Anonymous Takes On a Mexican Drug Cartel 548
New submitter NarcoTraficante writes "After one of their members was kidnapped in Veracruz, Mexico by the Zetas drug cartel, Mexican Anonymous members have issued an ultimatum to the Zetas in a recently posted YouTube video. The video demands the release of the kidnapped member and threatens to publish information of cartel members and affiliates in Veracruz if the victim is not released by November 5. The Houston Chronicle article warns that there will be bloodshed if Anonymous publishes information on the Zeta's operations, either perpetrated by rival cartels or reprisal attacks by the Zetas themselves."
This is all well and good but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Well, THIS should be entertaining (Score:5, Interesting)
The Zetas will have to worry about the other cartels coming for them and their allies if the names are released.
Re:Have the drug cartels met their match? (Score:5, Interesting)
And if Anonymous were primarily operating in or near Mexico, that would be a grave cause for concern. Given that Anonymous is primarily European or from the northern parts of the US, they're less of a physical threat. I highly doubt the Mexican cartels can easily strike at people living in Boston, or Washington, or Vancouver, or London, or Moscow. They're very powerful within their domain, but they don't have much reach.
Additionally, Anonymous is generally pretty good at remaining anonymous. The prisoner they have probably doesn't have much more information on the others than aliases, perhaps vague geographic areas.
Still, I don't think Anonymous has all that much ability to strike at the cartels, either. They're decent at taking down websites, but the cartels don't have any. They're good at digging up embarrassing information, but drug lords aren't public figures that can be shamed out of office. It's a classic stalemate - neither side can seriously affect the other.
Re:Have the drug cartels met their match? (Score:5, Interesting)
International drug trade is pretty high-tech these days. If Anonymous was able to strike Freedom Hosting for child porn, they'll at least inconvenience places like Silk Road.
The drug lords are sitting unashamed and well-armed in Mexico, but the infrastructure that finances them is all over the world, on the internet, and likely tied to people who can be shamed and arrested.
Re:Identifying what exactly? (Score:5, Interesting)
So why are they getting their panties in a bunch over what a bunch of nerds publish about them? And kidnapping people that they believe to be part of Anon?
Given the PR that they like to generate about themselves, I'd say they are very sensitive about both details concerning their operations and their public image. Perhaps Anon can hurt them in ways that the Mexican authorities cannot. Anon doesn't give a sh*t about which politicians get taken down with the cartels, so that's one factor in their favor. Anon isn't constrained by laws the same way the police are. There are no rules of evidence, court issued warrants, civil rights, etc. that they have to concern themselves about. As long as they can keep themselves physically secure, its game on for the cyber war. Keep in mind that Mexican Anon doesn't necessarily have to be located in Mexico. Its going to be tough for the Zetas to reach out and touch someone posting from Boise, Idaho. Unfortunately, the person they have kidnapped will probably have to be written off as dead.
The other advantage that Anon has is that they can tailor their releases of info to instigate inter-cartel warfare. The Mexican police may be unwilling or unable to act. But the competition next door will be more than happy to take their enemies out.
Re:Identifying what exactly? (Score:1, Interesting)
Are we going to just accept a list posted on the Internet that someone claims is from Anonymous?
Well, yeah. That's similar to what we've been doing so far with WikiLeaks, right?
Re:Drug Cartels (Score:2, Interesting)
"+5 Funny"
Mexico exists as a failed state with a weak central government allowed to exist at the whim of the cartels because it facilitates exporting their real "product", hidden in shipments of their semi-legit American-job-eliminating exports. The Mexican government explicitly educates its citizens on how to abuse their bullshit "rights" when they get busted as illegals in the US - Rights that US citizens do not have when they get set up by the local corrupt police while spending tourism dollars in Mexico.
And you think we should care it "sounds" to decide whether or not we should let - Yes, "let" - Mexico continue on its present course?
Fuck 'em. I totally oppose the war on (some) drugs, but Mexico has all but declared war on us by deliberately feeding the worst aspects of it.
