Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Government Security The Military Your Rights Online

Talk On Chinese Cyber Army Pulled From Black Hat 103

Posted by samzenpus
from the what-cyber-army? dept.
Trailrunner7 writes "A talk on China's state-sponsored offensive security efforts scheduled for the Black Hat conference in Las Vegas later this month has been pulled after concerns were raised by people within the Chinese and Taiwanese government about the talk's content. The presentation was to be delivered by Wayne Huang, CTO of Armorize, an application security company with R&D operations in Taiwan. The talk was billed as an in-depth, historical look at the offensive capabilities and operations of China's so-called cyber-army."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Talk On Chinese Cyber Army Pulled From Black Hat

Comments Filter:
  • Let's compare the two different stories that were going to be posted as authors duped.

    Screenshot [tinypic.com]

    Worded quite differently, no? This published summary accuses the Chinese and Taiwanese government about it, while the other one just says they had concerns about their good relationships in the community.

    • by TubeSteak (669689) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @10:56AM (#32914668) Journal

      Worded quite differently, no? This published summary accuses the Chinese and Taiwanese government about it, while the other one just says they had concerns about their good relationships in the community.

      FTA: Caleb Sima, Armorize's CTO and co-founder, said on his Twitter feed yesterday that the talk had been pulled.
      "I had to pull our blackhat talk. Taiwanese gov is prohibiting it due to sensitive materials. Unreal."

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      Indeed. I think it deserves a golf clap.

      Even though this article tries to make me blame our Oriental cousins for pulling a talk about them, how many times has the States tried to brush things like Gitmo under the rug to the rest of the world, with reasoning along the line of "We know its bad, but it's a necessary evil in this day and age".

      Even if they are right that it's necessary, its still two faced to think other countries shouldn't have their own skeletons.

      • by Dishevel (1105119)
        When was it that the US Government stopped people from talking about gitmo?
        • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Gitmo was a poor example. A better one would have been the "Collateral Murder" video posted on Wikileaks last spring, which the U.S. Government attempted to suppress. Now Julian Assange is very likely on the FBI's Most Wanted List, and is afraid for his own safety. And the safety of Bradley Manning is seriously in question.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Dishevel (1105119)
            I actually like the unedited version of that video better. Wikileaks did a serious fail on that one. I like them too. *Sigh*
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by abigor (540274)

      Sounds pretty much the same to me. If you think the Chinese "security community" is somehow separate from the Chinese government, you are dreaming.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 15, 2010 @10:51AM (#32914582)
    China is directing the single largest, most intensive foreign intelligence gathering effort since the Cold War against the United States.... http://www.securityweek.com/chinas-cyber-threat-growing [securityweek.com]
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by SquarePixel (1851068)

      China is directing the single largest, most intensive foreign intelligence gathering effort since the Cold War against the United States....

      http://www.securityweek.com/chinas-cyber-threat-growing [securityweek.com]

      Or could it be that US is using this as an excuse to take even more control over the Internet?

      This is nothing new. I remember reading about such things in the 90's. US is good with propaganda, including entertainment and everything. Just see cold war.

      • by poetmatt (793785)

        us is trying to do so, but not successfully.

        there are lots of legal challenges that are leaning towards that they won't be able to do so.

        • by FriendlyLurker (50431) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @11:26AM (#32915028)

          there are lots of legal challenges that are leaning towards that they won't be able to do so.

          Those "legal challenges" appear to just melt away [wikimedia.org] when you waive a "National Security" [wikimedia.org] orders around.

          • by hitmark (640295)

            i suspect US may be able to isolate their part of the net from the rest, but to take over the whole thing? fat chance.

            end result may well be that each nation runs their own net, with heavy "border checkpoints".

        • What you think the law is and what the White House/CIA/NSA think the law is are two very different things. To wit: Blackwater's globe-hopping wet-work squad doing dry-runs over the past few years. That was a real-life BLACKBRIAR just waiting for the go-ahead to kill or capture HVT's anywhere, anytime. Reflect on the history of USG covert ops, and you have got to come to the conclusion that at any given time, the USG is involved in a handful of projects that will lead to future embarassment, scandal, shock,
      • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

        China is directing the single largest, most intensive foreign intelligence gathering effort since the Cold War against the United States....

        http://www.securityweek.com/chinas-cyber-threat-growing [securityweek.com]

        Or could it be that US is using this as an excuse to take even more control over the Internet?

