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Piracy Politics

French Elections Could Affect HADOPI, ACTA 153

Posted by timothy
from the strategic-surrender-in-order-sometimes dept.
bs0d3 writes "From having a position in the development and support of ACTA, to implementation of HADOPI, to imposing an internet tax to pay for music; France has been at the forefront of anti-piracy legislation. This week, it has been announced that current President and anti-piracy advocate Nicolas Sarkozy is unlikely to win the next election. His leading opponent is a man named Francois Hollande. Hollande has in the past opposed both ACTA and HADOPI (France's 3 strikes law). Hollande believes that ACTA, 'originally intended to combat counterfeiting trade[,] was gradually diverted from its objective, in the utmost discretion and without any democratic process.' At the same time, Hollande is also strongly against piracy. 'Piracy has been costly,' Hollande said, 'but I do not think that law enforcement alone is the answer to the problem.' Will internet issues be of concern to the voters in France? It certainly is to the rest of us internet users."
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French Elections Could Affect HADOPI, ACTA

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  • Too early to tell (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jedi Alec (258881) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @05:48PM (#39765793)

    Considering Sarkozy got only 1% less of the vote than Hollande in the first round, it's far too early to call it. All the folks that voted for other candidates will pick 1 of the 2 in the next round, and considering the massive amount of votes that went to Le Pen...we might very well be seeing more of Sarkozy.

    • Re:Too early to tell (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsborg (111459) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:35PM (#39766113) Homepage

      Considering Sarkozy got only 1% less of the vote than Hollande in the first round, it's far too early to call it. All the folks that voted for other candidates will pick 1 of the 2 in the next round, and considering the massive amount of votes that went to Le Pen...we might very well be seeing more of Sarkozy.

      There are a lot bad signs for Sarkozy. For one, this is the first election in France's 5th republic where the sitting president didn't come out on top in the first-round popular vote [1]. Another is that Sarkozy has yielded his platform to the extreme right - this not only transfers power in the hands of Le Pen, but will piss off many of the non-extreme right wing voters. He has a very tough fight coming up, and I predict, barring any last-minute gimmicks/scandals, he'll lose it.

      [1] http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/04/hollande-beats-sarkozy-in-french-first-round-voting/ [vanguardngr.com]

    • Re:Too early to tell (Score:5, Informative)

      by cheesecake23 (1110663) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:43PM (#39766165)

      Considering Sarkozy got only 1% less of the vote than Hollande in the first round, it's far too early to call it. All the folks that voted for other candidates will pick 1 of the 2 in the next round, and considering the massive amount of votes that went to Le Pen...we might very well be seeing more of Sarkozy.

      Maybe, but according to exit polls in round 1 [parismatch.com], the 18% who voted for Le Pen are only leaning 48/31 for Sarkozy over Hollande, while the 11% who voted for Mélenchon are leaning 83/6 for Hollande over Sarkozy. The poll shows Hollande leading by 9 points, 54.5% vs 45.5%.

    • by znrt (2424692) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:57PM (#39766243)

      Considering Sarkozy got only 1% less of the vote than Hollande in the first round, it's far too early to call it. All the folks that voted for other candidates will pick 1 of the 2 in the next round, and considering the massive amount of votes that went to Le Pen...we might very well be seeing more of Sarkozy.

      true. besides, even if hollande got to power he would pretty soon change his mind on the subject, like any and every other european leader has done. it would just take a few phone calls, if at all necessary. the only difference would be that while sarko just barks, hollande would dish out some justifying bland rethoric. these matters just float high above politics.

      that not to mention that nowadays any socialist party in europe could be as socialistic as, say, us democrats. with some exceptions in scandinavia, maybe. if real political change in europe does not come from a social revolution, don't expect it before the next generation of politicians pitches in. if at all.

      • Re:Too early to tell (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Luckyo (1726890) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @07:32PM (#39766413)

        There is one difference though. To Sarkozy, piracy and copyright infringement is personal because of his wife. To Hollande, it's business as usual.

      • . if real political change in europe does not come from a social revolution, don't expect it before the next generation of politicians pitches in. if at all.

        I'm curious what sort of change you're expecting to see. Confiscation of property from the wealthy? Minor pension changes? Because I guarantee there will never be a social revolution based on copyright. 90% of the people don't care about copyright issues, and half of those that do are satisfied as long as they can pirate.

