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China Censorship The Internet Technology

China Mandates Wi-Fi Hotspot Traffic Monitoring 83

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the you-have-nothing-to-hide dept.
hypnosec writes with an article on tightening censorship in China. From the article: "Officials in China warned businesses in the capital city to install web surveillance technology to monitor their traffic or they may have to face hefty fine or closure. ... It seems that the step to intensify web censorship in the country has left businesses with no other choice but to stop providing WiFi services.."
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China Mandates Wi-Fi Hotspot Traffic Monitoring

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  • Go, China! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby (173196)

    If there's one thing that can keep the US hanging on to our advantages over China, it's China doing whatever its mafia government can to keep its people down and divided.

    We've certainly got enough of our own action along those lines. But China is far more ruthless and stupid about it, giving the us a relative advantage. Go China!

    • by blair1q (305137)

      China's government runs the entire country like it's a business. When has running something like a business been an innate recipe for failure?

      • by Anonymous Coward

        When the business does enough evil that people start whacking its officials?

        It happens. Rarely, but it does.

      • by operagost (62405)
        You got me. In a real business, if you treat your employees like China treats its citizens, your best ones leave and you fail. But they can't leave.
        • by Doc Ruby (173196)

          Just one of the many ways in which countries are not like businesses, for better and for worse.

        • by satuon (1822492)
          I don't think Chinese citizens are unable to leave China. I assume they need visas but I doubt their borders are like the Berlin Wall.
      • by Doc Ruby (173196)

        Haven't you seen the hideous state of business for the past 5-10 years? Running a business like China runs its country is just like that. Corporatism administered by a mafia government, the biggest profits (literally) greased with the worst pollution (energy) and mass murder (military/intel).

      • > When has running something like a business been an innate recipe for failure?

        When the "something" is a country. The business aspects of a country need to be run like a business. But governments are organized for the collective welfare of the governed, putatively anyway, and the governed don't like being treated like lines on a P&L sheet.
    • by voidness (1900074)
      It looks like that is one of few advantages that US possess now. Go US!
      • by Doc Ruby (173196)

        The US still has many advantages. But indeed the strongest is that as stupid losers as we are, we're not nearly the stupidest loserest. When the bear is chasing you, you don't have to be the fastest - just not the slowest. Our foreign competition's negatives are indeed our positives. Though our global cooperation suffers by summing all the negatives together.

    • If there's one thing that can keep the US hanging on to our advantages over China, it's China doing whatever its mafia government can to keep its people down and divided.

      You just made my week. What the hell do you think this debt ceiling fiasco is? The debt ceiling was raised 7 times under Bush jr, all without opposition, news attention, or public debate, just as it has been 70 times since JFK, yet somehow this particular time it's earth-shattering news. It isn't a debt debate, it's a debt parade. The entire point is to make it seem like the population has to take the brunt of the debt problems, meanwhile the Federal Reserve (run by private bankers) is the primary debt

  • by Jawnn (445279) on Tuesday July 26, 2011 @02:01PM (#36886408)
    China wants the hot spot operators to keep the logs, the U.S. government wants the ISP's to do the same thing. Where is the outrage?
    • Exactly. I'm waiting for John Q. Public to start "demanding" this to protect us from terrorists. Oh! Think of the children.

      • by cjb658 (1235986)

        Coming soon, to a country near you...

    • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Tuesday July 26, 2011 @02:18PM (#36886580) Journal
      I suspect that there are two factors:

      1. Practical: Network surveillance enjoys enormous economies of scale. The cost, per customer, of some creepy Narus or Sandvine spook shit sitting on the line is fairly small. It is also largely invisible; buried within the more-or-less-arbitrary-and-opaque pricing structure of the ISP. Outside of a fairly small number of NOC jockies, and the feds, nobody has to see it or think about it. Joe Hotspot, on the other hand, faces a proportionally greater compliance burden, so he is likely to just turn the hotspot off. This upsets potential wifi users, and many hotspot operators are small-business types, who will talk with their customers about why there isn't wifi anymore. Incremental and largely invisible price increase vs. substantial decline in open hotspots...

