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'Son of ACTA' Worse Than Original 288

Posted by Soulskill
from the sequels-are-never-as-good dept.
An anonymous reader writes "TechDirt has the latest on the leaked US proposals for the 'Son of ACTA' treaty and it looks worse than the original. It's practically a checklist for how to kill innovation while making lawyers rich. In particular, they call for expanding what's patentable, blocking people from buying copyrighted goods in other countries and taking them home, expanding liability for ISPs whose users commit acts of infringement, forcing ISPs to identify their users to anyone on demand, and getting rid of third-party patent review while expanding the presumption that they're valid. The only way it could get any worse would be if it were enacted in law."
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'Son of ACTA' Worse Than Original

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  • good (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 11, 2011 @05:34PM (#35457914)

    This is where capitalism takes you. By definition, a philosophy based on the rule of the most supremely selfishly rational is going to end up with these people trying to change the law to increase their wealth.

  • Re:Kill'em all (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Roger Wilcox (776904) on Friday March 11, 2011 @05:38PM (#35457946)
    I say we take it one step further and kill all humans. Cleaner and simpler.
  • by vrmlguy (120854) <`samwyse' `at' `gmail.com'> on Friday March 11, 2011 @05:38PM (#35457948) Homepage Journal

    blocking people from buying copyrighted goods in other countries and taking them home

    Things that can be copyrighted: Books, nicknacks, travel brochures, the pattern on my boxers... Not only will you have to strip naked for the TSA, you'll have to remain naked while crossing national borders.

  • by 0123456 (636235) on Friday March 11, 2011 @05:44PM (#35457998)

    Yes, if they flip flop, like they did in the 1800s, switch sides. But RIGHT NOW Republican == BAD.

    And there I was thinking that Democrats had run the US government for the last two years.

  • by mangu (126918) on Friday March 11, 2011 @05:53PM (#35458088)

    Having the government make laws to give privileges to a selected few is absolutely not what capitalism is about.

    This is FEUDALISM.

  • by MoonBuggy (611105) on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:01PM (#35458140) Journal

    I'm expecting to see selective enforcement - those running the show won't piss off too many members of the public because it risks backlash (and they're not on such firm 'scare tactic' footing as the TSA are, so they have more to fear from public disapproval), but they'll pull out the clause any time arbitrageurs look to take advantage of an absurd regional price difference in copyrighted goods. End result, of course, is that while the employers take advantage of cheap global labour, any disparity in goods prices can't be taken advantage of by the consumer because the identical, but lower priced foreign goods can't be imported without the permission of the copyright holder. Even without this law, we're seeing exactly that behaviour in Omega v. Costco.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:08PM (#35458200)

    There is no "final" fix, and there can never be one. The wealthy and powerful *always* have incentives to exploit the majority for their personal gain, and *always* respond to those incentives with measures like this.

    The right response is to forever fight.

  • by Archangel Michael (180766) on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:09PM (#35458206) Journal

    No, they forget that the Trial Lawyers (wing of the D party) are also involved. This is not a (D) or (R) issue, this is a DC corrupt issue. Both (D) and (R) have the proverbial blood on their hands.

  • by spyfrog (552673) on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:16PM (#35458258) Homepage

    Could you Americans please stop trying to force us other in the world to accept your fascist corporations wishes?
    Please continue to live in your corporate govern country that you believe is the worlds greatest democracy but STOP trying to force us other to obey your corporate overlords.

    Thanks.

  • by Anthony Mouse (1927662) on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:20PM (#35458310)

    Things that can be copyrighted: Books, nicknacks, travel brochures, the pattern on my boxers... Not only will you have to strip naked for the TSA, you'll have to remain naked while crossing national borders.

    Forget about the logistics. That's just the collateral damage. The real issue is that it enables price discrimination. Which makes the US and other countries with a high standard of living even more uncompetitive by compounding the cost advantage of foreign countries: Foreign students will get our textbooks for 5% of the US price, which means they have even lower costs and can more easily undercut our wages. Corporations license software in foreign countries for 5% of the US price, making it more cost effective to set up shop Anywhere But Here. On and on.

  • by istartedi (132515) on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:26PM (#35458436) Journal

    Ron Paul has no new ideas. He just wants to take us on a trip down memory lane, back to the preconditions that got us here in the first place.

    We need a Theodore Roosevelt (trust buster) not a Ron Paul. And as I put my hand to my face, shield it from the blinding Sun and scan the horizon of the Fruited Plain, I see no Rough Rider coming to save us.

    We will have to do it ourselves, somehow.

  • Ok (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Friday March 11, 2011 @06:46PM (#35458708)

    Then let's hear your better system. I don't think anyone except for maybe crazy libertarians claim capitalism is perfect, or the be-all, end-all of economic systems. However so far nobody has come up with anything better. Communism sounds nice on paper but doesn't work in the real world.

