Penn. AG Corbett Subpoenas Twitter For Bloggers' Names 205
Dthief writes with this from Pennsylvania's ABC27 News: "The state attorney general's office has issued a subpoena threatening officials of the social networking service Twitter with arrest unless they reveal the names of two bloggers who have been critical of Attorney General Tom Corbett and his public corruption investigation. Vic Walczak of the American Civil Liberties Union told Pittsburgh's WTAE-TV that the court action 'raises grave concerns about abuse of the grand jury process to retaliate against political critics and opponents.' He said Americans 'have a right to criticize government officials and to do so anonymously.'"
Carlin (Score:4, Insightful)
In the words of George Carlin "You have no rights"
Re:Carlin (Score:4, Insightful)
For all the rhetoric of "free speech" and "liberty", it's amusing that the US government and corporations have the power to circumvent anything so long as you push it through the courts.
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Well obviously. Someone has to decide whether or not things are legal, and that someone is the judicial branch. Of course, they must follow procedure set poorly by the legislature. It's hard to know who's really to blame (just maybe the bloggers themselves have committed a crime) until the details come out.
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And a *blogger*, any, can NEVER be guilty.. of expressing their opinion or theories.
Unless those opinions and theories are libelous, hate speech, or represent credible imminent threats against another person. Americans enjoy a limited form of free expression, but there are some things that we are not able to freely express. That is a price we pay for enjoying the common protections of a civilized society; we give up the freedom to slander others in exchange for the protection from slander from others.
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You have the right to remain silent.
Oh wait, that should be "you have the right to shut the fuck up and you damned well better not criticize a government official. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. BTW, your papers please!!"
I miss America and its freedoms. I wonder where the hell it went?
Re:Carlin (Score:5, Insightful)
Technically, he's scattered ashes at this point. Which still makes him a better choice to take seriously for political philosophy than any political pundit.
Re:Carlin (Score:5, Insightful)
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Political philosophy? Isn't that the branch of philosophy dedicated to thinking up rationalizations for democracy?
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George Carlin is a crazy old anarchist stand-up comedian.......who was dead right 95% of the time.
There, I fixed that for you.
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Yes, Carlin [wikipedia.org] was a stand up comedian; people will listen to someone who makes them laugh and ignore someone who bores them. Comedy can be, ironically, deadly serious. Lenny Bruce's [wikipedia.org] comedy put him in jail, and there's little that's more serious than jail.
But... (Score:5, Interesting)
Twitter doesn't store personal details. Even putting a name in your profile name is optional. How can they provide information they don't even collect?
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Soon (Score:4, Interesting)
And, given the other story on Slashdot today, he'll soon be able to have his office look up the DNA records of the people once he identifies them.
"Hello, Somebusiness Inc? Hi, this is the Attorney General's office. We're very interested in one of your employees, Mr. X. No sorry can't tell you - it's an active investigation. But you know what's interesting... he's pretty likely to get heart disease, his insurance payments and absences are going to go way up. Oh, and his son has ALS, did you know that? He's probably going to take lots of time off soon to take care of him. Yeah, it's tough to have an employee like him, even without a criminal investigation. Oh, did we say criminal investigation? We weren't supposed to mention it. Oh well, bye"
I wonder if they will subpoena blogspot next? (Score:2)
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Re:But... I did this too - honestedits (Score:5, Insightful)
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Twitter doesn't store personal details. Even putting a name in your profile name is optional. How can they provide information they don't even collect?
That's for the courts to decide!
Re:But... (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe they'll provide the IP address..... not that it really matters. The PA General Attorney is abusing his power by trying to silence bloggers he does not like, in violation of the State Constitution (see below). It's pretty typical of the Rendell administration. His has been the most corrupt of the last twenty years.
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Freedom of Press and Speech; Libels - "The printing press shall be free to every person who may undertake to examine the proceedings of the Legislature or any branch of government, and no law shall ever by made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty.
"No conviction shall be had in any prosecution for the publication of papers relating to the official conduct of officers or men in public capacity, or to any other matter proper for public investigation or information, where the fact that such publication was not maliciously or negligently made shall be established to the satisfaction of the jury; and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases."
Reservation of Powers in People - "To guard against the transgressions of the high powers which we have delegated, we declare that everything in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government and shall forever remain inviolate."
