N.C. Official Sics License Police On Computer Scientist For Too Good a Complaint 705
snsh writes "When a computer scientist in North Carolina petitioned the state for a new traffic signal in his neighborhood, a transportation official replied with a complaint about what 'appears to be engineering-level work' done by someone who is not licensed as a professional engineer." Kevin Lacy, chief traffic engineer for the state DOT, and the one who filed a complaint with the N.C. Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors, protested that in trying to have Computer Scientist David Cox investigated for his detailed complaint about a traffic intersection while not licensed as a professional engineer, "I'm not trying to hush him up."
I'm sorry, that's it. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sorry, that's it.
America over.
The end.
No P.E. required. (Score:5, Informative)
Lol, this is great
You CAN practice engineering without a license, in fact, it's fine, you just can't sign the document " P.E. " (Professional Engineer) most engineers aren't licensed, because it is primarily used by civil engineers who are designing buildings, bridges, ect. The whole point of a P.E. is enabling you to sign off on documents, official documents that represent build plans for some government facility, or something that legally needs to have a responsible engineer. While it's good to go through the trouble of getting one (Bill Nye has his license) it only qualifies you to sign your work as John Hancock Professional Engineer, or claim to list your services as engineering services in terms of running a business.
Some companies just hire one P.E. to claim their work as engineering, cause they just need one to sign off on everything.
If it's something that's not going to put people's lives in danger if it's misdesigned (i.e. a robot, UAV, toy, printer) normally you don't even need a P.E. to do the work. P.E's are just something that at the end of the day are a legal check to sell engineering work.
and in some states I believe it's enough to just have a degree in engineering to consider yourself a professional engineer (though I know in most you must take a test to attain a license )
Here's a link to the P.E licensing board's website
http://www.nspe.org/Licensure/index.html
Re:Sorry (Score:4, Informative)
A 56k dialup modem has a maximum throughput of 53,300 bits per second (due to POTS limitations, I believe). Multiply that out by the number of minutes and hours in a day, then by 30 days, and you get roughly 17 gigabytes. Shave a bit off for network overhead (of which there is always a fair amount) and 14GB is not at all unreasonable.
This would require the connection to be active 24/7, obviously, and receiving data the whole time.
Re:Sorry (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Internet Don't Let Me Down (Score:5, Informative)
His name is Kevin Lacy and his email is jklacy@ncdot.gov and his phone number is 919-773-2800. And now they will send someone after me for plagiarism.
Here is where you can send a comment directly: https://apps.dot.state.nc.us/contactus/PostComment.aspx?Unit=PIO [state.nc.us]
I'm going to ask this here. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I think I misunderstood something (Score:5, Informative)
What is revealed is that the point of licensing in this case is to prevent people from competing with those who have been duly selected by the state.
No, that's not what the PE is intended for. I'm an EIT, and anyone can perform engineering work in the U.S. However, not everyone can call themselves a "professional engineer". As a matter of fact, most engineering work performed in the U.S. is not performed by a PE. There simply needs to be proof of non-negligence to protect from lawsuits, etc. This can be in the form of scientific data, or review by a PE. Since the DOT does mostly one-of-a-kind work, there is very little scientific data to justify their designs. Therefore they depend heavily on PEs to check designs.
There would only be an issue if the DOT used the design from the untrained person without review by a PE. IMHO The DOT is completely wrong in this case.
Re:Internet Don't Let Me Down (Score:5, Informative)
I was more thinking let his boss know what you think. Lacy seems to be the head of the traffic department, so perhaps this:
Secretary of Transportation
Gene Conti
gconti at ncdot dot gov
(919) 733-2520
1501 MAIL SERVICE CENTER (MAIL)
RALEIGH NC 27699-1501
Needs more Title 18 (Score:5, Informative)
Government employees really need to be reminded that as a condition of being employed by the state that they are held to a higher standard and can be tossed to the wolves for stuff like this, namely:
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > 241
241. Conspiracy against rights
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > 242
242. Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
PEs looking out for each other? (Score:3, Informative)
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/crosstown/wake-gop-raps-perdue-and-dot-for-stifling-free-speech [newsobserver.com]
As a professional engineer Mr. Lacy advised the neighborhood to hire another professional engineer to prepare the report. I thought that only lawyers generated business for each other in this manner...
This stinks to high heaven and Mr. Lacy should lose his job over this heavy-handed response.
Re:Sorry (Score:5, Informative)
Further, he has no basis for his complaint.
There is no law prohibiting doing engineer quality work unless you try to do it for money or pass it off as the work of an engineer.
You can pretty much do any level of study work (not involving actual actions or other people), as long as you don't pretend to be what you are not, use false credentials, and don't charge someone for the work.
You can design and engineer your own house from the foundation to the roof. Just don't try to build it without an actual engineer signing off on it.
In AZ they would've given him a medal... (Score:3, Informative)
In fact, a few years ago in Arizona, they had a problem designing the interchange between the US 60 and Loop 101. A Motorola programmer submitted a suggestion to Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) that was brilliant... ADOT gave him a plaque and named him an honorary traffic engineer.... They didn't use his design to plan the new interchange, but used his ideas to base their analysis and design on.
Re:Did I miss something... (Score:5, Informative)
No you didn't. I am a professional engineer, and the restriction is "offering engineering services to the public". You cannot represent yourself as an engineer if you deal with public.
There's nothing in the law that would limit what you do in your personal life. Preparing an appeal is not "offering engineering services to the public".
Mr. Lacy should have his license suspended for being a moron.