregon college student, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, thought of using a car bomb to attack a festive Christmas-tree lighting ceremony in Portland, the F.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of "inert material," harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to make the van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving, with Mr. Mohamud in the passenger seat. To trigger the bomb the student punched a number into a cellphone and got no boom, only a bust."
Emphasis mine. This is not entrapment at all. The attack was his idea. The feds just helped him along to show he was willing to go through with it. It's no different than if somebody asked a bartender about a hitman to kill their spouse, and then the feds supplied them with one.
The Cromitie case is much more dubious, and if it's true he wasn't actively seeking to become a jihadist, I feel it is entrapment. But I also feel that way about cops dropping bills on the subway and arresting people who pick them up and keep them, or cops who leave unlocked vehicles with keys in the ignition in bad neighborhoods.