Microsoft Claims Google Chrome Steals Your Privacy 522
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft is going on the offensive against Google, accusing the search giant of creating a browser that does not respect user privacy. The company posted a video, embedded below, on TechNet Edge with the following description: 'Watch a demo on how Google Chrome collects every keystroke you make and how Internet Explorer 8 keeps your information private through two address bars and In Private browsing.' Microsoft's first criticism is Chrome's combining the address bar and the search box into a single entry box; IE8 keeps those fields separate. 'By keeping these boxes separate, your privacy is better protected and the addresses of the sites you're visiting aren't automatically shared with Microsoft, or anyone else,' says IE product manager Pete LePage."
Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
Pete LePage is spot on with this. The privacy intrusion by Chrome is outstanding. Every key you type to the address bar is sent to Google. Your Chrome installation has an personal UI number to track where you downloaded Chrome from, wherever you use it and how you use it.
I am still surprised how many people (even here on our geeky slashdot group who should know better) choose something based on it being offered for free, no matter what happens to their privacy. The same people who complain about casual people using Facebook and how much information they're putting there, and not realizing how much privacy they are losing by using Google's free products and search engine.
It's a known fact that every software needs to be funded in some way. Personally I rather choose a paid solution where I know my privacy wont be lost and I can save documents, emails, etc on my own hard drive instead of relying on cloud computing and all the marketing and privacy intrusion to make it possible. After all Google is a marketing company while Microsoft is an software company. The fact they're doing business by selling me a product instead of whoring to advertisers kind of shows that.
Look.... (Score:5, Insightful)
this is news? (Score:3, Insightful)
Google wants to know everything you do. from the user opinions i've read about the Nexus One it sounds like Google is doing the same thing there. Along with Google Wave. they want to know everything you type in and keep a record of it
Bogus argument (Score:4, Insightful)
"By keeping these boxes separate, your privacy is better protected"
Umm, the boxes are all controlled by the same program, so whether or not there is physical separation between them (does that have any meaning in a user interface?) has nothing to do with whether or not the data is collected or not.
This guy is a product manager?
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me be the first to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Meh!
I don't care. I know the deal with Google. Everyone knows the deal with Google - they mine your data so they can target ads, you get useful software.
I don't mind Google's targeted ads so I feel no need for a tinfoil hat over this one.
If Google were trying to break into my bank account, I'd be worried, but I don't fear non-obtrusive advertising.
Re:Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I rather choose a paid solution where I know my privacy wont be lost and I can save documents, emails, etc on my own hard drive instead of relying on cloud computing and all the marketing and privacy intrusion to make it possible.
You do that. I'll stick with Firefox, thanks.
Re:Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Look.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if Chrome -was- violating your privacy, why switch to IE? Especially when there is Firefox.
This may come as a huge shock, but not everyone likes nor enjoys using Firefox.
Re:Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually you are spot on, but for other reasons.
With Facebook you choose what information you put or post there.
With Google you do not - they have what you have typed to address bar, what you have searched for, what your emails contain, what sites you visit, how you're there, what you do (analytics) and so on..
Actually both Google and Microsoft are worried about this - see my subscription here [slashdot.org] for a request to change relating laws.
Re:Look.... (Score:0, Insightful)
Big deal (Score:2, Insightful)
Gosh, who knew.
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
All of these settings are hidden in the advanced settings dialog
Bullshit. The search provider option is right on the first options tab. The search suggestions option is at the very top on the last tab (there are only 3 tabs), under the big blue "Privacy" label. Don't damage your own case by exaggerating the facts.
Re:Correct (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, you should have noted that the behavior is entirely CONFIGURABLE by the end user. That would have been a nice detail to pick up. It also would have been nice if you noted that IE8 does exactly the same thing when you type in it's search bar. So IE8 doesn't send the URLs you're typing to a suggestion service. Do you really care that much? If so, turn off the suggestion service. Wrench menu -> Options -> "Use suggestion service to help complete search and URLs typed in the address bar". Was that so hard? You can uncheck the other things under the Privacy heading too.
Also, if you read the article, you'd get the point that this Microsoft spokesperson just glossed over the fact that IE8's search bar uses the same kind of suggestion service. You're naive if you think Microsoft doesn't mine the data gathered from Bing.
Finally, Chrome may be free, but if you actually took the time to understand how it is built and engineered, you'd understand it is a high quality piece of software. It wasn't just thrown together in order to steal people's private lives.
Re:Bogus argument (Score:3, Insightful)
Separating these two is a huge thing. As it is with Chrome, Google knows everything you've typed in and what websites you have visited. With other browsers (with separated address and search bars) they only know what you're typing to the search query box. Major difference.
