ACTA Internet Chapter Leaked — Bad For Everyone 410
roju writes "Cory Doctorow is reporting on a leaked copy of the 'internet enforcement' portion of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. He describes it as reading like a 'DMCA-plus' with provisions for third-party liability, digital locks, and 'a duty to technology firms to shut down infringement where they have "actual knowledge" that such is taking place.' For example, this could mean legal responsibility shifting to Apple for customers copying mp3s onto their iPods." Adds an anonymous reader, "Michael Geist points out that the leaks demonstrate that ACTA would create a Global DMCA and move toward a three-strikes-and-you're-out system. While the US has claimed that ACTA won't establish a mandatory three strikes system, it specifically uses three-strikes as its model."
This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a much bigger threat to freedom and democracy than terrorism ever could be.
Where's the Obama transparency? (Score:1, Insightful)
I guess the transparency on this project, although inherited from the previous secretive administration, went the same way as the CSPAN broadcasts of the health care debate.
Mining the DMCA safe harbor (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds more like "DMCA-minus" than "DMCA-plus", with mines being planted in the DMCA safe harbor.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
Great... (Score:0, Insightful)
So, what can we (US Citizens) do to stop this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a much bigger threat to freedom and democracy than terrorism ever could be.
I wish I could attribute the saying, but here is how I've heard it said: If your law requires a police state to enforce, then your law is a bad law.
The very fact that these meetings were held in secret was a dead giveaway that nothing in our interests is going on in there.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:5, Insightful)
An equally wise American once said "..and that government: of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
And? One would have to be a deity of disingenuous rhetoric to make a case that there is anything "by" or "for the people" about the contemporary government system. It's been gamed, expertly so, and the only ones who could fix it are those who benefit from it.
You'd better start to love it, because ACTA and more like it are going to happen, and there's not a damned thing anyone can do about it.
Cue naive, high-school idealists who blame the voters and/or claim that voting could stop it.
Re:This is absurd (Score:5, Insightful)
It was incredibly good for the economy, if by "economy" you mean "campaign funds."
Re:So, what can we (US Citizens) do to stop this? (Score:4, Insightful)
What would be the due process for contacting whomever in government has the power to stop this thing? Or do we have no option?
We have no option. You know how, when talking about annoying/abusive advertising practices, people love to say "you're not the customer, you're the product?"
Welcome to reality: the government views you exactly the same way.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:5, Insightful)
People can't be scared of things they aren't aware of. Most people aren't aware of much the government is doing these days.
Governments passing laws to control people so much seems to indicate that the government is scared of the people and is trying to regain control.
Oddly enough it seems we are in the situation of government fearing the people more that the people fearing the government. So that means... We have Liberty?
Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact is that each of us probably commits three felonies a day as it is, or so says Harvey Silverglate of the EFF, ACLU, and FIRE (see his book "Three Felonies a Day.") Heck, it's probably a felony (under wire fraud statutes) to surf Slashdot while you are at work. And given that it's a felony there, it's probably also a felony under the CFAA. So if you surf Slashdot at work, you are already two thirds of the way there.....
The fact is it doesn't matter if you have done anything wrong. The current state is that the government can prosecute just about anybody on vague laws and make it extremely difficult to fight (try hiring a lawyer will all your assets frozen).
I am of the opinion that the Constitution is in shambles anyway. I oppose this treaty but I am too cynical to think that will make a difference. Prosecutors can ALREADY go after anybody they want to.
Re:Maybe it'll be a good thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, you're not, but you are still in a minority.
Face it, 90% of the population of any given country involved in ACTA don't care in the slightest about copyright and patents and net neutrality and the like; at least, they don't realise they do, even if they do. They're quite happy to carry on with their lives and put up with or work around any shit that new legislation throws at them without changing their day-to-day routine.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:5, Insightful)
When government fears the people there is a ineffectual weak populist government that fears making difficult decisions because people collectively are pretty damn stupid. Alas that isn't catchy and doesn't use a clever mechanic of opposites, but alas, reality can't always be handled in a pithy statement.
