China Blanks Nobel Peace Prize Searches 326
1 a bee writes "CNN is reporting that China is attempting to block all communication regarding Peace prize winner Liu Xiaobo. Even texting is affected: 'Text-messaging on mobile phones is not immune from censors, either. A Shanghai-based netizen, @littley, tweeted his unfortunate experience: "My SIM card just got de-activated, turning my iPhone to an iPod touch after I texted my dad about Liu Xiaobo winning the Nobel Peace Prize."' Might as well add Slashdot to the censored list."
Further coverage is available from NBC.
Chinese people know... (Score:5, Informative)
In an effort to pre-empt any assumptions about access to information, I am in China and I have been able to access news sources and most articles online using Google News and various Western media outlets linked therein. Searches seem to be filtered by key-word, but most Chinese are aware of the award. Honestly, most of them don't care that much. They all know that the award often carries a political agenda. See: Barack Obama. Some feel it's just the West finding new ways to apply pressure to China on these issues where there has been long-standing disagreement. They are aware of the news though.
Mainly, I think the government is trying to avoid any large gatherings, unrest, or protests in the wake of this decision. We'll see what happens.
I've never had a problem accessing Slashdot from here. Some of the linked articles, yes, but not Slashdot itself. *ducks*
Re:Hacktivism (Score:3, Informative)
And this demonstrates well one reason why PC health certificates would similarly fail. One need only propagate an exploit that convinces those running such a system your doing an "unapproved" activity and you can rapidly lock out large numbers of people. Is it not rather interesting also how very closely PC health certificates and censorship also relate?
Maybe: (Score:3, Informative)
Obvious question: Are you hitting Baidu from inside China, or from outside? An awful lot of sites give different results based on where they determine you are coming from.
It could also depend on what part of the path from the computer to the server the filtering and monitoring was being done on. If it was at a few choke points en route rather than at boatloads of individual sites(likely) then a non Chinese located computer might not hit the filters.
Re:As long as we Americans keep buying made in Chi (Score:2, Informative)
Scientific Accuracy? Pi is 3 in the Bible.
Isaiah 40:22 says a circle, not a sphere, not that it's round, but that it is a circle and "heavens like a canopy" of a tent.
You skip over the universe being created in six days and it being a bit over 6,000 years old.
As for confirming the Bible with Herodotus, he didn't get the title of Father of Lies for being accurate.
Re:Social stability or autocracy? (Score:3, Informative)
You can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism [wikipedia.org]. Basically, social harmony is one of the effects and goals of a virtuous person. Even Confucius knew though that political loyalty - one of the qualities of a virtuous person - could be abused by governments.
As such, it is both a culturally resonant idea and a commonly abused method for the ruling party to stay in power.
Re:Chinese people know... (Score:4, Informative)
I am a Chinese, and you are bullshitting.
Nobel prizes has been a hot news item and most major news sites in China had extensive coverage. Chinese care about it very much. Today, *all* coverages about *any* Nobel prize have been removed from these sites. Interestingly that's how many Chinese knew Liu got the Peace Prize.
You won't find any discussion about it on Chinese sites, sure. But it's all over overseas Chinese forums. I haven't seen any single event being discussed so extensively.
And please don't pretend to be a Chinese expert. We (Chinese) know your kind, and we know why you live in China. We despise you.
Re:Chinese people know... (Score:2, Informative)
So a Chinese man is kept in prison purely because his opinions disagree with the government [...] If they really don't care they most definitely should.
Think of it as like Americans caring about people being held prisoner at Guantanamo Bay - plenty of people care about it in the abstract sense, but 8 years later you notice it's still going on.
Re:Chinese people know... (Score:3, Informative)
The USSR didn't exactly want the Chinese Revolution to happen. The USSR was trying to rebuild after WWII and would have to defend itself and China in the event of another war breaking out as a result of the Chinese Revolution.