        This is nothing new. I remember reading about such things in the 90's. US is good with propaganda, including entertainment and everything. Just see cold war.

        Or could it be that the world really isn't actually filled with hippies like you that think "free love" magically solves all of our problems, and is some kind of fairy dust that you just sprinkle on oppressive totalitarians to infect them with patchouli stink fantasy?

        The problem with ultra liberals like yourself is that you seem to think everyone wants to be your friend. The reality is that they don't. Many of them just want to steal/copy your success, or learn how to prevent you from obtaining it.

        It would

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Mister Whirly (964219)
          Actually, far from the enemy, China is the chief lender of money that keeps the US afloat. China is so tied to us economically the threat of them becoming our "enemy" is laughable. If they truly wanted to beat the US, all they would need to do is stop loaning the US money and cash in all of their debts to the US. But seeing they own a huge chunk of the US already, it is in their best economic interests to make sure the US is doing okay.

          And lighten up Francis - pointing out that the US is good at propagand
        • Yes, let's call a spade a spade. China, one of the worst human rights violators on Earth, if not the worst, is our enemy. Just because we trade with them does not make them our friend, nor our frienemy.

          In terms of human rights violations, are we that much better when we fund the horrible working conditions to get our electronics at a cheap price?

          And mods - with all the wonderful, colorful buzzwords up there, how has the parent avoided a troll modifier?

          • Yes, let's call a spade a spade. China, one of the worst human rights violators on Earth, if not the worst, is our enemy. Just because we trade with them does not make them our friend, nor our frienemy.

            In terms of human rights violations, are we that much better when we fund the horrible working conditions to get our electronics at a cheap price?

            "We" do not. Corporations do. Corporations only exist to convert resources into profits. Corporations do not care about such petty things like "human rights". Do not confuse human beings with corporations in the future.

            And mods - with all the wonderful, colorful buzzwords up there, how has the parent avoided a troll modifier?

            Help! Someone with mod points help me please! Won't you please mod the people that disagree with me down? That will teach them good. And mods - with all the wonderful, colorful buzzwords up there, how has the parent avoided a troll modifier?

            Ahh requesting that I am modded troll for trying

          • In terms of human rights violations, are we that much better when (jibber jabber snipped)

            Uh, yes. We don't have a cordon drawn around the entire Internet to prevent US citizens from reaching a sizeable percentage of the sites on the net that have info our government doesn't like.

            We don't use capital punishment as a routine practice for crimes like corruption.

            We don't operate a Gulag system filled with political prisoners and dissidents.

            The US Army doesn't own a huge network of Commercial Enterprises, no US

        • ...China, one of the worst human rights violators on Earth...

          ... with a prison population second to one...

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by jgtg32a (1173373)

          People have friends; countries, companies, and cats have interests.

      • "Or could it be that US is using this as an excuse to take even more control over the Internet?"

        Damn US. If it wasn't for the US the world would be such a happy place.

      • by Dishevel (1105119)
        You are correct why would China want to gather intelligence on the US. If you think about it, it's not really possible. So of course any mention of it is just a ruse.

        Why is it that I am plagued with the ability for comments written by fucktards to constantly pop out to the forefront?

      • by c++0xFF (1758032)

        News flash: it's not just the government that's worried! In fact most of the attacks are on corporations as part of state-supported industrial espionage.

        This isn't US propaganda, so put away that foil hat.

    • by Tisha_AH (600987)

      So now we can pussy-foot around China to be careful not to offend our biggest trading partner and debt holder.

      Chinese people want a good life, just like everyone else. China, the government is a friggen evil empire.

      • by slick7 (1703596)

        Chinese people want a good life, just like everyone else. China, the government is a friggen evil empire.

        Let's give them some union organizers, The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, I'm thinking.
        Where's your friggen evil empire, now?

