Mexican Senate Votes To Drop Out of ACTA 96
An anonymous reader writes "The Mexican Senate has voted unanimously to drop out of ACTA negotiations, saying that the process has been way too secretive, left out many stakeholders and appears to deny access to knowledge and information. Of course, it's not clear if this 'non-binding resolution' actually means much, as the negotiators are not under the Senate's control. At the very least, though, it appears the Mexican Senate is going to fight to keep the country from agreeing to ACTA."
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You didn't really want to write the first post, you just wanted to claim first post. Your cheating, Play fair [humorsphere.com]
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At any rate, I applaud Mexico for this. The more countries that do this, the more ACTA isn't looking so good.
Not at all (Score:5, Informative)
This says nothing about dropping out at all. It is asking for negotiations to be paused while they set up internal discussion and review groups. The tone of the entire thing supports the general need for something like ACTA but is against the secrecy of the negotiations. The healine there is misleading.
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I'm with you on this one. I'm not sure if the AC you're going back and forth with is a native English speaker or not (or if they are, if they use a different dialect), but "drop out" indicates a finality. "Postpone" or "suspend" are far less harsh words to use if the intention is to later resume negotiations.
Saying "we're droping out" doesn't mean "well be back later". It's more like "Fuck ya'll, peace out!".
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Think like a diplomat does, and then you'll see why they use the language they do. I would guess (since I'm not a mind-reader, and even if I were, I don't speak Spanish) that this is indeed a withdrawal from ACTA just couched in diplomatic language.
drop out (Score:1)
> when I read "drop out" it suggests that they've pulled out completely
Same here. Other example: when a runner drops out of a race. They don't stand around thinking and then suddenly start sprinting to catch up because they've decided the race is actually pretty cool :-)
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For sufficiently small values of "exactly."
So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
Why do I always feel like the Imperial March should play any time our ambassadors arrive to negotiate some new onerous "IP law" treaty with a wide-eyed, third world country?
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Why do I always feel like the Imperial March should play any time our ambassadors arrive to negotiate some new onerous "IP law" treaty with a wide-eyed, third world country?
I have altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further. (And unlike Vader, they won't even tell you what the deal is. The process is clearly intended to confuse everyone and Mexico is only doing the right thing because it has nothing left to lose. The papers are publishing articles saying shit to the drug lords like "We are your bitches, tell us what to do, we are your people.")
Wow. (Score:4, Interesting)
Unanimous ... I bet the US senate would be closer to unanimous in the other direction.
Smaller countries know when they are being taken to the cleaners.
Nice sideshow alright, but ACTA marches on (Score:5, Insightful)
> Smaller countries know when they are being taken to the cleaners.
Yeh, but the only institutions that complain are ones with no power.
The European Parliament, the European Privacy Commission, and the Mexican Senate aren't in charge of the ACTA negotiations for their countries. They can stomp off and their citizens can feel proud that the elected officials are looking after their interests, but ACTA goes ahead. Funny, huh?
I didn't understand how society let TRIPS go ahead in 1994. I guessed it was snuck in while citizens weren't looking at the global level, and it would thus never happen again. Now my generation is letting it happen, and we're watching it unfold, and it's unfolding...
http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement_overview [swpat.org]
Re:Nice sideshow alright, but ACTA marches on (Score:4, Insightful)
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something in the news disturbing you? here's some X-factor and Big-Brother gossip to distract you... why Gamu is getting deported, it's just not fair, the contestants had already been picked...
oh and while we're at it, heres a spoiler on Coronation Street's upcoming "disast
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hey! butterflies... on an iPad!
you probably wanted to write "hey! butterflies... on emacs [xkcd.com]"
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Not in this case. By law, the Mexican Senate has to approve the ACTA.
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Regardless of what is negotiated, Senate is the one that can simply not sign the treaty once it's done.
So if they would really say that they are dropping out (which they aren't at the moment) then there would be no point in negotiating with Mexico.
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Ok, agreed. ...on that subject, does it ever happen that a country other than the USA (Kyoto protocol) negotiates and signs a treaty and then national elected body refuses to ratify it?
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Now my generation is letting it happen, and we're watching it unfold, and it's unfolding...
Hmm. Are we? Is it Gen-X and Gen-Y doing this, or is the Boomers and grown-up Gen-Z kids doing it?
Surely 30-somethings aren't buying into this tripe are they?!