Government should respect the people, earn their trust, and work as their loyal servants. Neither side should fear the other.
Re:Treason, and terrorism (Score:4, Insightful)
Next up, you're not allowed to know what you've been charged with or what you've been sentenced to.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
But it's far less personally dangerous. Most people are not killed by the *AA nor by DMCA or ACTA. People ARE killed by terrorists (and war, etc). Thus it is most definitely a more personally dangerous threat.
And most people care more immediately about their personal welfare than their freedom, if it comes down to it.... I think.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:4, Insightful)
If ACTA is anything to go by, it appears there are those who feel we do have [too much] liberty.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:4, Insightful)
--
Remember, it's not terrorism if it's by the people, of the people, for the people!
Canadian solution (Score:4, Insightful)
For me the proper solution to the piracy concerns from the US is to stop the import of all movies, music, tv shows and any thing else they are so worried about people stealing at the border. If other countries did it as well then production would move from the US to other locations. Problem solved they wouldn't have to worry about people stealing their content any more. I swear, I try not to hate Americans, but when they start demanding that we abandon our laws and customs and adopt theirs I just loose it. How long till the next secret treaty is about making every one, every where abandon their gun control laws because that is how it is in the US?
ISP Reason for Public Domain (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:When governments cease to represent their citiz (Score:3, Insightful)
It's in your interest that the rich become richer. After all, doesnt it trickle down?
I'm still waiting for that top 1% to release the cash on us poor 99%ers
Oh wait, they're just going to lock us up for pirating things they sell that we cant afford, because they refuse to pay us a humane living wage and provide us a country of fair laws that represents the interest of its people....
we are so fucked.
Its the kind of shit that makes you want to fly planes into buildings... but then they label you as "crazy" rather than try to understand why you were crazy... even when you write a perfectly sound explanation as to why.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually tyrants fear the people more than democrats. In a democracy, those in power mainly fear to get voted out of office. Tyrants fear to be forcefully removed, with high probability of being killed, and an assured uncomfortable life if he survives the revolution.
Keep dreaming *AA (Score:3, Insightful)
Lofty goals. This isn't enforceable, legally or practically. Three strikes and you get kicked off the internet? How? Will I have a chip in my arm that keeps my router from working? Even if they were somehow able to blacklist me from every ISP how would they stop me from using freely available Wifi? How will they shut down Freenet? How will they stop me from burning CDs and just handing it to my friend?
This isn't going to change anything.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:2, Insightful)
A Man much wiser than me once said "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
There should be neither.
The government should be the people.
Right now the government is more the corporations than the people.
Until we start electing people who grew up downloading music, or those in power will have lawyers bills because their kids were charged with downloading music, I doubt much will change.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
Then be glad you live in the US which has a very strong and active military, still.
Other countries are significantly less fortunate.
I didn't say terrorism was a huge threat; but at the very least, the perceived physical threat of terrorism is significantly greater than the perceived physical threat of the RIAA.
Also, it would be interesting to know not just successful "terrorism" - however the statistician defines it - but the ones that were caught, as well. Those contribute to the perception.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Great... (Score:3, Insightful)
http://www.gp.org/index.php
Well look at that... I voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004..
He was right back then... and no one believed him and now look at us dick deep in the shit he predicted and NO ONE STILL GIVES A DAMN TO VOTE for a 3rd party. The dems have adopted his issues yet do nothing about them.
Ralph was right... and Everyone of you should look into him seriously if he runs again.
Re:This is absurd (Score:4, Insightful)
* Of course, I don't agree with bullshit like ACTA and the DMCA. The content providers haven't produced anything worth a shit in decades so the best solution to this is not to buy their shit and instead donate that money to the EFF and The Pirate bay.
So now you know!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Keeping it secret is a matter of national security when the nation is controlled by private interests.
Fat, Dumb and Happy (Score:2, Insightful)
Most are either too affluent (or is it effluent?), or too desperate, to care about these things.