No, it's not. Any developer knows that you could very well have both inputs being sent continuously to whomever they want. Also, you'd be amazed at the number of people who type the URL in the search box anyway. You'd be even more amazed at the sheer number of people who type their URLs in the search box of their Google homepage.
People don't like URLs. Google has become the new DNS.
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm with you and to be honest it is more about perception of the company than anything else really.
When I upgraded to IE 8, their questioneer about what I want IE to do. Everything microsoft related was disabled.
If google wants to collect data I could care less because I have a fuzzy warm trust feeling when I use their software.
Microsoft on the other hand I feel like I have to keep them at bay.
Same with other companies even ones I trust to provide antivirus software, handle my accounting ect. I just don't put as much blind faith in them. Maybe it is because they have all let me down in the past where in ways that matter to me. New companies have to earn my trust.
Re:Not Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
I've read the title of the summary, and dismissed it as an especially smelly load of swine shit. Every browser has it's own issues, and the user should be familiar with them. Yeah, all the browsers tend to keep records that are unnecessary. All the browsers tend to report data that is unnecessary, to websites, to developers, to the authors, if left on default settings.
But, for MICROSOFT to point fingers is just preposterous.
Maybe they can try again in 10 years, after they've created a clearly superior browser. I mean, CLEARLY superior to anything else on the market. When those of us who really dislike and/or hate microsoft HAVE to admit that their browser is at least as good as any of the competition, THEN MS can find fault with the competition.
Wait - did I say "10 years"? Hmmmmmm. More than likely, browsers will be obsolete before Microsoft makes the browser that is clearly superior to any competition that can be found.
Re:Not Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
What's so hard to understand about this problem? Most users want to use suggestions only for their searches, not URLs they enter. Chrome only allows toggling suggestions for both.
Re:Not Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
To add to that, what is to stop a software vendor (MS) from simply gathering the information typed into ANY field in a browser. Whether they are in a combo field or not is irrelevant. What a ridiculous argument.
Obnoxious Motherfuckers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
All of these settings are hidden in the advanced settings dialog
They aren't hidden, they're quite visible. 3 clicks show you them.
Gee! Thanks Microsoft.. (Score:2, Insightful)
So Chrome is a keylogger. Most of the new commercial stuff probably is. Nobody seems to care enough to do some deep checking...
Re:Not Correct (Score:2, Insightful)
They (M$) do collect this information locally if you have form auto-completion. But they don't send anywhere, unlike google.
Re:Not Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
It's useless. Most Slashdotters have their heads so far up Google's ass, nothing you say will reach their ears. This is a company that indexes everything forever, including your email and IM conversations. It gets praised as some "open source company" when its main product--its search engine and advertising platform--is as closed as Windows. It only uses open source products to get people onto its proprietary advertising platform.
Re:Not Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not true, if they wanted to keep it anonymous, they wouldn't send session cookie with each request. Yet they do. Session id is not required for auto-suggestions.
Once again they don't just receive everything you type in address bar, they also associate it with your session.
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
"If google wants to collect data I could care less because I have a fuzzy warm trust feeling when I use their software."
What happens when they burn your trust? Bit late to take all your information back. Oops.
That warm fuzzy trust feeling...its called good will. They are trading on that. Its an entry on their balance sheet. Its valuable to them. But they'll sell it tomorrow for the right price.
What if they're hacked (again)?
And who knows what direction the next CEO will go? What if their advertising revenues collapses? Or they pull an Enron? For all we know the ultimate fate of google will be to be bought out by Microsoft.. the very company you feel has to be "kept at bay". And suddenly Microsoft has all your information... that you so willingly handed over to Google. Oops.
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean via the same mechanism where you type information into 'Bing', and then 'Bing' responds with your search results?
Most people don't type in 100 character URL's (I don't know of any) they either have it bookmarked, or they search for it via, you guess it, the search engine like Google, Bing, or whatnot.
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not Correct (Score:2, Insightful)
Dude, if it's in an "Options" dialog we already know that 90% of users will not bother to touch it.
Also, while the first options tab controls *who* you send every single keystroke to, it isn't until you go to the "Under the Hood" tab that you can actually turn the feature off. So don't give me this "but but it isn't an advanced setting" crap just because the tab isn't named "Advanced".
Re:Bogus argument (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Not Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
how many users you think are going to check those just to know their privacy isn't violated?
All of them that are that anal about their privacy will.
Most of us, frankly, don't care if Google knows what addresses we've been putting into the address bar. It's not that big a deal. I could see terrorists or industrial spies not wanting to use chrome, but really, for most people this is not the kind of "privacy issue" that has them concerned. I use Google exclusively for my searches, so what difference is the address bar going to make? Get a grip, I and most others already trust them with far greater than the address bar, it is a non-issue.