Re:Have the drug cartels met their match? (Score:5, Interesting)
Anonymous is already aware of that. So, when doing nothing is going to result in your aforementioned scenario, why not try something different, if only to make them - and everyone else - think twice about jacking a member of Anonymous.
Anonymous is just using the same logic as the Russians did - and if you recall, it worked. And they're in a better position to do it than the Russians were, because it's not like the drug cartel can target other members of Anonymous. So the cartel really has only two choices - release the hostage, or lose a lot more than "an eye for an eye."
Re:You're not Listening (Score:4, Interesting)
Mexico is different. Firstly, it's close to America, so a real war would spill over into the southern US straightaway. Secondly, America is full of Mexican-Americans and illegals, who would take sides immediately. The result is that an imperialist adventure in Mexico would cause actual, real attacks on American soil everywhere, with actual, real consequences to people, actual real economic damage, and actual, real social upheaval and political crises.
Basically, the war in the Middle East is not a "real" war. The Second World War was a real war, and Vietnam was a semi-real war. Mexico would be a real war, and nobody wants that.
Re:Identifying what exactly? (Score:4, Interesting)
"Due process exist for a very good reason, laws were not written by tree hugging hippies, they were wrote by victorious revolutionaries that put their life in the line to make a better society."
That didn't happen in Mexico, which needs another revolution to liquidate organized crime.
Re:You're not Listening (Score:4, Interesting)
why do we ignore that option when an immediate neighbor has paramilitary uprisings in border territories?
Because we have a wall and a heavy military presence to keep it from getting out of hand, and as long as we keep supplying arms to keep the balance of power between the cartels even, they won't become a threat to us. That's how MOST countries deal with this problem in countries they share borders with.
Re:Identifying what exactly? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Identifying what exactly? (Score:4, Interesting)
They usually dump raw data that is incredibly hard to fabricate. Whether there are subtle changes within that data is another matter entirely.
Re:Identifying what exactly? (Score:5, Interesting)
You can pic any issue of Proceso magazine to read about corruption in Mexico, the Anonymous list will be used or can be used to falsely flag people in the payroll of cartels. We have already big troubles with the anonymous report of innocent people as members of cartels or kidnappers, we don't need a list made by script kiddies. My grandmother was falsely accused of being a kidnapper and had her house stormed by the army, my uncle beaten and my cousin sent to the hospital. In the end, it appeared that the ones doing the tip were the actual kidnappers to make a big fuss in my grandmother's small town were she is a loved and respected citizen, the kidnappers got away. Due process exist for a very good reason, laws were not written by tree hugging hippies, they were wrote by victorious revolutionaries that put their life in the line to make a better society.
So, your bitching about anonymous, using an example that has actually nothing to do with what anonymous is doing, but with corrupt or stupid ass police officals, who decided that a "tip" they received was enough proof to terroize your family.
Sounds to me like your just angry.
You know, the police in your grandma's town probably are working with the kidnappers, and used it as an excuse to beat some sense into your family. Because by your post, you need it.
ARMY, ARMY moron. The police in the town was used to deal only with domestic violence and the occasional brawl in the bar, not to face tugs with RPG's, AK-47 and Barret guns. The next door neighbor was kidnapped 7 months ago, a honest hard working man, leader of the real main opposition party in that municipality. His family now only expect to find his body. I can't visit my sick grandmother because the road is too dangerous to do that trip, so please go and fuck yourself. You don't know nothing.
The only proof that Anonymous will show if only they show a list with names will be their word. For less than that people as died at the hands of the army, the police and criminal gangs. The problem in Mexico is systemic, we have a impunity rate in crime of 98-99%, more than half of the population below poverty line and half of the nation's wealth in the hands of less than 40 families that monopolize all the economic life in the country. For a big percentage of our population the only chance to ever improve their lives is to emigrate to the USA or join a crime cartel. The first step is to break the monopolies, end the impunity at the top and send to jail all the corrupt politicians that rule the country, but, since they are allies of the USA like that SOB of Musarraf or Pinochet is hard to make it happen, even more when the DEA and ATF send happily thousands of guns to the criminal gangs and the US DoD even more weapons to the army.