The narcissistic direction that western culture has taken - "I'm alright Jack, sucks to be you" - magnifies this issue. Without concern for the common (greater) good, I think we will ultimately consume ourselves.
-I.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:5, Insightful)
An equally wise American once said "..and that government: of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Unless you want to leave his government, then he is all for jailing you without trial and suspending habeas corpus. He is also cool with using total war in order to invade one section of the country, burning down such cities as Atlanta and devastating the region. He also brought about the income tax, which was at the time unconstitutional (like much of what he did). Sure, he freed a terribly oppressed group of people, but he used another form of slavery (conscription) to achieve it.
Re:Tyranny vs Liberty (Score:5, Insightful)
unenforceable (Score:4, Insightful)
seriously, let them pass every goddamn unenforceable law they want
ten million technologically sophisticated, media hungry and POOR teenagers have them beat, sight unseen. they simply cannot enforce ACTA. seriously. its castles in the sky
i understand completely the concept of a legal framework to encourage the creation of cultural works via economic incentives
except what they are talking about goes WAY WAY beyond that concept and extends into the realm of corporate ownership of culture for no purpose that serves the general public in any way whatsoever
seriously, when
1. grandchildren of some guy who wrote a song are legally entitled to a cash flow, and
2. when pseudolegal structures are empowered to intrusively monitor the supposed free exchange of ideas central to a healthy society,
then the very idea of intellectual property law is philosophically and morally broken, and must simply be ignored and/ or outright actively destroyed by anyone with a moral compass and a passion for the concepts underlying western liberal democracy
ip law is a parasitical device distribution companies have bought and paid for via legislative interference to somehow validate their existence. distribution companies that have simply been replaced by the internet. they can buy all the fucking laws and all the prostitute legislators and all the legions of corporate legal goons. who fucking cares. unless they actually break the internet to the extent of china and iran, which even their legislative whores would feel uncomfortable about, their entire legal fantasy is an unenforceable joke for some highly motivated teenagers to route around, package as a point and click interface, and give away for free
technological progress is a bitch. no law can trump it unless you want to stop the very notion of progress itself. so for all of the power of media companies, i simply don't see them powerful enough to crush the foundational concepts of western liberal democracy simply in order to retain their antiquated reason for existence
death throes of a dinosaur. people should fucking know when they are defeated already. and the entirety of the media industry has most certainly been defeated
if they won't go peacefully, we'll just kill them. p2p is only the beginning. there are a million more technologically sophisticated methods. dark nets. steganography. obfuscation. protocol impersonation. and best of all: play countries against each other. set up shop in one, jump to the other. always a step ahead of the assholes. who are we? any goddamn poor terenager. there's no structure needed. a simple desire for one's own culture is the only imperative needed to defeat these assholes. let them sniff all they want. it's a pandora's box. a hydra: cut off its head, we grow ten more. they're doomed. let's make sure they fucking know it
bring it on media corporate assholes. bring all your legal goons and all your bought and paid for legislative puppets and all your paid for tech hacks and all your pseudo corporate governmental entities. we have you beat, and we welcome the fight in the name of the greatest principles of the free exchange of ideas and a free society and simple moral integrity. you're fucked, and your defeat is for the common good
you can't own our culture. we won't let you. we are simply motivated for the love of music, literature, and cinema. you don't own it. we the people do. fuck off and die. we will burn your toll booths to the ground
bring it on. bring your worst. we have you beaten, hard
i spit on you corporate assholes. i relish your comeuppance
Both are terrorism (Score:4, Insightful)
If you can be terrorized and that is their intent then they are terrorists. You do not have to be killed for it to be terrorism.
A team of industry lawyers taking you for everything you have, your time, possibly your freedom and now even more criminal law. They want to make examples and terrorize their customers. "Hired guns" now wear suits but the phrase lives on for a reason.
Re:been accused counts as a strike = easy DOS (Score:5, Insightful)
How about aquiring a list of those who created ACTA, and accusing them all of whatever.