        • Because I guarantee there will never be a social revolution based on copyright.

          There will be if they actually start cutting off substantial numbers of people from the Internet, particularly if a significant proportion of those people didn't actually commit the crimes they are accused of but got punished extra-judicially anyway.

      • by dave420 (699308)
        That's a lot of guesswork there, compadre. An awful lot.
  • Right to be left.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by uhuru_meditation (2573595) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @05:50PM (#39765829)
    If only Germans would get rid of Merkel and Dutch of their freaky Wilders things in Europe would already look a lot different and imported ideas of "freedom" from USA including SOPA, CISPA would be laughed at and rejected with an ease. Soon...
    • by Dekker3D (989692) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:03PM (#39765903)

      As a dutchman, I'm telling you that plenty of us would be happy to kick Wilders out of the country-... or better yet, launch him on a one-way trip to space if we can. But we can't seem to get him out of our politics democratically because a lot of christians vote for him out of fear of muslims.

      Apparently, for some of us any muslim is worth losing all common sense over. I guess.. that's some bonus points to them muslim-folks?
      Seriously though, this deserves a huge facepalm.

      • Well, there was this bold guy, Pim, prevented in time to enter the parliament and mess up The Netherlands...not that it was very democratic, but it was surely very effective.
      • by Anonymous Coward

        As a dutchman, I'm telling you that plenty of us would be happy to kick Wilders out of the country

        In other words, you disagree with the majority of your voters? You sound like a particularly bitter political person one who blames the majority of your countrymen's as being fearful idiots who simply vote for someone for one obviously bad reason. I somehow doubt that's the real truth behind it, as it comes off pretty much like American politics and how one political party endlessly describes the other, including the "they fear Muslims" line.

        And regarding this topic, one would have to be ignorant if you t

        • by Thiez (1281866) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:45PM (#39766173)

          > In other words, you disagree with the majority of your voters?

          The majority of voters did not vote for Wilders, so what's your point again?

        • by Incadenza (560402) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @07:26PM (#39766379)

          As a dutchman, I'm telling you that plenty of us would be happy to kick Wilders out of the country

          In other words, you disagree with the majority of your voters? You sound like a particularly bitter political person one who blames the majority of your countrymen's as being fearful idiots who simply vote for someone for one obviously bad reason.

          You know there are countries that have more than two political parties? Where you can 'win' an election (with the most votes) because you are the largest minority?

          In the last Dutch election Wilders got 24 of the 150 seats in the Dutch parliament, making his party the third largest party in Dutch parliament (behind the VVD - 31 seats - and the PvdA - 30 seats). Hardly a majority isn't it?

        • by interkin3tic (1469267) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @10:44PM (#39767281)

          In other words, you disagree with the majority of your voters?

          I think in any democracy, from time to time, we all agree with Churchill when elections don't go the way we think they should: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

          • by Kjella (173770)

            I think in any democracy, from time to time, we all agree with Churchill when elections don't go the way we think they should: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

            Well if I was sick I wouldn't take a poll, I'd go see a doctor. But if you're looking for a way to run the country, then taking a poll is a good idea? Democracy makes plenty mistakes, the only saving grace is really that we're all in on it. It doesn't not stop you from banging your head on the wall shouting "OMG you've got to be kidding me they can't be this stupid, didn't you learn anything from last time?!" And it's obvious that what's good for the majority is not always what's good for the people, like t

      • I vote that we start working on a chemical weapon which can be deployed over key electorate areas on election day which will temporarily prevent people from voting based on paranoia and irrational fears.

        But THEY are probably expecting that...
    • by PartyBoy!911 (611650) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:17PM (#39765977)
      Well Wilders has messed up the current coalition at least: http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-government-brink-collapse [www.rnw.nl] Geert Wilders has withdrawn his partyâ(TM)s support for the Dutch coalition government and has called for new elections. Prime Minister Mark Rutte says new elections are now very likely. But we don't know how many votes he'll get next round. Currently they are down 5 seats to 19 in parlemant in the poll's.
    • by MtHuurne (602934)

      As much as I dislike most of Wilders' ideas, his party did vote for network neutrality and against ratification of ACTA.