    You'll notice that capitalism underlies the economy of all successful, well off, countries in the world. Now that doesn't mean it can or should be implemented without any checks, clearly all capitalist nations have counterbalances to it but the fundamentals of capitalism are what underlie their systems because it works.

    So, let's hear it then. You clearly think capitalism ought to go away right now which implies you have something better. Let's hear what that as, as we'd all be interested in a genuinely better economic system. Do your homework first though, because a lot of them have been tried and failed.

    However I'm going to guess you do not in fact have a good answer since you clearly don't know what you are talking about. The reason is that these things being proposed are actually ANTI-capitalist. In a true free market, there are no artificial restrictions of any kinds. So buying goods over seas and selling them for a profit at home is 100% kosher (it's called arbitrage and is common). As such if you think these are bad, then really you are being pro-capitalist as it stands.

  • by hairyfeet (841228) <bassbeast1968@nOSpam.gmail.com> on Friday March 11, 2011 @07:07PM (#35459006) Journal

    Actually capitalism is nearing its end, whether the 1%ers like it or not, simply because technology kills capitalism dead in the long run, there is simply no escaping that fact. I'm sure some will say "capitalism and tech go great together!" but this ignores a simple truth: The entire premise of capitalism is trading labor for capital but what happens when that labor is no longer valuable?

    I'd say probably half the USA population isn't qualified and will never be for anything that can't be done better by a machine, and each year the musical chairs that is "jobs not able to be done better by machine" will shrink smaller and smaller. So we either come up with "make work" to give an excuse to cut these people a check, have massive unemployment and underemployment which will eventually lead to a tipping point and massive civil unrest, or we find a new way (perhaps resource based) to do things.

    After all who thinks it would be hard to automate a McDonald's? The service industry will be the next to go and for many that is all that is left. So the 1%ers better enjoy their time in the sun, because those peasants won't just go quietly starve to death. Technology makes the worker pointless, and by sticking with capitalism you just make sure that now unemployed worker won't have any way to take care of themselves. Like delivering mail on horseback the capitalist way of trading labor for money is simply a dead end.

    As for TFA it is a perfect example, an attempt for the old money buggy whip manufacturers to hang onto their business model in the face of technology. Whatever idiot thought the USA could survive as an "IP based economy" really should be shot, as you are trying to force scarcity into a medium where none exists. They spend ever more money on ever more draconian laws to prop up a dying business model. Countries like China aren't gonna give a shit about your "IP based economy" when they can keep their money and just make copies, so you get a "giant sucking sound" where all the money goes out and never comes back.

    So until they wake up and smell the fail and start working on new business strategies that take the abundance and ease of propagation into effect they are just wasting their money. More and more of the population simply doesn't play your reindeer games anymore, so what are you gonna do? unplug the planet?

  • by Anthony Mouse (1927662) on Friday March 11, 2011 @07:43PM (#35459392)

    those peasants won't just go quietly starve to death.

    No, but bread is cheap and so are circuses.

    Negative income tax pretty much solves all of capitalism's problems. You set the lowest (negative) tax bracket such that no matter how little money you make, you can afford to eat and pay rent on a very small apartment. Then nobody needs to work to not starve, but you still need to work if you want a car or a house or to send your kids to a decent school.

    And people want those things enough to work for them, but not enough to riot over not having them. So if you can find a job, good for you. And if you can't, enjoy your government cheese.

  • by Bob9113 (14996) on Friday March 11, 2011 @10:09PM (#35460460) Homepage

    > Could you Americans please stop trying to force us other in the world to accept your fascist corporations wishes?

    With every fiber of my being I wish that what you are saying was rational. Unfortunately, we Americans are no longer represented by our government.

    We decried the Bush / Neo-Con oligopoly, and forced its heir-apparent, John McCain, to try a crazy stunt called Sarah Palin as a mad grasp for electability.

    We have used the soap box.

    We voted for Obama, the one who promised change. Who promised net neutrality, the end of Gitmo, withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, public participation in the construction of the health care law, and a shift away from secret government in general.

    We have used the ballot box.

    We have brought lawsuits that have been quashed by secret national security objections. We have brandished the forces of the EFF and Groklaw to fight the courtroom battles, attempting to hold the line, in vain.

    We have used the jury box.

    I have deeply considered what the above statements imply. I have contemplated the LA, the Fruitvale riots, and the current events in Wisconsin. I have lay awake at night stunned at the implication of these things.

    The path forward is a scary one. For me, I cannot accept it as it seems to be. I have chosen to believe that it is a failure to use the first three boxes sufficiently. Given that I cannot see how ballot or jury can overcome their state of decay, I am left with the soap box.

    This post is an example. I have a lot to learn. The barriers ahead look insurmountable. And the only sure way to fail is not to try.