Re:But... (Score:5, Informative)
Typical of the Rendell administration? Nice spin there- the attorney general is doing this, and he's he republican nominee for governor.
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice spin there- the attorney general is doing this
Perhaps you missed where GP says "The PA General Attorney is abusing his power by trying to silence bloggers he does not like". GP is wrong about blaming the Rendell admin though, the Constitution of Pennsylvania [state.pa.us] does not say the governor picks the Attorney General.
Falcon
Re:But... (Score:5, Informative)
Attorney general positions don't answer to the governor. They're an independent elected position answering to no one. Rendell is not his boss, and has no say over anything he does. I'm not going to comment on whether or not Rendell has other issues, but pinning anything his AG does on him is pure lies and misdirection.
This is the case in many, if not all states. Which is why the republican AG of a very very democratic state (Washington) is suing over health care reform, which is supported by the governor and majority party..
Your State may vary (Score:2)
AGs have different powers and restrictions in different states.
In Wisconsin for example, the very conservative AG has been blocked from joinging the anti-mandate lawsuit by the very liberal Governer and Legislature.
-Rick
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Re:But... (Score:5, Informative)
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I think the implication (*average* speed in excess of 90 on one trip) is that he's not slowing down for cops, because he doesn't need to.
Since "slowing down for cops" is a pretty big change in velocity (10mph is worse at the top than the bottom due to v^2...), I'd bet that it's also a significant cause of accidents, which isn't helped if there are people who don't follow the herd because they have a special relationship with the police.
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"No conviction shall be had in any prosecution for the publication of papers relating to the official conduct of officers or men in public capacity, or to any other matter proper for public investigation or information, where the fact that such publication was not maliciously or negligently made shall be established to the satisfaction of the jury
That's the devil in that detail. If he can persuade a jury that the tweets in question were "maliciously or negligently made", then he will not have violated the Constitution of PA.
Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow. Way to go authoritarian police state. Let's not even try to hide it anymore.
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Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Theres nothing simple, and trying to pin things down as black and white, us and them, usually ends in disaster, but nobody can deny the trend of current events.
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The existence of two separate father-son presidencies in 150 years suggests that perhaps nothing much has changed in terms of the concentration of political power over that time.
New boss class, old boss class, same boss class?
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Actually it's the Reich von Arizona or the Arizonischen Reichslande.
Link to subpoena? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Link to subpoena? (Score:5, Funny)
"Vern, a feller gave me this. What does 'subpoena' mean?"
"Well, shoot, Jimbob, all them fancy words is about the Latin. See here, 'Sub' means underneath, and 'poena' is what you call yer, well, yer tacklebox. So what this means is, they got you by the balls."
Re:Link to subpoena? (Score:5, Funny)
Let me be the first say (Score:5, Informative)
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Oooo.... two Republican candidates (Corbett, Paul) have shot themselves in the foot in just the last day. Maybe they're trying to lose on purpose?
"Corbett, who won the Republican nomination for governor Tuesday night, told the television station that he doesn't have any problem with people criticizing him on Twitter. He refused to discuss the nature of the subpoena, however, stating that the investigation prevents him from discussing the matter."
Re:Let me be the first say (Score:5, Informative)
You got modded down for being flat out wrong. The AG is elected and not a part of the governor's administration- he's independent. The governor couldn't make him do anything if he wanted to. You're trying to spin the story and blame the other party, and the mods caught you.
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You get modded down because the AG does not answer to the governor. You are trying to say Asshat Rendell is making Asshat Corbett do things. That is not how the AG of a state works. The AG is elected by the people and not appointed by the governor. AG Corbett is his own man and needs to be held accountable for things he does of his own free will. Unless you have proof that Rendell is forcing Corbett to do things then you are simply blaming Rendell for Corbett's actions.
Re:Let me be the first say (Score:5, Funny)
>>> (Score:3, Insightful)
This bias on this forum is interesting. Kozar says "Tom Corbett is an asshat" and oh yeah he's Republican. He gets modded up. I say that Corbett's acts are typical of the Governor's last several years of corrupt administration..... I get modded down.
+1 for noting a Republican is corrupt
-1 for noting a Democrat is corrupt
Obvious anti-R and pro-D bias on the part of Slashdot moderators.
Well duh, this is news for nerds, the mods aren't stupid.