In fact, Stalin, as head of the Comintern, instructed Mao not to begin insurrection and to work with the nationalists in defense of China against Japan. Mao took half of that advice, forming the Eighth Route Army [wikipedia.org] under Chaing Kai Shek's nationalist Koumintang, but left himself and Chu Teh (Zhu De) in charge.
Re:Maybe: (Score:2, Informative)
The only thing you can find there, is one canned response from Chinese government.
http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=%C1%F5%CF%FE%B2%A8 [baidu.com]
Other results are about different Liu Xiaobo - it's a very common name in China.
Google has done the right thing, it's better to display nothing, than to display the only thing approved by the authority.
Re:As long as we Americans keep buying made in Chi (Score:2, Informative)
1.) It's a unique book - It's the most widely distributed book in history. The Bible has been printed at least 4.7 BILLION times, in more than 2,400 languages. The Bible has endured bans and attacks from opposers.
Too be fair Gideons International is dedicated to carpeting the planet with copies of the thing. According to wikipeida they are personally responsible for distributing 1.5 billion copies. So that accounts for over 30% of all bibles printed right there.
I can't even recall how many of those I've personally tossed myself... at least a dozen or so over the years.
Secondly, "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tsetung" aka "The Little Red Book" was printed an estimated 5 to 6.5 billion times. (or should I write it as BILLION the way you did.)
2.) It is historically sound - People who are named in the Bible have been found to exist. Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor of Judea - his name was found on a stone in Caesarea in 1961. Events that happened in the Bible are proven to have happened. The account of Edom and Israel battling was one such event that proved to be true.
Mentioning people, places, and events that are real doesn't lend the quality of "historically sound" to the entire work. I hope we don't decide "The Last Samurai" was "historically sound" because we find a mention of Emperor Meiji in an archeological dig in the year 4210.
And indeed, Washington Irving's retelling of the life of Christopher Columbus creates the picture of a stubborn Columbus trying to make theologians understand that the earth was round. When in reality by this time the church already accepted the earth was round. Our modern conception that the church believed the earth was flat at this time is actually derived from Irving's fictional ("dramatic") account of it.
3.) Candor and honesty - Not only are their achievements recorded, but the people of the Bible also recorded their shortcomings and errors. Moses told of a mistake he made, Jonah made a big mistake and landed in the belly of a fish. Even the Apostle Paul humbly admitted that he made mistakes.
flawed characters? That's unique how? Achilles infamous heel, Lady Macbeth's self-destructive guilt...
4.) Internal Harmony - There were 40 men who wrote the Bible in the span of some 1,600 years. And yet, they wrote about the same theme - a harmonious message - God's Kingdom. From Genesis to Revelation, this theme can be found.
Its riddled with contradictions. And the modern 'bible' was assembled from a large collection of independant works precisely because they were deemed thematically harmonious by the theology over several hundred years. Books were systematically purged from the Bible, and purged from 'canon'.
The Gospel of Thomas..? First and Second Epistles of Clement?
Seriously the composition of the bible and Christian canon is even more convoluted, contentious, arbitrary, and self-serving than that of Star Trek or Star Wars.
5.) Scientific Accuracy - People used to believe that the earth was flat, but the Bible told that it was round. (Isaiah 40:22)
Yeah, I've seen that one before. But we also have Matthew 4:8 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;"
Its easy for the Bible to be right if it contains passages predicting both sides. If the earth were in fact flat, I expect you'd be pointing at Matthew and pounding your chest.
Furthermore, Isaiah 40:22, in the original tongue uses a word that is translated as 'circle' not 'sphere'. Its not like they didn't have a word for "sphere" or "ball". The word Isaiah uses is more properly interpreted as 'circle' like a 'disc' not like a 'sphere'. There are a number of passages in Job that reinforce this disk interpretation as well -- refering to shaking the earth by its edges (spheres don't have edges, nobody ever grabs a ball by its edges, but a disk would make perfect sense). Job also compares the earth to a clay seal w
Re:As long as we Americans keep buying made in Chi (Score:2, Informative)
Six days. Right there in Genesis.
According to the Hebrew calendar the Universe was created in 3760 BC, so it's less than 6000 years by that measurement.
