BSkyB Wins £709m Lawsuit Against HP-EDS 187
E5Rebel writes "In a massive legal case in the UK, HP-EDS has been found guilty of 'fraudulent misrepresentation' by their sales team when winning a major CRM project. Settlement could cost £200M out of an initial claim for £700M. HP's only relief was that parts of the claim were dismissed, but the core claim was upheld. HP is likely to appeal. Outsourcing will never be the same again. HP workers have been on strike against pay cuts last week; no doubt management will try and screw them further to pay for this debacle."
Overstated. (Score:3, Insightful)
TFA: "Nigel Roxburgh, research director at the National Outsourcing Association, previously told Computerworld UK that if the case is upheld in favour of BSkyB, "it could lead to a real scratching of heads, particularly among lawyers."
Stupid Ads in TFA (Score:2, Insightful)
Amanda Bucklow at mediation firm In Place Of Strife said that even “a long and extraordinary mediation process would have taken only a few days and cost a lot less” than the legal fees spent by both parties.
And now breaking news! Random person trying to sell you some services thinks you should buy their services!
SAP (Score:3, Insightful)
Somewhat off topic, but perhaps related to the topic:
Has anyone ever worked in a company where they had a SAP implementation where overall the users and management (and I don't mean snr management who are above it) are actually happy with the outcome?
Outsourcing suxors, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
AC disclosure: I work for BSKYB, but not in CRM ... thank f**k.
Yes, the CRM system has problems, and from a tech perspective I'd agree that it's not worth £48M (OMFG!). However, I think it's amazing that things got this far. If we're in a capitalist society then I also want this to be a meritocracy and I want someone in Sky to publicly take the blame for this 3rd party POS. Regardless of the internal or external software teams, it should never be allowed to degenerate to this level of incompetence.
Re:SAP (Score:5, Insightful)
There was a slashdot article awhile back about an SAP implementation at Waste Management that went bad.
Similar situation to this one.
I really think large companies buying these systems are going to start recording the sales presentations, burn them to DVD, and insist on including them in the contract.
That way the sales representations BECOME part of the whole agreement, and are actionable.
If EDS has to tell the truth it is dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Has anybody ever heard of (or better yet been involved with) an EDS project that went well.
Anyone?
EDS is characterized by: lots of promises, no delivery, never saw the experts present during negotiations again, lots of low GPA recent college grads doing 'work' they are not qualified for.
I don't know how EDS stays in business. Kickbacks to purchasing officers with no stake in the projects is my guess.
Interesting implications (Score:3, Insightful)
FTA it sounds like the salesmen lied and the contract didn't include the lies. The court found EDS liable for what the salesmen said (and prolifically emailed) rather than the signed contract. If that holds it's not outsourcing that will become difficult but selling many complex and high priced products. Each sales meeting could be a contract negotiation with legal implications as well as a demo or whatever. You sales guys might need to drag the lawyer to all your customer meetings going forward. Sales support would become a major pain as well.
Re:I'm confused (Score:3, Insightful)
Presumably they incurred costs as a result of EDS not providing what they were supposed to.
Sky and EDS - it couldn't happen to two nicer companies. With luck no-one will win except the lawyers.
Re:Outsourcing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No comment... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If EDS has to tell the truth it is dead. (Score:3, Insightful)
lots of promises, no delivery, never saw the experts present during negotiations again, lots of low GPA recent college grads doing 'work' they are not qualified for.
This hardly differentiates EDS from their competitors. :(
Re:If EDS has to tell the truth it is dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently you are not familiar with the Navy NMCI Contract with EDS. I haven't been following it lately (as in the last few years) but it had VERY overpriced systems on the contract and mostly hired people who didn't have much experience because they were cheap. That contract would keep even the worst managed company in gravy for quite a while. I don't know what most of the military guys thought about it but just ask any civilian employee for the Navy what they thought of NMCI and listen to the expletives fly.
I'm not sure how any company can sell computer software or services without lying, even unintentionally. Anything worth bidding on by EDS is going to be complicated enough to keep them from knowing what they really have for a month at least.
The worst part is if you're going to expect technology salesmen to tell the truth then you're going to eliminate at lot of material for the Dilbert comic strip, among others.
Re:Douche bag editoral summary (Score:3, Insightful)
When a fuckwit sales team promises the impossible they have given you license to not work.
The outcome is inevitable. As you state it's an 'impossible solution'.
Just stop working, look busy and focus on getting another job.
Remember who gains/loses if someone somehow implements the 'impossible solution'.
The sales maggot gains, his lies are now truth. His commission is now from a successful project. He will be telling new lies for the foreseeable future.
The developer loses, he worked his ass off to implement an 'impossible solution' and now has to support the monstrosity for the foreseeable future.
The client loses, sooner or later the impossible solution will fall over.
The out-sourcer wins, their scumbag methods work again. The client will be back for a fix.
When a sales maggot does this the project must be allowed to fail as quickly and publicly as possibly.
Re:No comment... (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me guess, you're exempt and don't get over-time. And the sales people are mostly commissioned-based, and their commission is not based on the completion (nor the success) of the project (but just on having a signed contract with the client).
If that's the case, and if you don't rise up, expect this kind of pattern of behavior to continue. I've seen sales people take down companies because they were chasing poorly structured commissions (instead of worrying about the viability and profitability of each deal they were making).
Re:Scope creep? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If EDS has to tell the truth it is dead. (Score:3, Insightful)
The old saw that seems applicable here: The difference between a software salesman and a used car salesman is that the used car salesman knows he's lying.