US, UK Targeting Piracy Websites Outside Their Borders 214
nk497 writes "The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency is going after piracy websites even if they aren't hosted in the U.S., by targeting those with .net and .com domain names, which are managed by U.S. company Verisign. Meanwhile, a lawyer suggests even that [kind of connection] isn't needed to take a site to court in the UK, saying as long as the content is directed at UK users, that's connection enough to ensure jurisdiction."
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:3, Insightful)
Because the US has more guns.
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:4, Insightful)
Except that .com, .net, .org and .edu all fall squarely within the domain of the U.S. as far as regulation goes, as per the blurb.
The other point made in the blurb is if you are targeting a particular nation's citizens, that you may also be subject to that nation's regulations.
Does that mean Amazon should be held liable for any naughty things entering Indonesia, for example? No, because although they'll ship things there, they're not targeting them. If they were to start offering their site in Indonesian and clearly marketed things to Indonesians, then perhaps they would.
This is really not much different from a bunch of Russians setting up a poker site on the Seychelles and then advertising specifically to Americans, require bets be made in U.S. Dollars, etc. You've probably already read on the crackdown operations on those.
Whether it is just is another matter entirely.
So while your comment is on the mark somewhere down the slippery slope, it's not particularly relevant as in fact people do have something to with 'them'.
Sad ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It really is sad to see US and UK companies playing this territorial-creep card ... oh well, maybe when their citizens start getting called for extradition to other countries they'll either explicitly acknowledge the double standard, or live with it and start making their citizens subject to laws from random places.
Mostly, I find it sad that copyright is the thing that these countries are most interested in protecting ... who needs liberty and democracy when we need to be sure nobody is ripping off some lame boy band that Sony has decided needs to be protected by the full brunt of the us DoJ.
And, I guess the UK only require that they "feel" they have jurisdiction ... that's a brilliant legal standard. Nice to know you can be extradited with a lower standard of proof for doing something which is entirely legal within your own country. The kid in question linked to stuff, and didn't even host it from what I read.
This is truly sad, and it means American laws have been totally taken over by corporate interests.
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell! (Score:5, Insightful)
then any US corp needs face US labor law for China (Score:3, Insightful)
then any US corp needs face US labor law for China work.
So apple you better look out as the I-stuff factory does not comply.
Extradition to other countries won't happen. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's mostly here in the US were corporations have corrupted the rule of law to the point where their interests come first. And unlike most other countries, we have laws now that have turned Civil cases into criminal cases.
If you or I had a copyright infringement case, we'd have to sue - it wouldn't be a criminal case. We'd have to find the person, sue in their courts, and cross our fingers if we can actually get any damages.
Someone infringes on Disney's (or any other large corporation) copyright, they can have the people with the badges and guns go after them.
Reductionist? Over simplification? I'm just an ordinary citizen and that's that way I see it.
We are not a Republic. We are not free. Today on July 4th our Independence Day, I'm going to treat it as any other day and feel the sadness for all of those young people who have died or been maimed fighting for the US corporate interests.
If Anyone Can Assert Juristiction Over It (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:4, Insightful)
White ones !
And our belt buckles say Good Guys right on em.
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you should make a better parallel? In this case, the offenders have US domain names.
.com is not a US domain name. .us is a US domain name.
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing is, for that to happen, a citizen's leaders (what we like to mistakenly call 'representatives') have to sell them out to the foreign powers concerned.
Tony Blair and the Labour Party were the ones who entered into the agreement to ship British citizens over to the USA on the merest of pretexts, without any UK judicial oversight.
Without a political leader willing to sell you and your countrymen out - or commit an act of treason against the people of his or her country, if you like - you're relatively safe.
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. But the US has shown willingness to use the guns it has. Now explain to me again how this makes the US the "good guys" again.
The villain you see in Bond films stroking a white cat and saying "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" doesn't really exist in real life. Not on a personal level, not on a national or international level. Everyone thinks they're the good guy, everyone thinks they're doing the right thing.
Hell, Osama bin Laden seemed pretty convinced that what he stood for was right. At the risk of invoking Godwin, as far as anyone can tell Hitler honestly thought that attempting to rid the world of the Jews was the right thing to do. And I bet you Kim Jong Il thinks he's doing a pretty damn good job of keeping his country well looked after.
Corporate America (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is precisely why other countries have pushed for ICANN to not be under US regulation because it's absurd that .com, .net, .org, and .edu should be US regulated or more generally that it's under US authority to create/destroy new TLDs.
Even if one were to believe that premise, what does that have to do with the situation? The fact that a lot of .com, .net, etc domains belong to US (or European) companies has a lot to do with where the Internet/Web first grew substantially. That doesn't mean .com, .net, etc inherently target Americans or Europeans. Similarly, a lot of the initial web sites were in English, not only because of heavy US involvement in the web's start but because English is a widely used second language and hence the closest to a globally inter-operable language.
Beyond that, I'd say it's pretty bloody obvious that plenty of pirates don't necessarily target a specifically nationality. Plenty of people in the world want to watch US made shows, play US made games, etc. Similarly, there's plenty of people in the US who want to watch shows from other countries (subbed or dubbed, if necessary), play games from other countries (translated, if necessary), etc. But, again, as English is very much a global inter-operable language, there's plenty of non-native English speakers who have become accustom to watching, playing, etc copyrighted works in English precisely because they're never translated into their native language.
In short, I'd probably feel a good bit different if this wasn't ICE seemingly just blacklisting domains as their own discretion, without oversight. Such a situation means ICE doesn't have to even bother proving in any way that any targeting happened, unless the domain happens to not be under their control; then they have to actually obtain cooperation from another government. And this situation just further highlights the point that .com, .net, etc should not be under ICE/US control.
Re:Don't quote me on this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where a lot of the concern lies IMO is that much of the agreements that have been signed regarding copyright have strings attached, which makes calling them 'voluntary' questionable. If we see free trade as the norm, and restricted trade as a punishment, then Western nations are implicitly and sometimes explicitly threatening punishment for not doing something they have no obligation to do. That is imperialism/bullying/etc., and cannot be just.
Not targeted at UK citizens (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Since US wants to play it this way (Score:5, Insightful)
We haven't been the good guys for a long time. The American government has long been the puppets of multinational corporations. I am trying really hard to think of how corporate interests aren't always being served in every damn thing we touch as Americans. America fights to privatize everything it can, it's sickening. They have so many brainwashed into this bullshit "American Dream" which is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Locally, I watched as our municipal water supply which was working just fine and had been for years, was shut down so that our community would have to switch over to privatized water, which ironically comes from a public lake. Our city lost control of our own water, and a way to generate revenue which it desperately needs. They almost sold the town reservoir to land developers, so they could shut down the park around the reservoir which is a park for the people. It was to be a gated community. Thankfully some citizens found out and went nuts on them at city counsel meetings, so they have backed off of that for now.
The point is, America is teaming with filthy crooked bastards that will fuck us all over. We see this on a local level and we have to watch the fuckers like hawks. Now imagine how fucked up this becomes at a State and Federal level where there are no "town counsel meetings" for people to hold these bastards accountable. It doesn't help with a dipshit American public that utterly refuses to do its civic duty of keeping these crooked cocksuckers in check by keeping tabs on them. America is too wrapped up in epic bullshit like American Idol or sports to pay attention to anything that is REAL or MATTERS.
This has been going on for decades here. The world had better wake the fuck up and realize that the American people aren't going to wise up and stop any of this horseshit. America is brain locked by corporations, they will be slaves forever or until the entire system crashes to the ground and they are fighting in the streets for a crust for bread. By the way, the rest of the world; you are next.