Now, if you want to argue that Google should not be trusted, I'm all ears. So far they've done right by me and everybody else though, so you'd better have something pretty damning to make me change my mind.
Re:Not Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
All of these settings are hidden in the advanced settings dialog
They aren't hidden, they're quite visible. 3 clicks show you them.
I seem to recall it is 4 clicks to disable UAC in Windows, but remember how much of a stink that put up when it came out? It's all about the DEFAULT behaviour of a program that determines the software company's evil or not evil motives.
So then what do you recommend? (Score:2, Insightful)
So then what is a good browser? I do value privacy so I don't use Chrome (I figure google can have either my search history or web browsing history but not both, and adblock for Chrome really sucks). I hate ads so I don't use Opera (the adblock solution also sucks). I don't care about bloat, but I do care about speed, and firefox is the slowest of the main browsers I use (I do not use IE8). The four things I care about are security, ad-blocking, speed, and privacy. It looks like this is another case of "choose 3 out of 4".
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, Firefox's default behavior is to serve up your keystrokes to google as well, so I think the main point is that all three browsers' defaults aren't privacy friendly.
Re:Obnoxious Motherfuckers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't care. I know the deal with Google. Everyone knows the deal with Google - they mine your data so they can target ads, you get useful software.
Greetings from 2030! Your post happened to fall through a wormhole in the space-time continuum, and we just can't stop laughing here about it. In 2030 Google is the new Microsoft, and Microsoft is the new IBM. Microsoft finally turned out to be a decent company, though it took some hard knocks to get there. Their stock price was in free-fall during much of the teens as they lost market share to just about everyone.
Google on the other hand mined everyone's data, and now if you type the "wrong" thing into the address bar you might wind up on a no fly+no drive list. This was a response to the terrorist attack of 2017 under President Palin (yes she's still an idiot) where ten Scientologists drove Mack trucks filled with gelignite into the psychology departments of 10 of the large Universities. Even if you manage to stay off the no fly+drive lists there's still the "targeted ads" that come up on your TV based on your Internet usage and buying patterns. It's pretty embarrassing having friends over and seeing targeted ads for "Nailin' Palin 25". or for the boomers "Depends". But hey, on the plus side since Microsoft turned off evil there's actual software compatibility and standards.
Re:The scary thing is... (Score:3, Insightful)
I've never tried Google Chrome, but now I never will unless they take this "feature" out.
They've already given you the option to disable it, good night.
Don't you do your searches with Google? You can't tell me you use Bing... This is trivial compared to your search history.
You also trust your ISP with everything you do on the net, I don't see you disconnecting your internet for that "invasion" of your privacy.
Seriously, you people need to get a grip. There isn't one person in ten thousand who's address bar history is so important that they'd actually care to dig it up and link it to you directly. You just aren't that important. The only reason Google uses it at all is to target unobtrusive advertisements at you - which makes ads less annoying and more relevant to you anyway.
Re:Not Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, lots of engineers want to make the world a better place in some way.
They are paid by people with money in order to make them more of it. The "bonus" for the workers is that they keep their jobs.
Hypocrisy Anyone? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
MS "fuzzing" Pwn2Own results? (Score:2, Insightful)
How is Microsoft's response here not them trying desperately to spin their way past the latest Pwn2Own results from CanSecWest? Safari, Firefox and IE8 all went down pretty quickly. Chrome wasn't even attempted. Nobody there had a way to take it down. Money was left on the table.
( http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/2010/02/15/pwn2own-2010 [tippingpoint.com] )
Microsoft's response?
First claim that Windows 7 isn't really meant to prevent you from hacking into it.
( http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9174309/Microsoft_defends_Windows_7_security_after_Pwn2Own_hacks [computerworld.com] )
Then try to convince people Chrome is somehow worse.
Seem's like that makes your choice to either accept that a company like Google knows what information you're looking for [turn off the option, heck even use a different browser. I'm sure they can figure it out anyway.] or letting random anyhacker access ALL the data on your system.
I'll take option A thanks.
Re:Not Correct (Score:2, Insightful)
Not an excuse for two boxes (Score:2, Insightful)
This is some rather lame marketing by Microsoft because Chrome's user experience with one magic box for address and search is so spot on and IE's dual boxes seems so lame and dated. Particularly in Windows, it is just as easy to get at keystroke messages for all windows as it is to get them in one, you can go in your main message loop:
while (GetMessage(msg)) {
if( msg.something == WM_KEYDOWN)
log(msg);
}
I think would work for just about everything.