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Any of you two-party twits ought to be modded down. If you haven't figured out that you get royally screwed by both your parties yet you're stupid in my book.
Join their twitters! (Score:5, Informative)
http://twitter.com/bfbarbie [twitter.com]
http://twitter.com/CasablancaPA [twitter.com]
Let's see if we can make them go from 300-500 followers to 3,000-5,000.
I can't believe he's making such a huge stink over someone with a few hundred followers.
Re:Join their twitters! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Can you also not read, the story explains it all. It may be all lies by the governor, but at least address that before you go of on some bullshit.
The Subpoena! (Score:2)
Elsewhere... (Score:3, Funny)
Jurisdiction? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Jurisdiction? (Score:5, Interesting)
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...it might be kinda bothersome to have to avoid layovers in Philadelphia every time you fly somewhere on the east cost.(sic)
Not really... if you lived anywhere east of the Mississippi, you'd know that everything routes through Atlanta. No, really. Flying from New York, NY to Cincinnati, OH? 3-hour layover in Atlanta.
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He is an idiot.
I'd like to tone it down a bit, but he *can't* arrest them, and he *can't* get all pissy because somebody called him names ON THE INTERNET. Therefore, he is an idiot. I don't even know what he did that they're name-calling over, but in light of his idiocy it's likely he deserves it.
Guess you should sue Slashdot now, huh? That's not fair - I'll give you a hint. I'll be in PA sometime in the next few months... good luck.
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And they had to withdraw that threat. Seems that DWP co-owns the power plants...
We know how this is going to end. (Score:5, Insightful)
Something tells me you're going to be very well acquainted with it in a day or so.
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IANAL, but isn't Mr. Corbett himself abusing his office here? And in doing so, isn't he exposing himself to criminal liability?
If so, this might culminate in something much more unpleasant than simply the Streisand Effect.
--
Corbettifect: Prosecution of a corrupt official exposed by the Streisand Effect.
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Who's going to prosecute him?
This is why Attorney General is the most powerful office in any State. Forget the State legislature, forget Governor: he who controls the prosecutions runs the show.
Twitter subpoenaed (Score:5, Informative)
That's kind of old, according do ACLU helping keep Twitter users' IDs secret in Pa. [earthlink.net] a judge will decide whether the subpoena is thrown out.
Falcon
Really Tom? Bloggers hurt your feelings? (Score:5, Informative)
Fuck Attorney General Tom Corbett and his public corruption investigation. Fuck him in his stupid ass. He is fucking clown shoes.
Come get me Tom. I dare you.
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Fuck Attorney General Tom Corbett and his public corruption investigation. Fuck him in his stupid ass. He is fucking clown shoes.
The beauty of what you said right there is that it is protected free speech and not libelous. Unless your final use of "fucking" is intended as a transitive verb rather than an adjective. Which is actually funnier.
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Yeah, half the internet, the half that can't read a story, and just accepts whatever they are told without doing any research.
Yeah, the moron half of the internet. In between posting pictures of their cats and writing messages in the name of their cats to other morons pretending to be some other cat.
Just wait til we get Ark 3 ready to launch.
Don't get all anti government here (just yet)!! (Score:5, Insightful)
If there is reasonable suspicion to believe that grand jury proceedings are being UNLAWFULLY disclosed to the public via the twitterers, then the Attorney General is merely doing his duty. Secrecy of grand jury proceedings is absolutely vital to provide fairness to the targets and to the witnesses. Reputations can be destroyed by a leak of grand jury information. The movie 'Absence of Malice' is a good illustration of how the grand jury process can be abused by illegal leakages and result in damage to innocent people.
On the other hand, the secrecy of the grand jury process gives the prosecuting attorney ENORMOUS power that can be abused by bad men or women.
Before I jump on the "enemy of freedom" bandwagon, I'd need to see the tweets. If it looks like they have an 'inside man' in the grand jury room, then I am totally on the side of the Attorney General. On the other hand, if they're just complaining about his behavior based upon what witnesses have reported about their own testimony (that's legal), then you can count me in among the haters.
There's just not enough information available yet.
I do hope Twitter moves to quash the subpoena. That way the Judge overseeing the grand jury proceedings will have to examine the prosecuting attorney's actions. If twitter caves in, then nothing is private on that website.
