US DOJ Says Kindle In Classroom Hurts Blind Students 492
angry tapir writes "Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device doesn't give blind students equal access to information. Settlements with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland, Oregon, were announced Wednesday by the US Department of Justice. The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind had complained that use of the Kindle devices discriminates against students with vision problems."
Amazon should love this precedent (Score:5, Interesting)
your highest achievable standard.,.. (Score:5, Interesting)
...is the capability of the lowest common denominator.
Braille doesn't provide much access to those with no arms.
Limitation (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, let's limit EVERYONE because a select few can't use a new technology.
The blind have always needed special teaching tools (Braille, audio books, or someone to read for them), so this isn't like a step backward or anything.
I feel for the blind, and they should definitely be accommodated, but not using eBook readers where they could be beneficial to others is not a good idea.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Amazon should love this precedent (Score:3, Interesting)
But text-to-speech violates the rights of publishing companies who sell audiobooks for grossly inflated prices to people who like to "listen" to books while they are stuck in traffic every morning on their daily commute. It's therapeutic. Enabling text-to-speech would cause the publishers to sue.
It's a viscous cycle.
Take away everyones eyes! (Score:2, Interesting)
Clearly, the only way to be fair to the blind is to rip out everyone elses eyeballs so we're all equal. If no one can READ A BOOK or use a kindle than there will be no discrimination.
This is obviously a clear cut case of intentional discrimination against the blind, just like those evil bastards who invented the printing press.
Let me give you a hint. You're blind. You can not do the same things as people who aren't blind. It sucks, but thats just fucking reality. Stop expecting everyone else to cater to you. You make your own way in this world, start acting like you deserve a place in the world.
It could be a lot worse. If were were anything like ... oh ... every other living organism on the planet, the blind wouldn't live long enough to know what school ways, let alone bitch about not being able to use the device (kindle) that is replacing another device (traditional book) that you couldn't use either.
There is no discrimination, just some retards trying to get money for themselves by ranting about discrimination against a group of people. The only problem is, the thing doing the discrimination is nature and chaos, and they can't sue that.
So take away everyones eyes. Then we'll all support the blind better. We'll all be on a level FAIR playing field, and as a bonus, we'll never see another flash movie again. It makes total sense.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?). Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?
1: Sure e-books can be put into "braille". There are even a plethora of devices that'll do it, or just read teh darn thing aloud.
2: Braille books are EXPENSIVE. They have a far smaller audience, need thicker paper, usually can use only one side of the paper... and can't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else's books.
Given those two, the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it's a printed book that the blind cannot read, not a properly formatted e-book
Re:Limitation (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Take away everyones eyes! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Ebooks not the problem, kindle navigation is (Score:5, Interesting)
But yet the fact remains it is currently *more* accessible to the disabled than a regular textbook. So let's not have an improvement because we should hold out for an even better improvement?
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:2, Interesting)
Speaking as a legally blind person, when I was going through school if a large print version of a text or reading assignment wasn't readily available we used to strip the book binding and use a Xerox machine to enlarge the text page by page, rebind the old book, bind the enlarged version and then I'd be all set.
Schools aren't going to be doing much with the Kindle with all the DRM lock in etc...
Re:Ebooks not the problem, kindle navigation is (Score:2, Interesting)
No, it's the Blind people that aren't making the right choice of ebook reader.
Seriously, one book to fit them all? Kinda means that some portion will land up with a less than ideal solution doesn't it?
So if another company came out with an ebook reader that had good blind navigation but didn't use the patents that the kindle has then it probably wouldn't be as good a solution for the rest of the sighted users.
someone will lose as long as we look for the "good for ebverybody all the time or nothing" solution.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:4, Interesting)
Harrison Bergeron's world [wikipedia.org], are we there yet?
Re:Kindle lacks navigation for visually impaired (Score:1, Interesting)
The Kindle is a device that comes with no content. The e-books that are made available to students on the kindle can simply be put onto any computer --- given an open enough format. The people with visual impairments would then have any number of options that better address their accessibility issues than the Kindle.
Should there be a device that people with poor vision can navigate through? Of course, and I hope the market allows a company to make money with one. Should every device allow such accessibility? Possibly, but not necessarily at the expense of a less satisfying user experience for the vast majority of users.
Now, is it the responsibility of the university to provide all of their students access to the learning materials in a form that they can use? OF COURSE!!! That said, I see no reason why this needs to be in the form of a device that every student must use. People with different accessibility issues might be better served by different devices in many cases.