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Well, the Parliament could stop SWIFT [spiegel.de]. Especially since Lisbon's Treaty they have more vetting powers, AFAIK.
might be bad to drop out :-( (Score:3, Interesting)
The negotiating countries will need to sign this treaty from the start, but at least they get a chance to water it down.
Other countries get dragged into signing it later, with no chance to change anything. Ever notice how the USA makes DMCA-like laws a requirement of any trade-related treaty?
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Your comment is inaccurate and the main reason the rest of the world thinks Americans are uninformed and arrogant. Mexico is the 12th largest economy in the world and headed for the top 5 - counting the EU as one entity of course. The 1950's stereotypes no longer apply, it is not "the west, the commies and the 3d world" any more.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico#Remittances
Remittances, or contributions sent by Mexicans living abroad, mostly in the United States, to their families at home
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That's one of the reasons their FTA iniciatives don't work with countries that have a choice.
Here in Uruguay, the president was negotiating an FTA with the US 4 years ago. It also conflicted with other treaties, like Mercosur, but unfair subsidies, patents and copyrights were the main reasons it got rejected. They sell an FTA, but without the "Free" part.
Made In America (Score:5, Insightful)
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Other countries also have companies making profits from american entertainment and buying their own politicians. Also, Japan's a big media producer as well (outside Asia, mostly games, cartoons and comics, but still).
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"(outside Asia, mostly games, anime and manga, but still)."
fixed, pls try to not mistake the waterdowned storys disney makes, mindless violents vs. the show i watch (higurashi ftw)
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Oh come on, Japan pumps out just as much pop-culture garbage as the US does. There are gems from both sides of the Pacific, but let's not forget that the majority of entertainment that both countries produce is mass market crap. Insisting on unique nomenclature to hide this fact just shows your culture preference for Japan.
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where are the gems from cartoons? while i`d agree that most of anime is crap they at lest they try to do stuff differently,
ive never seen one cartoon that actually has any sort of deep meaning/descent storyline
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I also prefer anime and manga to "japanese cartoons" and "japanese comics", but I admit they are just shorthands and cartoons and comics is an understandable designation.
However I'd dare to say that Japan's profit from anime and manga isn't on the same league than what it gains from electronics.
Getting back on top, there is no way my government is NOT going to screw us again with this one, we need a new revolution, hard. Of course a modern day Fransisco Villa will be targeted by the CIA as a terrorist.
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I can understand how there may be some Mexican Senators who have their fingers in the Piracy pie. *Any* Mexican street market is guaranteed to have at least one "clon" stand, with the larger markets having 20-25% of their stalls selling warez of all kinds: CD/MP3/DVD/PS2/XBOX, as well as counterfeit clothing and handbags.
A widely believed rumor is that the stands are tied to organized crime. Another rumor is that the Senators are corrupt. It doesn't take a Latin conspiracy theorist to connect the dots.
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Because we'll bomb the everloving fuck out of any country that doesn't do what we want.
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It is rather difficult to bomb countries who have capability to bomb you back to stone age as a response. This discounts much of the Europe, Russia and China from the list.
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Sony Pictures: Japan
Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd: Britain
Lord of teh Rings: New Zealand.
Rush: Canada
ACDC: Australia
Universal Pictures: France
Jackie Chan: Hong Kong
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We don't. What we do care about is not pissing off America, since many of us (Australia, Canada, etc.) rely on them to protect us if anyone decides to declare war on us.
IP economy vs. Freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
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What you are suggesting is clearly impossible. Maybe if we had millions or perhaps billions of people, they might often have overlapping ideas. However, in our world, so few people actually think, that strict enforcement of intellectual monopoly is the only way to secure a brighter future for us all. God bless our corporations for undertaking this burden.
More seriously, this is exactly why IP should be banned outright; it infringes on peoples' freedom of thought.
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The ones that say essentially that you can't think or imagine something are definately against freedom.
What kind of "IP rights" essentially say that you can't think or imagine something?
Oh, wait, I know: none of them do. (even though sometimes IP owners try to enforce them as if they do)
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I'm not the OP but I agr
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Brand names simply protect the brand not the product - so you could make a 100% same coca-cola, you just wouldn't be able to brand it so.
I believe that's exactly the GP's point (though your example is not a good one: see below).
While established companies might be able to trade on their "good names" and beat out copiers, emerging companies would have a much more difficult time to establish themselves - not to mention that established companies with "good names" could just steal from emerging companies and get the best of both worlds while completely stifling innovation.