But I think a new virus would be better. One that targets ACTA creators and their friends, and has a child porn payload. Then it automatically triggers a call to the cops. ^^
Re:Treason, and terrorism (Score:3, Insightful)
Doesn’t this exist already in the US? It’s the laws that allows homeland security to deport you to Guantanamo.
No phone call. No asking why. Nothing. Basically the laws of Gulags and KZs. (And at the same time Cheney’s company builds tons of new jails too.)
Land of the free my ass! :(((
Re:Keep dreaming *AA (Score:5, Insightful)
Lofty goals. This isn't enforceable, legally or practically. Three strikes and you get kicked off the internet? How? Will I have a chip in my arm that keeps my router from working? Even if they were somehow able to blacklist me from every ISP how would they stop me from using freely available Wifi? How will they shut down Freenet? How will they stop me from burning CDs and just handing it to my friend?
This isn't going to change anything.
(In my best Morpheus impression when speaking to Neo during training). What makes you think these laws have anything to do with enforcement? You think they care about what numbers they change on this Internet?
Remember NO law is ever suggested without it ultimately meaning money and/or power to someone.
Re:Not sure it's even good for them. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem very quick to attribute the fact that terrorism is a trivial threat to the fact that the US has a very strong and active military.
On a related note I have a rock here which keeps tigers away.
I have this rock and I don't see any tigers.
Have you considered comparing the US to countries which do not have a large and active military.
Even better try comparing it to countries which have no standing military.
Re:Why isn't China a Partner? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
You'd be able to help out best by joining your local Pirate Party.
Pirate Party Canada [pirateparty.ca]
Pirate Party International [pp-international.net] - Find your own country's here.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:4, Insightful)
Whilst the motives of the pirate party are generally okay, they're all but a gauranteed failure due to their ridiculous name and single focus. Few voters will put a tick next to "Pirate Party" on their ballot form, just from the name alone.
It'd be infinitely better to get real political parties onboard with the ideas than play around with joke parties that will never have the power to implement their ideas. Sadly many nations are stuck in faux democracy two party politics where voters get to choose the lesser of two very similar evils.
Failing that, at least change the name to appeal to the more general population. Something like "Reform Party." Something that isn't trivial to twist in the voters minds. Something that's not setting the party up to be easily demonised into irrelevance.
It's up with "The Gimp" for 'worst name ever' award. It's hard to think of a worse name for a political party, although rural canola producers one day might come up with the "Farmers for Rape" party. I live in hope.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would you feel safe? The terrorists have already caused your country to cower in fear, installing detectors at airports, ramping up people's paranoia and generally screwing you over.
On top of that, you've spent hundreds of billions on wars, one to hit back at them, the other being an unrelated military adventure.
They won years ago. Few people have been killed, but your country is terrified of them and acts accordingly.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:4, Insightful)
A bigger threat to the idea of the Pirate Party in the US, or any like-minded party, is our ridiculous two-party system. It doesn't matter what you call it, no third party has a chance in the US because of the way the system is constructed.
Piratpartiet did decently in Sweden...
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
I am an adult. I can be responsible for my own interests. I recognize that what I want is not always what is best for me, and I act on that recognition through self-control. When I fail, I accept the responsibility.
Any group of men who thinks they know my interests better than I do can speak with me and try to convince me that this is so, but it is I who makes the final decision. Provisions decided in secret without public knowledge or consent will result in nothing but more lawlessness. Anyone who approves this agreement clearly shows that he does not represent me.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you sure? They passed the DMCA, without much fanfare.
Re:Both are terrorism (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can be terrorized and that is their intent then they are terrorists. You do not have to be killed for it to be terrorism.
Furthermore, the point of terrorism is that terrorists don't have the means to directly attack everyone, but instead have the means to directly attack anyone.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
They are trying (and getting away) with this crap so they can pull disgustingly immoral tricks like Disney is doing. I saw the most sickening book yesterday:
"Disney's Alice in Wonderland", based on the movie by Tim Burton and the screenplay by whomeverthefuck. No mention of Caroll whatsoever. This is your new future. I hope you've never been too fond of Eurasia...