So yes, Microsoft might have a point about Chrome invading your privacy, but, at the same time, trying to bundle it in with a critique of chrome's single window is just marketese and really undermines the rest of their own point. It's such a stretch of reality, that you have to wonder how much the rest of their message is true.
Re:Not Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, most of that 90% of users who wouldn't bother changing the default options in Chrome probably wouldn't have Chrome to begin with. Most of those users would be using whatever browser came pre-installed on the PC that they ordered from Dell or picked up at Sam's Club, and many of them probably haven't even heard of Chrome yet.
My point is that Chrome already has a pretty advanced user base (advanced enough to know how to download and install a web browser, anyway), and they would know how to edit privacy options if they wanted to do so.
Re:Correct (Score:4, Insightful)
I've accidentally gone back while filling out a major form (that won't remember its state on a click of forward) enough times to want to simply remove the backspace key from my keyboard. I am happy to hear someone's getting rid of this asinine default. cmd/alt-left/right are fine. backspace has a specific meaning that has nothing to do with history navigation.
Re:Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
do you not think that Firefox is becoming the new IE?
Well, seeing as Firefox supports HTML5 and web standards well enough for me to create pages that work as well in Firefox as they do in Chrome, Safari, Opera, etc... ...and said pages break in IE, and only in IE...
When Firefox starts breaking the fucking Internet, it will be the new IE, and not before.
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
What's so hard to understand about this problem? Most users want to use suggestions only for their searches, not URLs they enter.
Bullshit. Most users only use the search bars on Firefox and IE, anyway. And they frequently type URLs into them. If I had a nickel for every time I saw someone type "google" into the search bar, click the first result from MSN and then type a search...
Usage studies is how Google came to their cleaner interface. Your concerns about privacy are valid, and I wouldn't doubt that factored into their design decisions, but I wouldn't be surprised if the other browsers combined their bars eventually, too. We're already moving that way with FX's awesome-bar.
Re:Look.... (Score:2, Insightful)
As someone reading who has never used Chrome, let me tell you that you are begging the question when you write:
Something is really wrong if Chrome is so slow on your setup. For me, it's much much faster than Firefox, especially when I have a lot of tabs open.
Maybe something is wrong with your system if Firefox is running slow on it.
Re:Look.... (Score:2, Insightful)
that would be a lot more insidious if it wasn't broadly advertised, and just about the only way to get any sort of decent speed out of a browser in 2.5G.
Re:Not Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
As somebody who personally knows people working on Chrome, I can assure you that data mining was not the goal of Chrome. Most engineers at Google are sincerely trying to make the Web a better place. That this actually helps Google is just a bonus for them.
What, and the engineers working at Microsoft all cackle evilly muttering about sharks and laser beams as they plot to take over the software industry? The people working on a product are essentially never the ones with ill intent.
The intent of the people working on the project is quite irrelevant. What matters is the company itself, and what they can do with what they've developed. Everyone wants to believe that Google is some benevolent savior, but the realities of large business suggest otherwise. Let's say they are at this moment. How long do you think that attitude can last?
Re:Not Correct (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, Firefox's address bar searches your local bookmarks and history. The "suggestions" are from your own locally stored browsing habits, which you can burn to the ground with every exit if you like.
--
Toro
Re:Not Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
And 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot!
Re:Not Correct (Score:1, Insightful)
Because unlike the other evil giants, someone still has to prove that Google actually is evil.
Re:Not Correct (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly ... and as for suggestions ... they may be sending requests with keystrokes, but I would imagine they are not 'storing' them along with their order and identifiable data (They could be, but I doubt it). I would think that would be too unreliable and risky in terms of performance. Firefox does essentially the same thing via it's search box when Google and/or Yahoo are selected.
I bet they do store *queries*. A Request does not automatically equate to storing something in a database. Do MSN/BING/Yahoo!/[INSERTSEARCHPROVIDER] not store the queries (along with environmental info. about those queries) and the subsequent clicks and look at that data?
And there's things like this from the article:
---
In the second part of the video, LePage demonstrates how Internet Explorer 8 has a privacy feature called InPrivate, a privacy mode to allow browsing without leaving a trace. Unfortunately, he fails to acknowledge the existence of Google Chrome's Incognito, which disables history tracking, which undercuts his argument.
---
And there's the question of how IE does it's Anti-phishing ... I'm sure it send all your URL's through M$'s network. Does he address whether or not those are stored? M$ is just mad that Google beat them to the idea ... Look for it in a future version of IE. Move along folks ... nothing new to see here.
Just check your browser's privacy options and set them to level you are comfortable using them.