Re:Ebooks not the problem, kindle navigation is (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Let's take this to it's logical extreme (Score:3, Interesting)
so I am an old guy, and i have always been blind in one eye. sometimes it is a bother. but let us concentrate on the old part. a peer I know got significantly rich doing programming and he is I think fully or close to it blind. I figure the healthy should accomodate disabilities, but the disabled should not expect their lives to be fair, pretty much like the rest of us. What we all need is the possibility of success. but I have no sympathy for these universities. they get a lot of tax payer money and they can deal with public policy issues without getting sued.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:3, Interesting)
What about blind people who cannot speak? Personally, I don't think universities should be allowed to encourage devices except to the lowest common denominator: Helen Keller.
The solution becomes clear, then, and it's the Braille machine used by Whistler in the movie Sneakers [urbanhonking.com]. This, of course, is a completely different device as opposed to a variant of a viable e-book reader the rest of us use but with additional features. Therefore, this device is the only that should be allowed, and we bitches with all of our senses functioning should have some compassion and learn Braille already.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:3, Interesting)
Think about it. Audible, publishers, authors who sell the "audio performance" rights of their book separately from the printed rights, performers, publishers, there's a whole food chain making money off of books on tape, and its probably been a growth industry since the iPod, which makes it easier to stop/start/carry around a book on tape, plus downloading them is much more convenient than a whole stack of CDs or having to rip them to the PC.
I see their point, a bit, but I would challenge the books on tape industry to win by creating a *better product* than text-to-speech. I like a book on tape for a long car drive, but most presentations are REALLY lame and not much better than automation. Perhaps more inspired narration (when appropriate) and FX that makes the book on tape a richer experience would sell the product better against text to speech.
Crap like this proves two things, does one thing (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Proves that our government is full of idiots.
2. Proves that blind people are frakkin' blind.
Does one thing, destroys any good will people have toward the handicap. Frankly, I see this, and I want to cut all funding to blind people and shout at them "YOU'RE !@#$% BLIND!"
Look, our society does a lot for the handicap, perhaps we can do more, and I am all for doing more where and when it's feasible. But you have to accept a certain extent of your handicap. So you're blind and you can easily navigate your Kindle. It's not like you can walk into Barnes and Noble and read all the books either. Deal!
It's harsh, yes. But when you take our goodwill and slam it in our face, don't be surprised if you get tossed to the roadside.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:3, Interesting)
I am aware of the hollering, but as yet, from what I read, there is no court decision backing that up, and Amazon still has it enabled on most books. (Its now supposidly up to the publishers). Also hacks have already been leaked on how to turn it on even if the publisher disables it.
But doesn't that just make this another Vindictive Disabled advocacy stunt aided and abetted by the Federal Government?
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:3, Interesting)
I was going to make the Harrison Bergeron comment too - you beat me to it.
Next up: Mandatory headphones with gunshots going off in the ears of intelligent students to avoid discriminating the stupid.
Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. (Score:2, Interesting)
I am aware of the hollering, but as yet, from what I read, there is no court decision backing that up, and Amazon still has it enabled on most books. (Its now supposidly up to the publishers). Also hacks have already been leaked on how to turn it on even if the publisher disables it.
But doesn't that just make this another Vindictive Disabled advocacy stunt aided and abetted by the Federal Government?
I had a training session with a tedious name about these sorts of issues. Despite the tedious name, the company lawyer running the session discussed a lot of interesting court cases.
One of the things that came up was that disability discrimination cases tend to pivot on whether or not the plaintiff qualifies as a member of a protected class moreso than the reasonableness of the claim. The case he discussed involved twin sister airline pilots (seriously, what I just said is real [firechief.com]). They had severe vision problems, but were 20/20 while wearing glasses and United Air Lines had a policy to only hire pilots with natural 20/100 vision. They lost because the fact that they had non-handicapped vision while wearing glasses meant they weren't handicapped for the purpose of determining whether or not they got any protection under the law.
Basically the test for whether or not you're disabled is fairly steep, but if you do qualify, the other tests invoked in these cases after this test are easier for the plaintiff to satisfy.
Seriously though, why on earth wouldn't you hire the twin sister airline pilots. All you have to do is buy them some spare glasses and pencil in "twin sister airline pilots exempted" on your hiring policy. It's a total no-brainer.