      After this weekend's events, I don't think any other party is eager to having Wilders as an ally any time soon. So while he'll continue to create noise in the media, at least we can get a new government that is not held hostage by him.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Neil Boekend (1854906)
        He, most probably, voted for network netrality because he knew it wouldn't fly anyways and doing so would gain him popularity. He also proposed a closing of the borders for Polish workers, just because he couldn't get it done anyways (European law and all that. Internationally it wasn't a wise plan), in order to gain publicity.

        Politics is a game to him.

        I am glad our kabinet crashed. There is no conceivable way the next kabinet will be as unstable and insane as this one (Wilders wasn't really in the ka
    • Soon? Hardly. Too many parties in the Netherlands are in favor of ACTA, or will support it out of political expediency. And that goes for a lot of similar issues. It's pretty sad that for many 'digital' rights, we have to turn to the left. Our Liberals (here it means something like very soft core libertarians; they are centre-right) never really got these issues, and they've gone from bad to worse in the last 2 years of governing.

      Still, it's not enough to make me vote socialist ...
      • "Liberal" parties in Europe are mostly "business liberal". Don't expect them to do anything for your liberties, what they care about is unfettered and unregulated business. Or rather, regulating you in favor of businesses.

        And judging from the recent elections in Germany, it seems the Germans found out about that...

  • by zAPPzAPP (1207370) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:17PM (#39765983)

    What a bold idea.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Yeah, let's all Hope for a Change when the new guy comes in. Surely he will abolish all the old power structures in order to fulfill all of his campaign promises.

    • Not bloody likely. He may try to implement some ideas, but as soon as he tries to issue debt the cold reality will be like a dog running full speed hitting the end of his leash.

    • Yep. France != US. However much they try to be the Americans of Europe.
    • Don't get your hopes up. If elections could really change anything, they would've been outlawed a while ago.

  • by DNS-and-BIND (461968) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:42PM (#39766157) Homepage

    Huh? How'd this make the front page? French internal politics? And such a narrow, parochial viewpoint, too. "A man named Francois Hollande"? That's the best we can do to characterize the man? How about this snippet from The Wikipedia, the Source of all Knowledge: "On 16 October 2011, Hollande was nominated to be the Socialist and Left Radical Party candidate in the 2012 presidential election." Funny how his party affiliation is omitted from the summary. What, it's not relevant?

    And not a word about how his #1 rival for the Socialist candidacy, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, was very conveniently removed from contention from the French race by being arrested in New York on the shocking charge of rape. Let's quote The Holy Wikipedia again: "On June 30, 2011, the New York Times reported that the case was on the "verge of collapse" because of problems with the credibility of the alleged victim, who had, according to sources within the NYPD, repeatedly lied to the police since making her first statement.[57] According to prosecutors, the accuser admitted that she lied to a grand jury about the events surrounding the alleged attack." Had this rape accusation not happened, DSK would be the nominee going against Sarkozy and not "a man named Francois Hollande."

    Hey, I'm not saying socialism is bad. It's been a good influence on Western culture in general. Pretty much every item on Marx's Communist Manifesto has been put into law in all Western countries as well as the United Nations. I'm saying let's put the party affiliation right up there where everyone can see...instead of referring to Hollande purely by gender as "a man". Is there anything to be ashamed of?

    I'm also questioning the relevance of some random country's internal politics for a Slashdot front page story, even couched in terms of internet freedoms. And the "from the strategic-surrender-in-order-sometimes dept." part of the story is just a cheap shot. America wouldn't even be an independent republic without help from the French. We'd just be a constitutional monarchy like Canada, with a foreigner as our Head of State. What the hell, Slashdot [tvtropes.org]?

    • Huh? How'd this make the front page? French internal politics?

      When first apparatus for recording music came about SACEM - French equivalent of German GEMA or American RIAA or insert_relevant_copyright_agency_here was first to introduce everything, we in 21st century fight against on interwebs. So, of course that it is interesting how they swing, as they do influence radicalized, corrupt and fascistoid EU. Look at the turnout at their elections - more then 70%. What is turnout in USA? Like 20% or so...if. So, no lesson learned.

    • by newcastlejon (1483695) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @07:42PM (#39766471)

      Huh? How'd this make the front page? French internal politics?

      Well I'm not French either, but it does make a pleasant change from the US political stories that seem to inevitably descend into bleating about libertarians after about a dozen comments.

