All Your Stonehenge Photos Are Belong To England 347
An anonymous reader writes "English Heritage, the organization that runs and manages various historical sites in the UK, such as Stonehenge, has apparently sent letters to various photo sharing and stock photo sites claiming that any photo of Stonehenge that is being sold violates its rights, and only English Heritage can get commercial benefit from such photos. In fact, they're asking for all money made from such photos, stating: 'all commercial interest to sell images must be directed to English Heritage.' As one recipient noted, this seems odd, given that English Heritage has only managed Stonehenge 'for 27 of the monument's 4,500 year old history.'"
From the original email: (Score:3, Informative)
It appears that from this email even website advertising would be "violating their rights"
Image rights and trademark (Score:5, Informative)
The Commision may exploit any intellectual property, or any other intangible asset, relating to ancient monuments or historic buildings.
Various case law in some jurisdictions (eg, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame vs Gentile Productions 1998 in the US) seem to allow companies to protect their building's images as trademarks even though the building is visible from public land. So I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss English Heritage's claim as "unthinkable and ridiculous". (Or at least, it might be "ridiculous" to us on Slashdot, but they might still win.) It'll be interesting to watch anyway.
Not copyright - a special law applies (Score:3, Informative)
This isn't about copyright. If it were, these letters would have nothing to support them, since a) the copyright on Stonehenge has expired and b) the plain view doctrine (for at least some of the photos).
However, it turns out that there is a special law in Britain that grants English Heritage all rights to all intellectual property somehow derived from archaeological monuments (search for National Heritage Act 2002). Since the UK's constitution is a rather jumbled up and all in all pretty toothless mess, the principle that the government can and will create any law it bloody well pleases seems to be in effect. So yes, in the UK English Heritage has a case.
If you've smuggled the images outside of the UK and you publish them there, the situation might be different, but it depends highly on whether your country has an extradition treaty with the UK and if so what the exact terms of it are.
It's really simple, copyright expires. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Any UK legal folk around? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not UK legal folk, but there is this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/62
Re:Simple: (Score:5, Informative)
If you want an even more amazing view of Stonehenge, here's a visiting tip that doesn't seem to be that well known - if you plan ahead and fill out this form: ...you can get inside the ropes and get within touching distance of the stones at sunrise. You get the place pretty much to yourself *and* the major road running right by the site is completely empty. It's a genuinely humbling experience and you can get views like this.
http://bit.ly/bYertb [bit.ly]
http://bit.ly/dxPWXE [bit.ly]
Yeah, go ahead and write me, English Heritage.
(although I still feel bad about the moment I found I was accidentally standing on a halfburied lintel.)
Re:Any UK legal folk around? (Score:3, Informative)
The EU actually has a non-idiotic /recommendation/ for this, it's just not binding, i.e. member states don't have to implement it. The EU recommendation is similar to the actual UK legislation that basically allows taking pictures of anything that's directly visible from a public location. I.e. buildings on a road, even sculptures. Now I don't know the status of Stonehenge, maybe it's not considered a public location for some reason?
But I doubt it is really covered by /copyright/ of all things, since it's not an original work of the would-be copyright owner.
Re:Image rights and trademark (Score:4, Informative)
I wish Parliament published comments along with the Acts so we have an easier time judging legislative intent.
That's what you'll need to read Hansard [parliament.uk] for. Alas, it seems to be difficult to search, but I think this [parliament.uk] is relevant. Moreover, as in the US, UK courts most certainly do take into account what was said in the legislature during the legislative process when dealing with some law, though they prefer to use the letter of the law as stated and existing precedent in relation to any particular act.
As pointed out in the link, there may well be superior legislation that prevents English Heritage from successfully making the claim. I would expect the key issue to be whether the photographs in question are, in principle, commercial or private pictures, and not whether some company is making money off hosting them.
Re:Simple: (Score:5, Informative)
Or you could just drive past.
Without fail, every single foreigner I've ever asked about Stonehenge finds it to be extremely uninspiring and a wasted journey / stop. And £14.95 an adult... are ya kidding me? You can get entry to any number of places for that. Hell, Tintagel Castle of something is infinitely more useful, pretty and interesting (and far cheaper) and that's just a pile of crumbling rocks falling into the sea.
Apart from there being virtually nothing at Stonehenge but some generic worn rocks in a vague circle, if you DO get past the barriers, there's much better stone circles elsewhere that are free. The "mystery" of how "they" made it isn't really a mystery for anyone who dabbles in such archaeology, or even that surprising - unusual at best.
One American friend had an organised day trip to Stonehenge from London when they visited (all the British people are now in fits of laughter). How/why I have no idea, but they were rather disappointed to say the least.
It's nice to see once, the best view now completely ruined by silly fences and borders and being from several hundred yards away as you drive down the hill to the East of it. But that's precisely what you do - see it once. I don't know of a single person that's seen it and *deliberately* gone back to stop there again (rather than passing by) - maybe I just don't know enough hippies.
Considering it's on quite a major road that many thousands of people drive down every summer to get to Devon/Cornwall, and that it's only a few hundred yards from said road (on one of the most dangerous turnoffs in the world because everyone is goggling at the stones rather than driving and not noticing the *one* guy miles in front who's stopping to turn to actually go TO them), the number of people you ever see inside the barriers is pretty pitiful. Unless, of course, you're there on the solstice when you REALLY don't want to be using that road at all unless you fancy day-long queues and not being able to get within a mile of the damn thing.
Stonehenge really is the most over-hyped, unimpressive place in Britain that I know. Keep driving, get to Cornwall and go look at dozens of standing stone sites for free (or much cheaper under the National Trust) or, even better, go look at something vaguely interesting like Tintagel, St Michael's Mount, or something vaguely recognisable.
Art, not History (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Simple: (Score:3, Informative)
"try using photos of the Eiffel Tower for commercial gain and see where it gets you."
I don't think there's any problem making commercial gain from Eiffer Tower. It's the night lights what could get you in troubles.
Run by assholes. (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Simple: (Score:1, Informative)
There is no evidence whatsoever connecting Stonehenge to druids. Modern druids like to think it's a druidic monument, but wishful thinking don't make it so. (Besides, modern druids also have no connection to ancient druids; modern druidry is based on 19th-century romantic fantasies, not history or archaeology.)
Re:Wrong jargon for Britain (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Simple: (Score:5, Informative)
Or you could just drive past.
I had a chance to visit the UK a few years ago, and took the train out to Salisbury to see Stonehenge. I enjoyed it, since it is a famous landmark, but what blew me away that day was wandering the cathedral in Salisbury. The medieval clock on display, working since 1200 or whatever, was really cool, at least to me. And there was an original Magna Carta on display, one of the few (four?) surviving copies, fairly legible too. All in all I went out planning to see Stonehenge but wound up pleasantly surprised with unplanned discoveries at the nearby town.
Re:Simple: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, it's an impressive cathedral, and the Magna Carta is definitely worth a look. Old Sarum, the original Salisbury, is an interesting place too. It's very close by.
Avebury (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Simple: (Score:4, Informative)
When I visited it, we weren't allowed to go inside the ropes, so no walking through the middle. What annoyed me is that we weren't allowed to walk all the way around it, as the ropes ran into a highway. It was sunset shortly after the winter solstice, and I wanted to see how close the stones came to lining up with the sun.
Re:We win, we lose (Score:3, Informative)