Hobbit Pub Saved By Actors Stephen Fry and Sir Ian McKellen 169
Fluffeh writes "Recently the Hobbit Pub in England was sued for rights infringement, but it seems Stephen Fry and Sir Ian McKellen are going to re-pony-up the cash to keep the pub alive. Landlady Stella Roberts said she had been shocked by the actors' offer. She said: 'I had a telephone call on Saturday evening, while we were trading, from Stephen Fry's business partner and manager. That's when he told me. I was very shocked. They've said as soon as they finish filming they would like to come down and visit the pub.' However Ms Roberts said she was not celebrating just yet. She added: 'Until everything is in black and white, on paper, we're going to be a bit reserved because it could be $100 this year and $20,000 next year.'"
Re:Pub? Where? What? (Score:0, Informative)
Because Hobbits are always relevant. Always.
Misleading Cause (Score:5, Informative)
It's not just the use of the name "The Hobbit" it's the use of Still Images from the LOTR movies in their promotional material. Essentially, these people are lifting copyrighted imagery and using it to promote themselves -- most definitely NOT cool and if I was one of the parties that ponied up hundreds of millions to make these films, I'd be a bit peeved by someone taking that work and using it without permission to make a profit.
I can only imagine that Stephen Fry and Sir Ian McKellen do not know the full story here and possibly think that this is a matter of a harmless pub merely using the word "Hobbit" in their name and have not seen the website or promotional material produced by this pub.
And for the record, the web site and promo material is completely amateur and quite tacky. Hopefully any money given to the pub to support them would mandate that they cease using imagery from the movies and perhaps use hand drawn illustrations by fans and artists who wish to contribute artwork for them to use.
Re:Bah. (Score:5, Informative)
The difference here is, from TFA:
The pub in Bevois Valley, which is popular with students, has traded with the name for more than 20 years.
That pub existed wayyy before the movies made the franchise famous. It's not like they decided to name the business to ride on the films' fame.
Perhaps not, but they certainly started selling stuff with the images of the characters from the movie including putting Elijah Woods face on things. That's what prompted the legal action.
Re:What the bloody goddamned fuck? (Score:5, Informative)
1. I agree this is petty bullshit.
That said...
2. The pub has likenesses FROM THE MOVIE. "It features characters from Tolkien's stories on its signs, has "Frodo" and "Gandalf" cocktails on the menu, and the face of Lord of the Rings film star Elijah Wood on its loyalty card."
The name "hobbit" is only about 1% of the issue.
Saul Zaentz's lack of character (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Misleading Cause (Score:4, Informative)
What cultural heritage do you have to show that illustrates why "The Hobbit Pub" should be able to take still images from the LoTR films and place them on their promotional material?
As I said in my post, I'm all for them using fan art and art inspired by the Hobbit and LoTR in general, that are original and either donated to them or placed under public license. But, taking images from the movie is indeed copyright infringement and they are making use of those works in order to profit from them. Can I make this distinction more clear? Is this not reasonable?
Re:What the bloody goddamned fuck? (Score:5, Informative)
The sad part is that you actually believe your childish little rant has any bearing on the issue. You don't You're absolutely clueless.
That word "Hobbit" predates JRR is irrelevant. That words starting with "hob" have existed in even less relevant. (Words don't even exist in any human language to express how irrelevant the latter is.)
They aren't being sued because they used the word "Hobbit". They're being sued because they used the word Hobbit in association with The Lord of The Rings - Something JRR did claim exclusive right over by the very act of copyrighting his works. And by establishing a literary estate, he willingly and knowingly granted his descendents the right to enforce that claim.
They're also being sued because they used imagery from the movie on their website.
More details (Score:5, Informative)
Website of the pub: http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/" [hobbitpub.co.uk]
Most of the "infringing material" is mere fan art like this graffiti in the beer garden: http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/gallery/hobbitgraffiti/67/
Even thought it is just a drawing they were asked to over-paint it.
Here is a still from the movie used as background for a card: http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/hobbit-cocktails/
That's pretty much it.
I think Steven Fry and Sir Ian McKellen are right when they call the claims "petty". How many pubs are there with images of e.g. Elvis Presley? I am sure someone has a copyright to them as well. So all auxiliary lawyers here should calm the f*** down.
Re:Misleading Cause (Score:5, Informative)
If anyone had bothered to actually look up the details they were only asking for $100 to license the rights. As they also explained, they were legally obligated to license the copyrighted/trademarked material, since failure to pursue a known violation would allow anyone else to do the same. So they did the best thing they could, which is to preserve their IP and license the rights for a trivial fee.
$100 to use all of the likenesses and images from the movie to promote the pub? That sounds like a great deal to me. And as the OP said, it does sound like Fry doesn't know the real story, as ponying up $100 to pay for the license is just a PR stunt.
To quote the licensor:
Zaentz has said: “we’ve tried to be very gracious. We said in the letter [that was sent to Roberts], rather than engage in protracted and expensive litigation, we would prefer to resolve this matter amicably.
“We think asking for a nominal licensing fee is very reasonable. I think $100 would be about the maximum we would charge.”
He went on to say that if he is ever in the neighbourhood then he will stop by for a drink.
OH NO! HOW EVIL!
Besides, it's not American culture, it's a British novel and a British pub...
Re:Bah. (Score:5, Informative)
So if I'm going to a pub, and it has Coca-Cola posters, than Coca-Cola can sue them ?
Probably. However, usually Coca-Cola pays people to display their posters. It's called ad-ver-tise-ment.
However, in this case : they are just being fined into oblivion, after 20 years.
If by "fined into oblivion" you mean
Producer Paul Zaentz told the BBC trademark law dictated it had to act against infringements of its brands, but were open to licensing the pub to use them.
He said: "When it's an established business, we like to get the company to acknowledge they are using our trademarks, stop selling infringing articles and then we will grant them a licence for a nominal fee - approximately $100 a year.
Please, go away and take your stupid with you before it rubs off on others.
Re:What the bloody goddamned fuck? (Score:4, Informative)
No, definitely not. However, the image of a character from the movie is definitely copyrightable, and the names can be trademarked in the context of the movie. So if you just happened to be named Frodo, you could use your name all you want, unless you attempted to present some connection with the movie (or possibly the book).
dom
Re:Bah. (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe so, but the people suing don't have the rights to the images of the characters from the movies.
Clarifying A Few Things (Score:5, Informative)
I feel I should address some of the issues raised in these comments. Firstly, the lawsuit was threatened because of their name. Second, the letter Mr Zaentz sent us was certainly NOT amicable, but we're not allowed to share it for legal reasons. Regarding use of images from the movie, perhaps that wasn't very well thought through, but anyone who has been to the pub could tell you that the places these images are used don't really have a bearing on sales at all - people don't buy loyalty cards because they've got Elijah Wood's face on, and nor do they buy an Aragorn drink simply because the poster has Viggo Mortensen's face on it. The pub has never tried to piggy-back on the movies' success. It's just a slightly geeky pub run by Tolkien fans for students who wouldn't see it changed for the world. Perhaps there have been some foolish but well-meaning errors committed. There are bigger things to deal with in the world of IP than small British pubs.
Re:What the bloody goddamned fuck? (Score:5, Informative)
I gather you have never heard of fair use.
I gather you're not from the UK, or at least are not familiar with our copyright laws. There is no "fair use" provision. There is a "fair dealing" [copyrightservice.co.uk] provision, but by my reading of the details this does not fall under it.