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Re:Don't get all anti government here (just yet)!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Attorney General Tom Corbett: (Score:2)
Current Count of Followers? (Score:2)
Anybody have a current count of their followers now?
Blocked at work :(
Anonymity (Score:3, Insightful)
Americans 'have a right to criticize government officials and to do so anonymously.'
Do they? We have a right to free speech. Where are we given a right to anonymity?
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A right to free speech also includes the right to NOT speak. ie, say my name.
Tom Corbett's real identity revealed (Score:2)
After a brief 175 microsecond investigation, we have now discovered that Tom Corbett has been posting online on Slashdot heavily as some dude named Anonymous Coward.
AG and Republican Goobernatorial Candidate... (Score:2, Funny)
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Seems like they need a great big kick in the democratic ass.
Isn't free speech allowed unless you're directly threating someone? From the stories I've read this person might be corrupted. Why is he threating with arrests instead of responding to those claims? Unless of course, he is corrupted person.
Re:FP (Score:5, Informative)
Isn't free speech allowed unless you're directly threating someone?
Apparently you haven't RTFA or done any other checking.
The particular Twitter ID's in question are linked to an ongoing corruption case against a number of Democrat politicians/operatives, and it's suspected that a defendant in that ongoing case has been tweeting & blogging anonymously about the prosecutor & AG and the investigation itself.
In many courts/proceedings, revealing proceeding-related information or attempting to poison the proceedings outside the courtroom is cause for prosecution and/or contempt-of-court charges.
If this is true and the AG has probable cause to legitimately suspect criminal actions have taken/are taking place, would he not be remiss if he did nothing?
This submission appears to be quite partisan and one-sided, as well as sparse on the facts and context.
Strat
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Dear trum4n,
Please contact us with an address at which you can be reached during business hours.
Thank you.
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but guy is still a chicken-fucker.
I have no idea whatsoever.
I'll have to leave it to your apparent expertise.
Strat
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:FP (Score:4, Insightful)
But what if the twitterer ISN'T at all connected to the investigation?
What if they are just a person who reads the papers and is pissed off, or who hears rumors from others or whatever?
Does a person lose their right to anonymous speech merely because someone SUSPECTS that they might someone else?
If he can get a subpoena, that means he will have had to have had a judge look at the evidence and decide the facts do, indeed, merit his request.
Does a person have to be tried & convicted before evidence of his crime can be subpoenaed?
That seems a bit backwards, but some people will justify an amazing amount of hypocrisy to defend their ideology & leaders. And, yes, I'd say the same things if the (R) & (D) tags were reversed, as it isn't about the party, just the crime(s). Just as I say that GWB screwed up a lot of stuff and I disagreed with many of his administration's actions and policies.
Strat
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The situation in Pennsylvania is that I wish Molly Ivins were still alive to write about a worse state government than Texas.
The accounts have criticized Corbett's use of grand juries, suggesting he used the investigations for political gain and to go after political opponents
In other words, he is using a grand jury to go after people who have accused him of abusing his power.
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Free speech does not require a judge's determination. The right to free speech trumps an investigation into leakage. The investigators will just have to find another way. This always pisses off the cops on Law and Order, but it is one of the safeguards built into the American Constitution intended to limit government power.
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It won't impinge free speech,
Actually it will. It's known as "chilling effect." If you know that it's possible for your anonymous political speech to be identified, you're less likely to criticize powerful people who can take retaliation against you.
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Not any more than one could expect otherwise. Free Speech protections don't include any measures to protect you from backlash from some stupid or defamatory things you say; it simply protects your right to speak freely. The process the GP describes is little more than a publicly accessible archive. Not dissimilar to video/audio recordings (except in terms of public accessibility). People are still bitten in the ass by spoken speech.
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Free Speech protections don't include any measures to protect you from backlash from some stupid or defamatory things you say; it simply protects your right to speak freely.
Actually it does. That's the reason why the Supreme Court upheld anonymous speech. (I'm too lazy to look up the case.)
The Constitution protects anonymous writing because the people who wrote the Constitution published anonymous writing.
I don't want to have to go to court to prove that my writing isn't defamatory. I'd rather that they couldn't find me in the first place.
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I wasn't aware that the definition of "free speech" included "the right to remain anonymous". If you want to say something, just fucking say it. If you're in a position where saying s
Re:FP (Score:5, Informative)
I wasn't aware that the definition of "free speech" included "the right to remain anonymous".
