A Look Into China's Web Censorship Program

kev0153 writes "MSNBC is offering a good article explaining some of the details behind China's web censorship program. 'Google's face-off with Beijing over censorship may have struck a philosophical blow for free speech and encouraged some Chinese Netizens by its sheer chutzpah, but it doesn't do a thing for Internet users in China. Its more lasting impact may lie in the global exposure it has given to the Chinese government's complex system of censorship – an ever-shifting hodgepodge of restrictions on what information users can access, which Web tools they can use and what ideas they can post.'"

google leaving does help chinese citizens

[mentil]

Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out. The Chinese govt. will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that isn't embarrassing. More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet, leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.

Chinese government's "complex" as to what passes

[PdbAqB]

Our site http://1place.com.au/ [1place.com.au] is blocked which on has our work or intellectual property generally (e.g. art events, design, patents, copyright, latest trade mark disputes, great marketing podcasts...) .... However, the bare buttocks at the opera house as photographed by Spencer Tunick has no problems getting passed the great wall: http://thespencertunickexperience.org/2010-03_Sydney/Sydney_The_Base_2010.htm [thespencer...rience.org] I was surprised. We were informed by a Chinese resident that: "Nudity is no probelm. It is subversive activity [of IP protection] such as your website that is blocked."

Re:google leaving does help chinese citizens

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a retard and have no understanding of China. Google isn't popular (or profitable) in China and won't be missed. The vast majority of Chinese people are very xenophobic and trusting/loyal of their government. They can ignore it or point out that google was violating state law and that's that. Chinese people generally know they're being censored and don't care.

Judgement packet...

[headkase]

Remember the Star Trek Deep Space Nine episode where Quark is trying to get a replacement module to go in the head of Garrak (my spellings are probably atrocious), anyway: he contacts a "supplier" in the Cardasian government and asks him to look up the part number for him. The supplier does so and his computer informs him that by looking up that part number he has been automatically sentenced to 20 years or so of hard labor. Now that's efficiency. Quark hastily says good bye and cuts the connection.

How to beat the Chinese FW

[sebaseba]

A friend has recently been to China, that is PRC. IRC worked normally, although he couldn't access facebook. So I've set up a normal HTTP proxy which was blocked immediately after the first page shown (facebook.com). IIRC it didn't even resolve facebook.com, we've had to put IPs in... but still my point is: they analyze the packets and they've seen the CONNECT in HTTP headers as it worked only on once request. After that I've set an another proxy (on an another IP), this time HTTPS. That worked, although you must route DNS requests somehow outside China or have a local nslookup table ;)

the chinese government delivers economic growth

[circletimessquare]

and so the people are not about to second guess it, as this has dramatically improved their lives

in the 1970s, we could have an argument about china avoiding capitalism, and you would have said: "who cares, the people still support the government"

but the government, wisely, embraced capitalism, jettisoning communism, leading them to where they are today

the same choices apply to democracy and freedom of expression

eventually, growth slows or declines, its inevitable: no economy grows forever. when that happens, the MAJORITY will grumble, and they will run headlong into their own government (no grumbling allowed!) then what? is the picture you paint of a mostly placated populace still relevant in your depictions?

now, the government, in its wisdom, could embrace freedom of expression and democracy, at some point, before the capitalist ride to prosperity peaks. and they thereby install pressure relief valves in society, and thus china is truly modern, and stable, and i would embrace such a china

but they also could wed themselves to continued absolute control of all expression and decide everything by elite class

and chinese society will begin to fall apart, and i will continue my disapproval

Re:Confusicanism's perspective on censorship

[Foofoobar]

And what would Confucious say when the crooked are the ones in power enforcing who is set aside as crooked and who is set aside as upright?? Who watchs the Watchmen?

Re:Confusicanism's perspective on censorship

[Dave Emami]

You quote Confucius, I'll quote Lao Tzu (founder of Taoism):

A leader is best when people barely know that he exists, not so good when people obey and acclaim him, worst when they despise him. Fail to honor people, They fail to honor you. But of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done, his aims fulfilled, they will all say, "We did this ourselves."

As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire, the people grow poorer and poorer. When the people are subjected to overmuch government, the land is thrown into confusion. When the people are skilled in many cunning arts, strange are the objects of luxury that appear. The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be. Therefore the Sage says: "So long as I do nothing, the people will work out their own reformation. So long as I love calm, the people will right themselves. If only I keep from meddling, the people will grow rich."

If the government is sluggish and tolerant, the people will be honest and free from guile. If the government is prying and meddling, there will be constant infraction of the law. Is the government corrupt? Then uprightness becomes rare, and goodness becomes strange.

Re:Impact

[Anonymous Coward]

What is more dangerous?

1) Knowing that your government censors certain information and that the gov't news is biased, as most Chinese people do?
or
2) Having media that act essentially as political arms of the government, and subtly alter what they feed you as "truth" so that the average citizen believes that the news is actually factual?

Re:a government that fears its own people is weak

[nobodie]

Well, yes and no. The Chinese people, for the most part, understand the reality of the current situation. They know they are censored and controlled and treated like children. They accept it because it has always been this way and (most importantly) because revolution or any rapid and radical change (whatever you choose to name it) would be so horrible that no one really wants to think about it. An explosive upwelling, caused by major economic downturn would be so disruptive and destructive that the total cost would be ... I just can't imagine what a bloodbath it would be. Think French revolution kind of bloodbath but with a million times the population. This is what the Chinese people recognize as the cost of instability, so they are willing to accept whatever their government says they must have to maintain stability. Now, I know, and maybe you do as well that the government course is also about enriching the top 1 percent of fat greasy men who pull the strings. They are also the ones who will be gone when the whole thing melts down, but for now they are holding it all together. I see posts below that talk about fear, the fear here is real and it is not really people afraid of the government, it is people afraid of the absence of government as well as government afraid of people out of their control.

How do you know that YOUR reality is superior?

[jjo]

I'm really sick of supercilious observers proclaiming that THEY know the one, true, reality and can therefore detect that the mainstream media are leading the masses by the nose. Those ineffably superior observers are, of course, immune to manipulation, and demonstrate their superiority by pointing out that fact. Give me a break.

The real beauty of free speech is that every point of view, distorted this way and that, to a greater or lesser degree, is available for people to compare and choose from. That is TOTALLY different from censorship, which restricts the spectrum of views available.

I suspect that the real problem these stuck-up observers have is that the masses disagree with their infallible judgement, and therefore the masses must have been manipulated and misled.

Re:Impact

[Lakitu]

(1) is obviously worse, because it assumes that (2) is not a subset of (1). The citizens believing what is "fed to them as 'truth'" can exist with or without outright government censorship.

You are falsely illustrating the choice between government censorship with the citizens knowing exactly what is censored, versus no government censorship with the citizens unknowingly ignorant. Citizens can be unknowingly ignorant with or without government censorship, so it is crazy to say that the censorship is beneficial.

If you think Americans believe what is "fed" to them as "truth", then you are crazy! Part of the reasoning behind the first amendment and the strong freedoms of speech in the USA is that it allows anyone, no matter how crazy or stupid, to speak their mind. When everyone in the country knows that anyone could be saying anything, no matter how dumb it is, there is an innate distrust of the media.