        • Independent Trade Unions would never be allowed in China.

          They have, you see, The People's Party to act in their interest. The vanguard of the fight for the rights of the people. *cough*

          • by slick7 (1703596)

            They have, you see, The People's Party to act in their interest. The vanguard of the fight for the rights of the people. *cough*

            That's all well and good, however the People's Party doesn't seem to understand a "day's wages for a day's work". Slave labor is slave labor no matter which ideology is attached.
            Working the masses literally to death will get you talked about regardless of how big they may be.

    • And we still think of these commie rats as allies so as not to interfere with our ability to borrow the money we paid them for cheap sneakers and poisonous dog food.

    • by Lennie (16154)

      Always remember, fear is the US-politicians number one and most used method.

      Strange enough it's also one of their biggest driving forces, as politicians are also in fear of losing (campaign) money and votes.

  • Which way gets more Slashdot buzz?

    A: Give a presentation at Black Hat.
    B: Schedule a presentation of Black Hat, only to have to pulled and then a release of that fact leads to a discussion of that not-ready-for-Black-Hat topic here on Slashdot.
    C: Call CowboyNeal and ask him to post a story.

  • they did WHAT? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by v1 (525388) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @10:57AM (#32914682) Homepage Journal

    Black Hat conference cancelled one of their talks due to political pressure? Wow. I thought Black Hat was one of those "we don't care who you are, we're going to talk about this" forums?

    Usually one would ridicule other conferences with something like "Do you see Black Hat canceling like this? Grow a pair!" But this is just depressing. Guess Black Hat is experiencing some "shrinkage".

    Next thing you know they're going to be cowering over trumped up Cease and Desist orders.

    • Re:they did WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)

      by gclef (96311) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @11:04AM (#32914764)

      ???

      BlackHat caved before and they'll likely cave again (for reference, see the Cisco incident 5 years ago), *but*, the issue in this case isn't BlackHat. It's the company that employs the speaker that's feeling the pressure. BlackHat can't make someone give a talk, and if the company or speaker decides to back out, that's their choice.

    • Black Hat, yellow belly. As soon as Black Hat became big enough to have something to lose, it ceased to be the underground anti-authority thing it poses as.
    • Oh, Please! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RobotRunAmok (595286) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @11:13AM (#32914866)

      I thought Black Hat was one of those "we don't care who you are, we're going to talk about this" forums?

      Those types of organizations don't have annual conferences in Las Vegas.

      "Black Hat!" I mean, really. Who would you expect to show up at a Las Vegas venue called the "Super-Villain Expo," Lex Luthor, or wannabes in purple-spandex cosplay?

      • > Who would you expect to show up at a Las Vegas venue called the "Super-Villain Expo," Lex Luthor, or wannabes in purple-spandex cosplay?

        Great point - mod parent up.

        To answer your question, I think Lex Luthor would show up and sell purple spandex cosplay to wannabes.

      • by Nerdfest (867930)
        It's true, I always feel completely out of place there when I wear my evil overlord costume.
      • It's meant to be tounge-in-cheek. It's a part of the conference circuit for 'Security Professionals' doing 'Penetration Testing'. Yes. We are all 'Security Professionals' here, never commited what is technically a federal crime in our lives, nossir.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by autocracy (192714)

      Try DEFCON. DEFCON talks have been cancelled in the past by court orders against the speakers, but I'm not aware of DEFCON ever dropping a talk due to pressure.

      Also: lower cost, much of the same material, more material above that, and beer.

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The interesting question will be whether or not the talk pops up at b-sides (created as a venue for giving presentations which are killed by the corporate types). They have a "lightning track" section that would be perfect for this type of situation. You show up and sign up for a time slot. Not published ahead of time. I think the presenter can even request that no recording / streaming happen during his talk to reduce legal issues later.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Hatta (162192)

      I don't understand why they announce these things in advance at all. If no one knows what you're going to present, they can't stop you from presenting. Attendees can be assured that even if they don't know what's going to be discussed, it's going to be good.

