US Ordered To Hand Over Megaupload Documents 242
An anonymous reader writes "A judge in New Zealand has ordered the U.S. government to hand over evidence seized in the Megaupload raid so Kim Dotcom and his co-defendants can use it to prepare a defense for an extradition hearing. The judge wrote, 'Actions by and on behalf of the requesting State have deprived Mr. Dotcom and his associates of access to records and information. ... United States is attempting to utilize concepts from the civil copyright context as a basis for the application of criminal copyright liability [which] necessitates a consideration of principles such as the dual use of technology and what they be described as significant non-infringing uses.' Once the defense attorneys have gathered and presented their evidence, the judge must decide whether the U.S. can make a reasonable case against Dotcom."
docs need to prove conspiracy.. (Score:5, Interesting)
docs need to prove conspiracy for extradition.
however, the defense would like it's hand on the evidence so they can show the police fucked up(afaik the computers are supposed to have security cam footage from the raid).
this is also a test if the fbi/etc can even hand over the evidence(I suppose they should have also had something prior to the bust to prove the conspiracy)...
I observed an unusual tone in the statement... (Score:5, Interesting)
Usually, it is the US that orders other jurisdictions to hand over stuff...not the other way round! This leads me to one conclusion:
It will not work! This request is DoA! Moot...name it!
Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually - as this thing is going it is more than likely that the US will loose and fail to get any extradition or other conviction.
Remember, everything hinges on thumped-up charge of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement which is ludicrous because MegaUpload did not sell access to the illegal stuff, nor did they ask or otherwise entice the pirates to use their services. They were just one of many cloud storage and sharing service providers that both pirates and everybody else used. You paid for longer storage time, more storage space and more bandwidth to access/download. Access was free otherwise, which means that downloaders didn't pay for access but paid for ease of access.
Oh, and when the US loses this case, I can't wait for the counter-suit for damages. I would laugh my pants off when the US government is ordered to cover the damages incurred during this farce of a trial. I hope Kim Dotcom takes them to the cleaners and take everything to the max. Get them to pay so obscene amounts that heads will have to roll and the collaboration with the copyright MAFIAA is dropped like a hot potato.
Missing the point (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe the most significant quote from the statement is this:
"United States is attempting to utilize concepts from the civil copyright context as a basis for the application of criminal copyright liability [which] necessitates a consideration of principles such as the dual use of technology and what they be described as significant non-infringing uses."
In other words, the NZ government realizes this is a misuse of the justice system to allow the US government to prosecute a civil case as a criminal one without giving the defendant access to evidence. The significant problem here is that the rights of the right-holder is being held to a higher standard than the rights of the defendant in this case.
I'm not attempting to say Mr. Dotcom is completely innocent in this case, but the US legal system has destroyed his business, confiscated his assets and likely taken away his future without due process and without a conviction of any crime at this point. Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?
Re:Dear USA (Score:5, Interesting)
The US produces very little? It's incredibly obvious to tell you're trolling with statements like that.
Actually from my point of view, I'd have to agree with the GP.
I can't think of a single item I own that was actually made in USA. I own plenty of stuff made by US companies, but as far as I'm aware not on US soil.
At one stage I thought my mountain bike was actually made in the US, but then I found a sticker that disproved that (can't remember where it said now)
A brief survey of most stuff I own indicates that most of it came from China, followed by Taiwan and various other Asian countries.
That's one of the big issues I see with the "first world". We don't actually make the stuff any more that got us to that position in the first place. How long before the rest of the world doesn't need us any more?
Re:Dear USA (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Dear USA (Score:5, Interesting)
More seriously, the SNP did hold up the "arc of prosperity" of the Republic of Ireland, Iceland and Norway as the shining examples of how small Atlantic nations could be amazingly prosperous and how much better it would be if Scotland was independent and part of that...