You've got that precisely backwards. Established companies would be the ones having to work hard to retain their reputation; emerging companies would have precisely zero barrier to entry. Remember, in the present state of things it's the established companies that can afford to license pre-existing work; but a small start-up will find it very hard to start a printing press, because of licensing costs.
I'm not the OP but I agree that you need copyright protection - it makes it possible to be in the creative profession, and actually encourages scientific sharing (as you have no fear that they will steal the end product of your research).
You are confusing
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"Now let's say your hot new video game gets distributed in a way that results in heavy losses for your employer."
What losses? The same old tired bullshit. "You downloaded it, so you would've bought it otherwise!" Completely spurious reasoning. I'd have a Big Mac for lunch if someone - perhaps a manager I know who isn't paying for it - gave me one, but I'm rather unlikely to go to McDonald's and buy one.
"Now let's take this one step further - your bonus/raise/benefits have all been drastically reduced d
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Yes, some people depend financially on copyrighted content. How is this an argument against the previous statement?
Lots of people make money out of extortion, does it mean it's compatible with freedom too?
IP laws take away freedom of speech and the right to private & personal property. Your argument does nothing to disprove it.
Re:IP economy vs. Freedom (Score:4, Informative)
I completely disagree. Suppose your livelihood depended on creating intellectual property;
Suppose your livelihood depended on creating hot air. It's not the law's job to enable business models, its job is to enable a healthy society. And at the moment, a lot of IP laws don't seem to do much good to society.
There are already ridiculous amounts of money and lawyers involved in IP at the moment. We're creating more content than ever before. More than we can ever hope to consume. Why do we need a new treaty to make IP even more powerful? We need some balance.
Now let's say your hot new video game gets distributed in a way that results in heavy losses for your employer. Now let's take this one step further - your bonus/raise/benefits have all been drastically reduced due to heavy damages. Then what are you going to do?
Try something that works, rather than go whining to the government for more draconian laws.
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Suppose your livelihood depended on creating intellectual property . . . Or a musician, and someone else was making money off of your hard work.
I sort of agreed until that one about musicians. Musicians (I'm not including composers here) make music, and their livelihood was not helped by the copyrighting of recorded music (except for a handful that made it to the very top of the recording chain).
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property is limited in a state of nature, laws have created artificial rights that offer protection in the best interest of corporations, not the public.
ACTA and software patents (Score:3, Informative)
Here's the problems caused for software patents:
I've seen people claiming that ACTA will require countries to allow software patenting, but that's not correct at all. On the contrary, the latest leaked draft (25 August) explicitly says that there will be no substantive requirements on scope:
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The leaked draft is not the final agreement. Do not tell me that people won't try to have that changed before it is finished. People with lots of money and influence throughout the world.
Single Nation Treaty? (Score:3, Funny)
Heh, at this rate, it won't be long before the United States is the only country left. Then the RIAA, MPAA, and the henchmen Obama appointed to the DoJ can write whatever they want and sign us on as the sole participating nation. Signing a treaty without another nation involved has to fall somewhere in the executive branch scale between extraordinary rendition and summary execution, so it's totally legit!
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Mexico has much bigger things to deal with (Score:2, Insightful)
Mexico has much bigger things to deal with like a big drug war and the drug cartels paying off cops.
Re:Mexico has much bigger things to deal with (Score:5, Insightful)
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A big step, but not the last (Score:1)
The Point of Agreement from the Senate is a political plead to the President to stop the ACTA negotiation process. Although it's not legally binding at the moment, by law all the International Trades with Mexico have to be approved by the Senate.
The Senate is asking the President to stop the ACTA negotiations, but if the President fails to do it, eventually he must send the ACTA for approval to the Senate.
How does this happen? (Score:2)
... as the negotiators are not under the Senate's control.
So how is it that negotiators who are negotiating a treaty that will have far-reaching implications for the people of Mexico not be under their government's control? That sounds about as thoroughly fucked up as it is in D.C.
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The negotiations are not under the Senate control, but the final approval is. ACTA must be approved by the mexican Senate in order to be legally adopted.
And yes. The lobbyist and factual powers in Mexico are very powerful an evil, just as anywhere else.
ALRIGHT MEXICO!!! (Score:1)
Go Mexico! (Score:4, Interesting)
Mexico may have been turned into a lethal hellhole by the drug cartels, but you have to credit their government with more integrity than most of the developed world, as far as that treaty is concerned. I hope the EU makes good on its promise [futurezone.at] and follows suit.
From the heartland, (Score:2)
Oh ACTA (Score:2)
We get to vote and the big companies get to make all the rules...
Isn't it great.