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:been accused counts as a strike = easy DOS (Score:2, Insightful)
These people do not get cut off, people with this much power never do.
Vira with illegal payload won't do the job for these persons, they will pay, bribe, cajole, lawyer their way out of anything.
But hey, you've just had most of your family and neighbors locked up.
There's only one way out of this, publicity, publicity, publicity.
This needs to be blown up so big all over the news, that none of these people/organisations/corporation can hide anymore.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:2, Insightful)
Any group of men who thinks they know my interests better than I do can speak with me and try to convince me that this is so, but it is I who makes the final decision. Provisions decided in secret without public knowledge or consent will result in nothing but more lawlessness. Anyone who approves this agreement clearly shows that he does not represent me.
Well, good luck with that "making the final decision" when you have an administration official saying things like; "We tend to agree with Mao, that power comes mainly from the barrel of a gun." That doesn't bode well for the lifespan of anyone who gets in the way of their agendas.
They don't really care about you, a citizen, or what you want or even what's best for you or America (because people are too stupid to see how right *they*, as the elite, are). They have their own plans, and you don't even make it onto the bottom of the list. You and others like you who may disagree are obstacles to be silenced and defeated by whatever methods are the easiest and most expedient, as the ends justify the means.
The way things are trending around the world, it won't be long until a person will have more individual freedom in Russia or China than in America thanks to the Progressives in both the Republican and Democrat parties (McCain, Hillary, and Obama have all declared themselves to be Progressives). Get ready for the Progressive Oligarchy of America, delivered fresh to you each day from the barrel of a gun.
Strat
You HAVE a weak and ineffectual government. (Score:2, Insightful)
You HAVE a weak and ineffectual government. It has inherited a stack of strong in irresistible lobby group and ancillaries from the strong and effective (and completely and utterly corrupt) Bush administration.
The weak government you have is bowing down to what SEEMS to be a stronger force: the legacy of corporate whoring Republicans left behind.
What you need is a strong and effectual government WHO WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
Now that thanks to SCOTUS foreign corps and nationals can just openly buy any politician they want I expect the slide to be even quicker.
If it were that easy to buy public opinion, we'd all be drinking New Coke.
But a lot of people do seem to be drinking Bud Light.
Re:This is a MUCH bigger threat than terrorism. (Score:3, Insightful)
culture, religion, belief, freedoms, etc
yes.... they hate you for your freedom.
What's best would be to compare the US to other SIMILAR countries without a large and active military... are there any?
I know this game.
Any country which has less than a quarter the population of the US will not count because they're too small or insignificant.
the only countries which are that big are:
Bangladesh | Brazil | China | Egypt | Ethiopia | Germany | India | Indonesia | Japan | Mexico | Nigeria | Pakistan | Philippines | Russia | Vietnam
(15)
Any country which is not predominantly christian won't count because they're not american enough given that you dwell on Islamic terrorists and ignore all the other kinds.
Brazil | Ethiopia | Germany | Mexico | Philippines | Russia
(6)
Any country which doesn't have a high enough average enough average income will not be western enough for your taste.
Germany
(1)
And while germany spends a tiny fraction of that the US does on it's military and anti terrorism rocks it still spends quite a lot.
I can't find any attacks in 2009 which implies they're going better than the US on that score.
In looking up the deaths due to terrorists in other western countries I'm finding it hard to find any other western countries with or without large militarys which lose less people to peanut allergies and bee stings than they do to terrorism.
Despite what the news may tell you terrorists just aren't all that much of a threat.
All those billions of dollars being wasted on anti terrorist measures could save more lives if they were spent on cancer research or road safety... quite possibly even if terrorists actually manage to do the incredibly improbable and and get their hands on a small nuclear device... which they somehow didn't do even before 9/11 when nothing like as much money was being wasted on terrorist repellent rocks.