It is, in certain cases. Here [wikipedia.org] are [justia.com] several [justia.com] examples [justia.com].
If you want to say something, just fucking say it. If you're in a position where saying something is illegal (e.g. criminal libel), why should you expect to be protected by the law?
That's essentially the rule. Free speech can have a reasonable expectation of privacy. However libel, slander, violating gag orders, revealing sensitive information, and other actions are not free speech, and thus don't have any of these protections.
In cases like this, where the illegality of the speech is determined by the identity of the author (if they are a juror speaking of a case, it is illegal, but not if they are a random dude) it should be up to a judge to weight the burden of prosecution if they are acting illegaly, with the reasonable protection of someone who wasn't involved's privacy. That's why the users have the chance to file a counter-motion.
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If you then make it a condition that no AG or politician that may be under some kind of investigation can perform essential functions of their office (and for AG, investigations & prosecutions are a major part),...
This isn't a case of may be under investigation--this guy is under investigation, and this is a critical difference. If it were limited to, say, wrongdoing by someone in the AG's office, not the AG himself, it would be a wholly different matter.
then you've effectively shut down nearly all oversight and curbs on corruption.
Thus why Special (or Independent) Prosecutors [wikipedia.org] exist; and in this instance, this manner of party could be selected by the PA Legislature to remove all doubt that s/he is tainted by the AGs office. There are safeguards for this sort of thing, it's fairly difficult t
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Usually this sort of legal nonsense is reserved for nations that have lost their minds. I am not convinced that the government of Pennsylvania is at all sane these days. The right of an attorney general to investigate is clear. The right of that attorney general to involve third parties under threat of arrest is not clear at all. This is perverted law at best.
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Do the police magically know who is committing a crime as soon as you report it where you live? It must be awfully safe around there.
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Does a person lose their right to anonymous speech merely because someone SUSPECTS that they might someone else?
I wasn't aware that any person had the right to anonymous speech. This is from Wikipedia:
Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak without censorship and/or limitation. The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes used to indicate not only freedom of verbal speech but any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used. In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, such as on "hate speech".
Can you show me anywhere in relevant legislation where it says that a person has the right to be anonymous? Freedom of expression is a legal guarantee that you can't be prosecuted under criminal law for expression you views - but you still need to have the courage to express your views in the open, as opposed to behind people's back.
You may be thinking of "whistleblowing" - but there is no universal, legal protection fo
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This submission appears to be quite partisan and one-sided, as well as sparse on the facts and context.
You must be new here...
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This submission appears to be quite partisan and one-sided, as well as sparse on the facts and context.
You must be new here...
Heh! As soon as I posted that and looked at it, I thought to myself; "...in three...two...one..." :D
Strat
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So basically, what you're saying is the corrupt have rights and the honest, whether they reveal corruption within the corruption about the corrupt have no rights whatsoever?
There ain't no foxes in this here chicken coop and we'll sue anyone who says otherwise.
The submission and your assumptions are incorrect. The subpoena has to do with another ongoing investigation into corruption in which it is suspected that the defendant(s) has engaged in possibly illegal actions regarding the proceedings through the us
Re:Serious question... (Score:5, Interesting)
He's a Republican. Draw your own conclusions. I'm kidding of course, as a Republican he wouldn't dream of being in an association that has anything to do with the letter "N".
The other bit of information that doesn't appear in this summary is that he just won his parties nomination as candidate for Governor of Pennsylvania. About this, I am not kidding.
It's a very interesting story, and worth examining. His office just released a statement that he has reason to believe one of the twitter accounts that he's trying to subpoena belongs to the defendant in a case he is prosecuting. He doesn't mention anything about the other account. But since there aren't any threats alleged in these tweets, just a lot of the usual political criticisms and slams, it would seem that his cause of action, if any, would be regarding libel, which would be civil court. Instead, he uses the criminal law enforcement powers of his office to subpoena two twitter accounts, which seems to pretty much violate the First Amendment. His case would seem to question the right of anyone to make an anonymous comment on the Internet, which might be of interest to readers of Slashdot.
He's been accused of using the powers of his office to advance his political career before, and also of corruption and overreaching his constitutional powers in prosecuting a lot of Democrats and a very few Republicans. This incident is some pretty dangerous stuff, though, if you care about free speech.