      • Agreed. I'd like it if Slashdot had more stories from countries around the world. Politics moves so slowly (seriously, in the US we're still debating the same things we were in the 90s), that it shouldn't be hard to cover a good part of the world.
      • Well I'm not French either, but given the size of France, and its importance within Europe, this sure as well affects more than just "French internal politics". Merkel (Germany) and Sarkozy (France) have been throwing their weight around a little bit too much lately, pressuring neighboring countries to drop their banking secrecy laws, and it will be refreshing to see some more reasonable mind replacing Sarkozy (hopefully...).
      • by roman_mir (125474)

        Watch this video. [scanpix.no]

        I listened through the whole video (two years spent in Montreal let me understand this language well enough) and had shivers down my spine as this video triggered a recall of the very recent history as they were singing The Internationale.

        France is in dire need of a libertarian movement, now that Melenchon is gathering so much of the radical left into one coalition and promising to spread this ideology 'Pour tout l'Europe' as he said in the video.

        As far as I am concerned, this signals a hu

    • by reub2000 (705806)

      We'd just be a constitutional monarchy like Canada, with a foreigner as our Head of State.

      The governor-general, the person who actually wields the power of the monarchy is Canadian, and is head of state in name only. So instead of having dead presidents on our currency, we'd have the face of an old english lady. What's the issue?

    • They understand using nuclear power and do it well
      SAECM is better than NTSC - tv standards
      They were bright enough to go with the Chunnel, despite it taking longer than one election cycle
      They do not support Donald Trump for President

      They gave the USA the Statue of Liberty and were critical in the Revolutionary War

      Maybe they can help in the fight with the RIAA

    • by iserlohn (49556)

      There is nothing wrong about constitutional monarchy. The fact that a constitutional monarchy pretty much mandates that the head of state being a different person to head of government actually brings many benefits (and is also one of the main reason many republics follow this path, they just swapped the "crown" for a "president").

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 23, 2012 @02:04AM (#39768021)

      "Hollande was nominated to be the Socialist and Left Radical Party candidate in the 2012 presidential election."

      You known, it is pretty funny to read this from a french point of view. The socialist party in France is considered as a moderate one. And I actually have no idea why the hell the english version of wikipedia says that he was nominated to be the left radical party candidate. It a guy called Mélenchon (and there are other candidates to his left). But I suppose that he is so far on the left that he overflows american standards...

    • by radio4fan (304271)

      In any case, he's a man named François Hollande.

      I guess timothy omitted the cedilla for fear that slashcode would mangle it.

  • CDs have been known to hold songs, so everyone who buys cds must be forced to pay tribute to Hollywood! This is so weak. I use CDs to backup my code, but I still have to pay off the RIAA/MPAA because they legislate.
  • by digitig (1056110) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @06:56PM (#39766241)
    What has what a politician says in opposition got to do with what they'll do if they get into power?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Those on the left are far more credible than those on the right. The left represents the workers, the right represents the plutocrats. I have to ask: what university did you go to where you did not learn this?
    • by shentino (1139071)

      Which isn't much of a problem on a local level because if they fuck up we can have a recall election and yank them out.

  • by owlnation (858981) on Sunday April 22, 2012 @07:33PM (#39766421)
    The reason for France being at the forefront of anti-piracy things is Vivendi SA. And it won't make the slightest bit of difference whom is elected president. Vivendi are still there, and still in the pockets of anyone they need to be.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 23, 2012 @01:06AM (#39767837)

    During this campaign, François Hollande sent many contradictory signals regarding Hadopi, the anti-piracy legislation. At the beginning of 2012, he said he would abrogate this law. Later he said he would just modify it. Finally he published a letter where he stood aside of the rights holder against pirates, and claimed he would "gather everyone around a table", a trick he used on many topics he wanted to evade. So, even if Hollande is elected (he probably will), no one knows whether he will actually change anything.

    Now, on a sidenote, on why French internal policies may have their place on headlines:
    * France and Germany are the most influent countries in Europe and a shift of their positions could change the European ones. And since Europe is the first economic power in the world and gathers 27 countries, international treaties and regulations are worthless without it. Here is why such a topic may be of importance.
    * If USA's internal policies are on the headlines, why not other countries? Not all of the American policies reported on Slashdot matters for people outside of the USA (95% of the world, the rest of us).

    So, yes, a shift in French position regarding the Internet regulation would matter and should be on Slashdot. This news, however, I don't think so.

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