      2. Ideological: American Exceptionalism is a hell of a drug. By virtue of our status as the Good Guys, what we do is Good until proven evil, and often even Good after being proven evil. The sinister, repressive, communist state of the cunning chinaman, on the other hand...
      • by toastar (573882)

        : American Exceptionalism

        I really despise this term. every time I hear it I think "Radical Nationalism"

        • As if Americans are the only people on the planet to think themselves special. Pfffff...gimme a break! Hint: every country thinks that they're special and different, and stand out from all others. The Chinese certainly do. Their country's name means "the center of the world" rather than the more literal "middle kingdom" translation that gets thrown around. Pick a culture, they'll tell you why they're special. And yet it's a mortal sin for any American to think so.
          • It's not a matter of 'sin'(or of being uniquely American, though the American manifestation is the relevant one if you want to talk about Americans...). It's a matter of sloppy thinking leading to lousy conclusions.

            If you start by observing that a country is unique in certain(generally positive) ways and from there conclude that it is exceptional, your reasoning is on a fairly firm footing, though your premises may or may not be accurate.

            What makes somebody an "exceptionalist" in the perjorative sense
          • by icebike (68054)

            Ah, but that doesn't fit in with the Hate the US crowd. does it.

            It took utter defeat and destruction of virtually every city for the Germans to be temporarily broken of the national superiority complex. (It has long since re-established itself both on an individual and national level into the culture). Japan never for a moment doubted their cultural/racial superiority even while accepting defeat.

            I often become somewhat embarrassed by the over the top extravaganzas of rah rah USA showboating that you see i

        • by icebike (68054)

          : American Exceptionalism

          I really despise this term. every time I hear it I think "Radical Nationalism"

          And that is exactly why the term is used, so some how call you a Nationalsozialist without you realizing they have done so.

        • by operagost (62405)
          I think, "high expectations." There's a big difference between striving to maintain a reputation and simply being an egotist.
      • by Cogita (1119237)

        I suspect that there are two factors:
        ...

        2. Ideological: American Exceptionalism is a hell of a drug. By virtue of our status as the Good Guys, what we do is Good until proven evil, and often even Good after being proven evil. The sinister, repressive, communist state of the cunning chinaman, on the other hand...

        We've always been at war with Eurasia, perhaps?

      • by 2names (531755)
        Also, Dude; "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature. "Asian-American", please.
    • by Kenja (541830)
      China does it to suppress the will of their people! We do it to stop the evil doers.
      • by voidness (1900074)
        How do you know who is evil? Say, Oslo guy?
        • But ... but ... but he wasn't an evil guy! He was a Christian fanatic, not an Islamic one!

          • I'm a Christian. Pretty conservative one, too, though perhaps not in the typical use of the term.

            "Oslo guy" was evil; I don't care which religion he subscribed too. Out of curiosity, was this a knee-jerk reaction comment, or have some Christian groups actually said he wasn't evil?

            • Pretty much a knee-jerk reaction to the usual anti-Muslim sentiment every time some idiot from their religion goes nuts. Why is it a "typical Muslim" whenever some idiot blows himself and others sky high in the name of Allah but an evil, lonely loony if it's in the name of Jesus?

              Don't get me wrong, I don't care much for either religion, but IMO religions should be treated equally.

              • I'm late in responding, but.... I agree that there is a somewhat typical anti-Muslim response. I am aware of this in Christian circles, and I too find it frustratingly... well, unfair I guess. I think there is something to be said for differences in what the generally accepted interpretation of the associated Scriptures state; however, blanket statements based on wackos from either group seem to be knee-jerk generalized statements more from emotion than any sort of study.

            • At the risk of going even further off topic

              Christians have understandably been very quick to distance themselves from the Oslo nutter
              One of the prime methods has been to claim that that he was really a godless heathen
              As an Atheist, I find that disgusting.
              • Late in replying, but oh well. I don't understand what is disgusting about it ... not that I know why and don't understand it, I mean I don't know why you would say that. I'm sure you have a reason and probably a good one, I just don't see it at the moment...

                I think there are much easier ways to distance myself from the Oslo guy. The easiest would be that a "Christian," by its name and by its own generally accepted standard, is one that supposedly follows Christ; i.e., follows His teaching, believes what

    • by poity (465672)

      Consumer interest groups like the ACLU are free to exist and operate in the US to fight directly against government overstep. Try setting up the equivalent of an ACLU in China. Actually you don't even need such a lofty goal, just try being a human rights lawyer in China and see what happens.

      • by cjb658 (1235986)

        My guess is something like this [politicolnews.com].