Fast forward a couple of years and Ireland is tanked by being one of the loser economies in the Euro (a currency which basically only works for Germany and while the French might think it works for them too, I think they have a surprise brewing) and Iceland banks got shredded by their exposure to toxic assets forcing the whole nation to the brink.
Which basically just leaves Norway doing well out of the original "arc of prosperity". So the current SNP line is "things would be better if we were like Norway".
Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
well, if you count going purely on fbi agents word then they didn't act with zero evidence. if they had gone with something more substantial the raid wouldn't have needed to be in such a hurry and could have gone through the proper procedure - but as it is the warrant could probably have been fought against legally - had they been given the chance.
obviously the nz authorities assumed that fbi wouldn't be bullshitting so badly but they were, full knowing that the actual suspected crime wasn't enough for extradition even.
and the fbi agents thought they could get kim to settle "for less jailtime" regardless of the actual crime since that's the standard in usa - and now they're in trouble because they would need to come up with some real evidence to show that it's actually a criminal case that should be tried in usa.
Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
They aren't saying they haven't seen enough evidence to say Dotcom is guilty of a crime, they are saying that he has a right to defend himself against extradition and that defense needs to be able to review evidence for and against that charge.
Various news outlets in NZ tried to talk to just about everyone (PM, Crown, etc) and find out whether FBI presented evidence (and what evidence was that) before raid was ordered, who exactly authorized the raid, negotiated with FBI, etc.
Everyone refused to talk to media about these issue. As if they're not public servants paid by taxpayers' money, but working in a private company and can decline to comment.
In short - noone (except police, I guess) knows what evidence NZ police has seen before the raid. They might have not seen any evidence, for all we know.
Re:Dear USA (Score:5, Interesting)
The US still exports gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, the majority from imported crude oil. We also export "computers and electronics", which the components are provided by overseas firms. For example, if Dell sells a metric fucktonne of computers from the US warehouses, it was an "export", even though it was assembled in a foreign country with foreign parts. Our other major exports are transportation equipment, chemicals, machinery, and agricultural products.
That ignores the real problem though. The components use to make most of those are manufactured out of country. The US has gone from being an industrial source, to being an industrial middle-man. So, you will find stickers indicating almost everything you buy was manufactured in foreign countries. Quite a bit of the food you eat was grown in foreign countries. The car you drive, or at least the components, came from foreign countries.
Being an industrial middle-man has benefits for the corporations based here, but for few others. They already know it's cheaper to manufacture overseas. They can have their call centers overseas. Since the US economy is down, they sell overseas. That leaves fewer and fewer jobs in the US, less consumer spending capability in the US, and is drawing us down into the collapse of the US economy.
Re:Dear USA (Score:5, Interesting)
Carefull, looking at them in the wrong way can land you sexual harassment charges in Sweden ...
Re:They Forgot (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately they probably haven't. Megaupload appears to have been operating within the law. I suspect a fairly substantial chunk of what's stored there is legitimate, or at least not provably copyright infringing. They're also up against someone who's a lot more legally savvy than the kids who ran TPB, and were possibly a bit overconfident.
Re:Dear USA (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure half of Europe didn't want to you stop being isolationist the first time. And your intervention in WW1 probably caused WW2, so you shouldn't feel to proud about having to come back to fix the mess you helped create.
Re:Dear USA (Score:5, Interesting)
The Chinese currency is currently, artificially, kept very low. It has been for a very long while. NPR Report from 2006 on Yaun manipulation [npr.org]
If the Yaun were more influenced by the market like the rest of the world, it would be balancing much quicker. The issue has very little to do with what US workers are willing to work for and more to do with what corporations are willing to pay. With the current unemployment rates in the US, you could stock a factory with minimum wage, skilled laborers, without an issue. But that still can't compete on a resource cost level with a stifled Yaun.
Even so, as skilled production work moves to China, wages continue to increase due to labor shortages. NY Times article on the wage and labor issue [nytimes.com]. It is starting to even out, and we'll likely see more jobs returning to US shores as an equilibrium as reached.