  • by Ltap (1572175) on Saturday March 12, 2011 @12:07AM (#35461114) Homepage
    I second this. I am reminded of the Edison quote, "I will make electricity so cheap, only the rich will burn candles." The cheap excuse
  • by roman_mir (125474) on Saturday March 12, 2011 @12:13AM (#35461146) Homepage Journal

    Capitalism is not 'trading capital for labor', this is so silly.

    Capitalism is saving and (re)investing. Exactly what is the money (re)invested into is irrelevant, as long as it's actual savings, and not some government subsidy.

    Capitalism is of-course about organizing tools/labor/possibly land in order to make profit, but those things (tools/labor/land) can be used interchangeably, it doesn't really have to be labor, it doesn't have to be manual labor, it doesn't have to be human labor either.

    As to 'what people will be doing' - I bet there were questions just like this one 200 years ago when first capitalists were organizing tools (steam engines, machines), land (factory floors) and labor (workers, engineers, management, etc.) in a way that allowed producing more machines, which eventually removed the need for 95% of human farmers, and only 5% of farmers were needed to feed 100% of population.

    What would those 95% of people do?

  • by houghi (78078) on Saturday March 12, 2011 @02:19AM (#35461698)

    Look at your constitution. It has a way out [wikipedia.org]. The question is if you are willing to die for your ideals, like the people in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and other countries are willing to do.

    I think not. You have bread and games. (To be fair, the same is true for most of Europe.)

  • by SmallFurryCreature (593017) on Saturday March 12, 2011 @02:33AM (#35461768) Journal

    Yeah, bread and circusses are cheap and the oil rich nations of the world can certainly afford to spend plenty. So why exactly are the oil rich Arab nations on fire? Lack of money? Really? Libya should be rolling in it.

    Greed is all consuming. Why settle for a mere 10 billion if you can have a hundred by bleeding the people just a bit more? If Ghadaffi or whatever he is called had spend most of his fortune on buying bread and circusses and maybe an industry or two he would still be filthy rich and far more popular. But he didn't. Squeezed the country to the max until it broke. People are fighting tanks with what they can get hold off. That means bread and circusses completely failed.

    And you are a fool if you think this can't happen in the west. Just see how easily Greece and Ireland fell. See the riots in London by students. Gosh, students rebel in Egypt, the english government applauds. Students rebel in London, shame!

    Do you think that when Antionette said "let them eat cake" she saw the true problems in society? You can't see a revolution brewing until it boils over. If you could, people would do more to stop them.

  • by SmallFurryCreature (593017) on Saturday March 12, 2011 @03:09AM (#35461954) Journal

    Once you get a little bit older you might learn the secret of it all. It is that there is no perfect cure all system. The only thing that works long term, as in your life time, is to constantly find a balance while never actually achieving it.

    This is not how people like to think, they want the hero to save the world at the end of the movie. Not spend infinity just avoiding total collapse.

    In running a country, there is no end, no financial year, no last chapter. It is an ongoing concern that needs to readjust as the world changes.

    Should high-tech firms receive a tax deduction to stimulate them? Yes... we need them to stimulate the economy.

    Time passes...

    Should high-tech firms receive a tax deduction to stimulate them? No... we got them, now their taxes can help to stimulate other sectors.

    See what I did there? I changed a policy as the situation changed. How DARING of me!!! This is what most political parties with an ideology never do. Right - Left, it don't matter. Leave it to a republican and taxes for the rich would go to negative infinity. Leave it to Amnesty International and criminals would be out of jail before they commit the crime. Leave it to the green and humanity would be living on a very small isolated rock less it touch any piece of nature. Leave it to the Libertarians and we would have Somalia.

    When you see Thatchet claim that the lady is not for turning, she shows just how bad a politician she was. Ruined the country.

    Compromise? Yes, that is one word for it but really it is the realization that the needs of the country cannot be expressed by the needs of a singular group.

    We need labour, we need high-tech, we need investors, we need rich people, we need poor people, we need unemployed...

    Wait, what? We need unemployed? Yes, we do. Where else is a growing company going to get new people from? 0% unemployment is a nightmare for capitalists who know what they are talking about. Can you say salary inflation? Can you say stagnation?

    So you might want to turn off the work stimulation projects BEFORE everyone actually got a job before you run out of people for the jobs. Immigration has proven to be less then an ideal method for solving this and once you got immigration going, it is hard to stop leading to masses of unemployed immigrants.

    In politics you can never win because the game never ends. At best you can try to keep the ball somewhat under control. This means you got to shift back and forth on the same issue over and over. Do we build a nuclear plant? How about now? How about now? How about now? How about now? Yes, now it is a good idea.

    ACTA seeks to create a cure all with no room for changes in the future. That is why it is bad. The patent system might need to be reformed now AND be reformed again in the future. And again. And again. The idea that you can draft a trade law NOW and be done with it forever and ever is just a silly idea that sadly seems ingrained in our conciousness. If only we did X all our problems would be solved forever. Nope.

Don't sweat it -- it's only ones and zeros. -- P. Skelly

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