And yes, pi is three in the Bible, even Jewish scholars admit to it.
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/Pi_In_The_Bible.html [abarim-publications.com]
"He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits."
Re:Social stability or autocracy? (Score:5, Informative)
I've heard it said that much of the Chinese government's restrictions on free speech, protest, etc. are to maintain social stability.
Is that an ideal that's especially resonant with the Chinese culture for some reason? If so, why?
My take.
China has historically been a unitarian state. And no matter how you look at it, China is a *huge* country, and for a thousand years or so, the only one that actually managed to more or less hold itself together. Most other large empires simply dissolved into smaller states within a relatively short period.
And thus, particularly when China become "united" under one government during the Qin-Han periods (around 200BC), most of the scholars and intellectuals were concerned how to make this huge behemoth government work. There were quite a few schools of thought, mostly adapting and refining the ideas that floated around in earlier periods. I describe the two mainstream ones:
The "legalists" believed in rule *by* law, using incentives and punishments to make people keep in line with the government and boosting government efficiency. And by "punishment", I mean harsh punishments such as body mutilations for those who do not obey. The ruler sits on top of this system, and is above it, and is the only one who steers it. Everyone else is subject to the law.
The "confucians" believed in "cultural education", or what I call "propaganda". They sought to achieve social harmony by advocating obedience and subservience to higher authorities, and maintaining a strict social hierarchy consisting of the Emperor at the top, then various nobility and officials in the middle, then the commoners. The commoners would defer authority to higher ups, and in turn, the authorities should treat the commoners as if they were their children.
It should be obvious from the above why the idea of free speech never developed. The only kind of open political disagreement allowed was between high officials, and between high officials and the Emperor. Historically, it is a *virtue* for officials to admonish and risk being executed by the Emperor. I'm not kidding you. Historically, the price of speaking the truth, speaking for justice, speaking for a better society, is risk of death if your views happen to be different from the ruler.
It is under these conditions that Chinese culture developed. And historically, when China was divided into different states or factions, there were constant wars between those states. Millions if not billions of people are killed in these civil wars, and they happen *every time* the government is not strong enough to hold the nation together.
This is the only reason why the Chinese people have tolerated authoritarian governments one by one -- yes it's bad, but the alternatives simply stink.
I hope that answers your question.
Re:Social stability or autocracy? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, the idea DOES resonante with the Chinese, for cultural reasons that go back centuries. Confucianism held sway in China throughout much of their history, and that philosophy puts a high value on deference to the authorities, be it the Emporor or your local official.
People say this a lot, particularly Lee Kuan Yew to justify the one-party pseudo-democracy in Singapore, but this is not really the whole story. Authoritarians choose to selectively quote his work for their own ends. Confucius is very keen on respect for parents, authorities etc, but respect should not be confused with deference. In fact Confucius says that a minister's failure to correct his prince when the prince errs is one of the few things that can destroy a country.
CHAP. XIX. Chi K'ang asked Confucius about government, saying, 'What do you say to killing the unprincipled for the good of the principled?' Confucius replied, 'Sir, in carrying on your government, why should you use killing at all? Let your evinced desires be for what is good, and the people will be good. The relation between superiors and inferiors, is like that between the wind and the grass. The grass must bend, when the wind blows across it.'
CHAP. XXIII. Tsze-kung asked about friendship. The Master said, 'Faithfully admonish your friend, and skillfully lead him on. If you find him impracticable, stop. Do not disgrace yourself.'
CHAP. XV. ... 5. 'If a ruler's words be good, is it not also good that no one oppose them? But if they are not good, and no one opposes them, may there not be expected from this one sentence the ruin of his country?'
Re:Chinese people know... (Score:2, Informative)
So, first I am in China for the chicks. Then, in your next post, I'm in China because I couldn't get a job in my home country and I can take advantage of the demand for English language teachers in China.
For the record, I'm married, I have an advanced degree, and I don't teach English. I am working for the same company that I worked for in my home country - just from a different location.