      • by Culture20 (968837)

        Consumer interest groups like the ACLU

        Citizen interest groups. I'm not a fan of every little thing the ACLU does, but at least they aren't morphing the role of citizen into the role of consumer.

        • by poity (465672)

          oops you're right. C words come and go in my head and I got em mixed up in there somewhere :D

    • There isn't but its easier to point at the person that you made everyone around you think that he/she is anti freedom and anti everything you believe in.

    • China wants^H^H^H^H^H has told the hot spot operators to keep the logs, the U.S. government wants the ISP's to do the same thing. Where is the outrage?

      US ISPs, (and most other democratic countries as well) can refuse and go to court to fight the requirement. ultimately, the supreme Court can rule and the government must comply. Despite what many people think, the SCOTUS is a pretty independent minded bunch who do what they want, despite the wishes of those who appointed them. So while the idea is pretty outrages, at least we have real legal protections vs. living under a government that believes it can rule by edict and where there is no recourse but to l

      • by rbrausse (1319883)

        US ISPs, (and most other democratic countries as well) can refuse and go to court to fight the requirement. ultimately, the supreme Court can rule and the government must comply.

        unfortunately this is not exactly true, National Security Letters are (disclaimer: IANAL) neither refusable nor you are allowed to make it public. One example was this case of an ISP owener [aclu.org], he had the guts to disclose it to the ACLU.

        Nicholas Merrill talk about the NSL and the gag order is informative, interesting and disturbing [youtube.com]

    • by icebike (68054)

      China wants the hot spot operators to keep the logs, the U.S. government wants the ISP's to do the same thing. Where is the outrage?

      Read the story again. The word "logs" never appeared.

      The Chinese government wants web monitoring and surveillance, which goes way past pen register data which is essentially all you get with logs.

      Web monitoring and surveillance suggests deep packet inspection for content, keywords, and web sites regardless of how many anonymous proxies you pass thru on the way. None of that is available from mere logs at the hot-spot, especially when ssl is used in the browsers.

  • by houghi (78078)

    At least they are honest and upfront about it. I can imagine some countries would rather do all the snooping behind peoples back.

  • by elrous0 (869638) * on Tuesday July 26, 2011 @02:20PM (#36886610)

    Right now it's easy to dismiss this as a Chinese oppression thing. But how long until this spreads to the "free" countries too. Many are already passing laws mandating logging and monitoring at the ISP level. It's only a matter of time before this filters down to hotspots too.

    • You're right of course. Throughout human history, the concept of individual freedom and liberty is rather new. It's very easy to see how once put into practice is an exception rather than the rule of civilization. It's quite possible that while America may have dominated for a relatively short period of time, China's reinforced oppressive system may last a few hundred years if not longer. In fact, the Chinese view this current government as just another Dynasty. They come and go, but each one lasts a very l

  • by Registered Coward v2 (447531) on Tuesday July 26, 2011 @02:55PM (#36887014)

    The Dongcheng Public Security Bureau did not respond to requests for comment on Monday, but according to its publicly issued circular, the measure is designed to thwart criminals who use the Internet to “conduct blackmail, traffic goods, gamble, propagate damaging information and spread computer viruses.” Such nefarious activity, the notice says, “not only hurts the interests of the country and the masses, but has also caused some businesses to suffer economic losses.”

    the measure is designed to thwart citizens who use the Internet to “propagate damaging information that could piss them off and threaten our cushy party jobs and lives.” Such nefarious activity, the notice says, “not only hurts the interests of the country's ruling party party members, but has also caused some of them and their families and cabals to suffer economic losses.”

    There. No need to use Babelfish

    Seriously, they may keep a lid on dissent for a while, but when it starts, look out.

  • by PPH (736903)

    I've got to hand it to the Chinese. At least they are up front about sniffing Internet traffic and tracking users.

  • monitoring Chinese citizens in cafes, and so little put into monitoring Chinese baby formula manufacturers.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      China has a habit of shooting people who do things like let nasty chemicals end up in baby formula.

      Here in the US, we let them shrug their shoulders, say, "My bad, guys!" and go on like nothing whatsofuckingever happened.

      But hey, whatever xenophobic bullshit makes you sleep better at night, I guess.

  • The real goal.

  • Australia tomorrow.

    Other slogans:
    China, leading Australia
    China, Australia's future today.

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