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Actually "they" kind of bill Black Hat as the "legitimate" side of the conferences going on there that week. That was the feeling I got when I went there a few years ago anyway. Dofcon, on the other hand, tends to be a little more on the shady side. Although since Defcon moved to the Riviera I do recall them asking everyone to take it easy on that venue the first year.

    • by jdgeorge (18767)

      RTFA. RTFS, even. Black Hat didn't cancel the talk. The person giving the talk, CTO of Armorize, an application security company with R&D operations in Taiwan, cancelled the talk due to political pressure.

      Good grief.

    • by slick7 (1703596)

      Black Hat conference canceled one of their talks due to political pressure?

      Way slow on the uptake. If the coding and algorithms are known The Chinese will want all new coding sans the back-doors I'm sure have been included.

      I thought Black Hat was one of those "we don't care who you are, we're going to talk about this"

      If asked nicely, I'm sure they will. The only people who could intervene are the US government, for the above stated reason. To *not believe* that pawns and pawnage is in motion is truly myopic.

  • by winkydink (650484) * <sv.dude@gmail.com> on Thursday July 15, 2010 @10:59AM (#32914708) Homepage Journal

    If the US doesn't start taking the PRC's cyber offensive capabilities seriously, the US is in for a whole world of hurt. Note how, in the article, the author mentions that Titan Rain and Aurora were not viewed as surprising in Asia, but rather more like, 'yeah, yeah, what else is new?' It is widely known in the security industry that China has been pursuing cyber offensive capabilities for quite some time. Why doesn't it get more discussion?

  • Just wondering why people put up notices of these types of seminars days or weeks before the conference. Put out information a few hours ahead of time. I don't know how many concurrent seminars there are, but maybe there could be a "you really want to sit in on this" track? It just seems like a lot of these get shot down in advance for no good reason.

  • Offensive capability #3: Censoring free speech in foreign nations.

    The Politburo must be pleased by this successful demonstration.
  • What about Defcon? (Score:5, Informative)

    by ratnerstar (609443) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @11:20AM (#32914964) Homepage

    The same talk -- or at least a very similar one, by the same people -- is scheduled to be given at Defcon. Anyone know the status of that? I doubt Defcon is very susceptible to outside pressure, but since the speaker does business in Taiwan he may be reluctant to defy them.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by city (1189205)
      Defcon scheduler - "Alright, next up, speaker on the Chinese cyber-army. Any ideas anyone? You in the hood?"
      Cloaked figure - "The Chinese are not the cyber-army you are looking for." waves hand
      Defcon - "Great meeting everyone."
  • Politics. (Score:3, Informative)

    by MaWeiTao (908546) on Thursday July 15, 2010 @12:17PM (#32915778)

    The reasons why China wouldn't want this guy to speak are clear. It wouldn't be an issue for Taiwan except that current Taiwanese administration has been expanding ties with China at a fairly rapid pace. I'm sure they wanted to avoid ruffling feathers in China. We all know how ridiculous China is with any negative press, how they have to make a big show of dissatisfaction over every little thing. The Chinese leadership soils itself whenever some Taiwanese official travels to Japan or the States. So the Taiwanese, particularly those in the KMT party, are working pretty hard to keep China happy. There have been claims of censorship in Taiwan the Taiwanese media for this same reason.

    There's some strong opposition in Taiwan to these expanding ties, but my impression is that people there aren't all that troubled by this. They're far more concerned in the almighty dollar than they are principles.

  • 'nuf said.
    • The Presenter withdrew under pressure.

      I suppose the conference organizers could send out men with guns and frog march him up to the lectern. Anything less makes them pussies, eh?

  • When you do a billing and explain exactly what sensitive information you are going to be talking about far in advance of the event. How is anyone surprised when the people to whom are actually sensitive to that information object. If your going to drop an informational bombshell it needs to be a surprise.

    If your not dropping an informational bombshell then likely you are just trying to get attention and wasting everyones time.

  • We need a blacker black.. The whole world is wimping out for the love of money.

  • (Obvious (missing!)) keyword: kowtow

Man will never fly. Space travel is merely a dream. All aspirin is alike.

Working...